Yourself! Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 So far, i have not understood this. In JO, Luck tells kyle to go on trail to get HIS (Kyle's) saber. So, I am assuming its the one from DFII, right? If so, why is it that in DFII, Jyles saber is green, however, in JO/JA his saber is blue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Fisher Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Well, it wasen't his, that was Yun's. Maybe he just decided against keeping a Sith lightsaber... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverhoodian Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Well, Kyle's first saber (green) was Qu Rahn's saber. Assuming you take the Light side ending in JK, Kyle then uses Yun's yellow lightsaber after Boc destroys his green one. Now this is where I'm a bit confused: Correct me if I'm wrong, (I've never played MOtS) but it looks like Kyle constructs an orange lightsaber in MOtS before temporarily falling to the Dark side. After Mara Jade brings Kyle back to the Light side, he gives his lightsaber to Luke Skywalker and vows never to use it again. My question is why is the blade blue when he goes back to get it in JO, or does he make a blue one before JO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 1. Kyle keeps having the focusing crystals of his lightsaber stolen by theives. 2. Kyle makes sabers, uses them for a while, and then auctions them off to make money for the Jedi Academy (before that he had a private stash). He still skims off the top sometimes. 3. Kyle drops his saber in the mud a lot and it shorts out continously. 4. Jawas. 5. He fights a lot of sith, and sometimes the saber gets chopped in half. 6. Kyle compulsively changes his lightsaber color every year or so. 7. Where'd he put the damned thing? 8. Luke asked if he could borrow one, but ended up losing it. 9. Corran used the 'learn by taking apart and destroying' method. Kyle was not happy. 10. Sometimes, Kyle gets angry and bashes the saber hilt on his knee (Note, that is how Dooku got his saber curved). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Fisher Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 My question is why is the blade blue when he goes back to get it in JO, or does he make a blue one before JO? From what I've read, it doesn't say anything about a blue one. Maybe it just went better with the Kyle model... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Yeah, thats something ive noticed.. the JK2 model doesnt look that good with any other saber color than blue (in my opinion) I think that kyle didnt want to keep yun's saber, or something happend to it. Then in JK2, luke just gave kyle that saber... kyle didnt have anything to do with the saber, he just needed one, and then luke gave him that one (unless of course kyle couldnt pass the test, then he couldnt have it) but then thinking about it more, luke says "your saber is..." he says YOUR.... maybe someone should make a SP mod about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Whats not to say kyle didnt make his blue saber after going through his initial stage of training at the yavin academy. Theres been a huge discussion at the force.net as to who were in the "jedi Praxeum" - namely the first 12 students luke trained in the new academy. Many agreed that kyle was one of these, and then left. The Jedi Academy Trilogy novels have been vague on outlining the whole 12.....(thus the debate) So Kyle comes to the academy to give training a go, makes his blue tube, but doesnt like the whole jedi lifestyle, so leaves it all behind.... I think that is what happenned. OR alternately, when he found himself in JO, he just pressed SHIFT and ~ sabercolor blue MTFBWYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow_Nest Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 http://www.thelightsaber.com/history1.htm will answer your question. just been updated. Lots of interesting infomation there. But beware, ep3 spoilers are also found in that website. EDIT: Page 2 in that link is the answer to your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverhoodian Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 Hmmmm, so Kyle's saber in MOtS was still Yun's saber? In that case, it's safe to assume he made his blue saber between MOtS and JO. The most plausible explanation is the argument that Kyle was one of the first 12 Jedi students at Luke's Jedi Academy, but left shortly thereafter. (Things must have been rough in the Jedi Academy's early days, as Corran Horn left the academy as well. But why is he a Jedi trainer in JA? Maybe he returned to the Academy after the events of I, Jedi.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iblis Reborn Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 thanx for the link Crow i had been to that page before but now its updated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bifford Posted November 15, 2003 Share Posted November 15, 2003 The game makers decided a blue color was nicer and truer to the movie spirit than a yellow saber, so they ignored continuity. Trying to speculate when and how his lightsaber became blue is pointless, because we're just making up stuff that the authors themselves never established. In this case, the best reaction is to shrug and wait until the writers give an official explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Hypothetical Scenario (put into the language the kids are using these days for clarity & hippness): Raven: D00d this JK s3ries r0x0rz! L3ts mak3 a s3qu3l! LA: Ok d00ds U do teh sekul. Raven: SWEET! (later...) LA: Oh btw d00ds King George rapped: G00d Guyz = blue/green/purple, BAd A$$'s = red. Mmkay? Raven: But..last game.... orange...?? ffs? LA: Talk to the hand 'cause teh face ain't listenin' pal Raven: Bummer d00d... (later...) Some Raven Dude: OK d00ds tey alr3ady did green & purple waz left? Other Raven Dudes: Blu3? Some Raven Dude: W3 th3r3 d00d!!!!!11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymon Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Once again Kurgan enlightens us mere mortals on the workings of the universe. Seriously guys, I bet Kurgan is right. The saber colors likely have nothing to do with story. Why do you need to justify something as trivial as saber colors with a very flimsy bit of story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Still it would have been nice. I just edited my cfg files (and kyle ai file in JA) so that he had orange and just ignored the inconsistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrie Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 The most plausible explanation is the argument that Kyle was one of the first 12 Jedi students at Luke's Jedi Academy, but left shortly thereafter. (Things must have been rough in the Jedi Academy's early days, as Corran Horn left the academy as well. But why is he a Jedi trainer in JA? Maybe he returned to the Academy after the events of I, Jedi.) Actually, that's not an argument, that's a fact. From Kyle Katarn's Entry from the New Essential Guide to Characters Shamed by his failure, Kyle Katarn enrolled in the first class of Luke Skywalker's Jedi Academy. After a brief stay, he turned his back on the Force, fearing that he might slip to the Dark Side again. He gave his lightsaber to Luke and let his Force skills atrophy. Although there is no mention made of Kyle's saber(this was written before Jedi Outcast was released), it is interesting to note that it says HIS lightsaber and not Yun's Lightsaber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLord60 Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Here's how I think of it nothing maters when it comes to JO/JA cause there like the prequals of the movies. I mean to say they suck compared to DFII. So it doesn't mater how he got a blue saber in the new ones. cause I don't think they will make it to to star wars data bases. But anyway blah blah he probably made a new one in a attempt to retrain with mara after recovering after the Drumond Kass mission in Mots. So after awhile in training to forget the ways of the sith he gave it all up and handed his new lightsaber to luke telling him he no longer wants to be involved in the Jedi ways. thats all I can think of if you get what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Like I said, Kyle runs into a lot of Sith. And Kurgan is probably right - its more of a 'Kyle's skin goes with blue' or 'what other color is left' thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLord60 Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Ok then what Kurgan said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 Originally posted by Burrie Actually, that's not an argument, that's a fact. From Kyle Katarn's Entry from the New Essential Guide to Characters Although there is no mention made of Kyle's saber(this was written before Jedi Outcast was released), it is interesting to note that it says HIS lightsaber and not Yun's Lightsaber. thx Burrie, I think that puts it beyond a doubt, Alotta these kids think EU starts and ends in the games.... as to kyle keeping yuns saber, maybe as a momento, but not to use, thats just not right... If you have the New Essential Guide to Characters, I'm Jealous ! Also, KURGAN chimed - put into the language the kids are using these days for clarity & hippness): kids these days ! I guess dyslexia is cool nowadays, when I was a kid, it was the "A Team" that was cool !! MTFBWYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bifford Posted November 16, 2003 Share Posted November 16, 2003 In the Star Wars d20 pen-and-paper roleplaying game, a Jedi tends to fight better with a lightsaber of his own construction (possibly because of some mystical attunement with the Force crystal within). I don't know whether this is taken from the EU, but it certainly gives any Jedi good reason to eventually construct his own lightsaber; if this wasn't the case, the Old Order would probably have had a special division of specialised "Jedi blacksmiths" who constructed lightsabers for everyone else (like with samurai swords). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Originally posted by Bifford I don't know whether this is taken from the EU, but it certainly gives any Jedi good reason to eventually construct his own lightsaber it is part of jedi training, be it in the old or new order to eventually construct your own saber... there are of course training sabers in the interim, which the cute little padawans have in AOTC.... I cant exactly remember how Luke figured his green saber out. I do remember reading *somewhere in the EU ether* that within anakins blue saber(he was using in ANH/ESB), were plans for saber construction as well as the co-ordinates for dagobah..... as for JA, it would be great to have had some backstory about how exactly jaden figured out his/hers..... MTFBWYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLord60 Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Luke was able to construct his own by looking at some of obi wans journal entries and plans obi wan left in his hut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Yeah it's become something of a "brain bug" that building a lightsaber is a "rite of passage" for Jedi and that it requires "use of the force" to build it. We see no evidence for that in the canon films at all except for a throw away line by Vader in ROTJ "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber, your skills are complete." Just look at how many lightsabers the Jedi go through in the prequels. Sure I suppose the comparison is with samurai swords and the whole mystique behind them, but seriously... I prefer to interpret it in light of another quote (yes it comes from Highlander 4, so sue me!): "Jin Ke: Honor's not in a weapon, it's in the man." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan Yeah it's become something of a "brain bug" that building a lightsaber is a "rite of passage" for Jedi and that it requires "use of the force" to build it. We see no evidence for that in the canon films at all except for a throw away line by Vader in ROTJ "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber, your skills are complete." Mr K - you love popping "brain bug" into these discussions dont you... and you arent starting that 'canon = films' fiasco are you.... numerous EU sources have stated a jedi being able to build a saber is one of the defining elements of being a jedi. There can be no doubt though, that the lightsaber is *VERY* important to the jedi, thus being able to build one would be equally as important. There is no film, nor EU reference to sabers being built by a 'thrid party' Seeing you only accept first level canon(films) Mr K : Ep 2 AOTC : Obi Wan to anakin (chastising him on nearly losing his lightsaber, again) "This weapon is your life" Ep 1 TPM : Little Ani to Qui-Gon "You're a jedi arent you....I can tell by your laserword" Qui Gon replies "how do you know that i didnt kill a jedi for it" (might not be word for word but thats pretty much what was said...) if a lightsaber was so easy to come by, every merc and his poodle would be flashin em around. It doesnt seem to be as easy as going to the "Saber Swapmeet" and gettin one !! just because a saber might be lost or destroyed(even on a frequent basis) it doesnt mean they are any less special to their creator/owner..... as for Highlander 4 .... "good grief" (Charlie Brown style)... I cant believe you have admitted to watching that crap smeared on celluloid...... what were you thinking man !!! MTFBWYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Mr K - you love popping "brain bug" into these discussions dont you... When you're dealing with a franchise as big as Star Wars you can't help it! and you arent starting that 'canon = films' fiasco are you.... Well in case you were wondering the films ARE canon, this is LucasFilm's official policy. Sure, the rest of the officially liscensed (& Non-Infinities) stuff might be part of the "official continuity" but if it contradicts the films.... the films are "right," not the contradicting source, sorry. Don't blame me, I didn't make those "rules." numerous EU sources have stated a jedi being able to build a saber is one of the defining elements of being a jedi. There can be no doubt though, that the lightsaber is *VERY* important to the jedi, thus being able to build one would be equally as important. There is no film, nor EU reference to sabers being built by a 'thrid party' So are we to assume that Yoda built all those lightsabers for the younglings (who appear not to be a day over 10 years old each) in AOTC? Is making your second lightsaber as big a "defining moment" as your first? Which comes first.. being a Jedi or building a lightsaber? Chicken vs. Egg? From watching the films I got the distinct impression that "being a Jedi" was "a hard life" and meant sacrifice and following a code (or "your feelings" if that code no longer existed in the case of the post-Order days). Putting it all down to the construction of a weapon kind of diminishes the whole thing doesn't it? If you were to ask me, making the weapon would be the FIRST THING (or one of the first things) not the fulfillment of the Jedi's career. That doesn't mean it isn't special. It's like getting your first car or your first job or going on your first date, etc. You'll probably attach sentiment to it and remember it, but it's not the "end" of something to most people, only the beginning of a (hopefully) successful journey through adulthood. Seeing you only accept first level canon(films) Mr K : I never said that. I say that I agree with LF's canon policy, that the films are the "Highest canon" and contradicting sources don't override them, no matter how "official" they otherwise be. So the EU writing still has value as far as continuity is concerned.. from a certain point of view. ; ) Ep 2 AOTC : Obi Wan to anakin (chastising him on nearly losing his lightsaber, again) "This weapon is your life" No problem there. We know that Obi-Wan has gone through a few lightsabers in his time, and Anakin ends up doing the same. Maybe the first one he builds as a little kid is still special (even if he doesn't have it anymore)? I don't see the contradiction. As this relates to Kyle it could work lots of different ways. If you believe that building a saber is the defining moment you have Kyle with the saber he built in MotS. Does he keep it and give it to Luke? Or does he give that one up, build another one and then give THAT one to Luke? I figure it would seem more significant if he gave the Orange one up, since he "doesn't deserve it" because he almost used it to kill a friend. Thus "getting it back" has more symbolic presence (well to me, leave that up to the storyteller). ; ) Ep 1 TPM : Little Ani to Qui-Gon "You're a jedi arent you....I can tell by your laserword" No problem here either. No reference is made to it being a saber he built or that it was his first one, only that he has a lightsaber (the kid gets the name wrong of course). It would be akin to a modern child saying "You're a policeman aren't you... I can tell by your shiney medal (badge)." Qui Gon replies "how do you know that i didnt kill a jedi for it" (might not be word for word but thats pretty much what was said...) if a lightsaber was so easy to come by, every merc and his poodle would be flashin em around. It doesnt seem to be as easy as going to the "Saber Swapmeet" and gettin one !! Maybe lightsabers in the Republic are regulated, so that only Jedi are allowed to legally carry them, much like certain assault weapons in the United States with regards to military and police. And you and I both know that Jedi aren't the only ones to carry lightsabers. Ever hear of some guys calling themselves "the Sith"? Anakin is a young slave with no father living on a backwater planet, his head full of stories told to him by crusty old spacers, I wouldn't expect him to get all the facts right. Anyway, the idea that "every merc and his poodle would be flashin em" don't get too carried away yet. Heck, in the EU Aurra Sing supposedly has a huge collection of lightsabers, and she's force sensitive (but apparently not a Jedi or Sith). Heh.. anyway, I digress. The point is that the lightsaber is a dangerous weapon. Somebody who doesn't know what they're doing may cut off their own arm or something. Plus there's the fact that in the age of blasters and such a lightsaber user would need "jedi like reflexes" to be any good. For example, how many swordsmen do you see in the modern world take out a bunch of guys with machineguns? None, because the swords guy wouldn't get two feet before he was mowed down. So giving a lightsaber to somebody without the skills to block projectiles (our pull his enemy's guns away and run circles around them, etc) is suicidal. Might as well have him carry a big neon sign saying "Easy Target!" Even the EU supports this. People with lightsabers but no force training generally suck and don't last long in combat, period. We saw Han Solo use a saber, but only to cut open a Taun Taun to save his buddy from dying of exposure. But if you put him in combat, I bet you anything he'd get fragged in no time. just because a saber might be lost or destroyed(even on a frequent basis) it doesnt mean they are any less special to their creator/owner..... Of course not. The "brain bug" I was speaking of wasn't that Jedi use lightsabers or that lightsabers aren't "special" but rather that building a lightsaber is something "only a Jedi" can do and it requires mastery of the Force.... or the logical leap that building a lightsaber MAKES one a Jedi. We have no information from the movies when Jedi first build their lightsabers (we only have Luke building his off screen when he's in his 20's or so, an atypical Jedi living 20+ years after the collapse of the Order with relatively little professional guidance). However, putting aside what we think we know from certain EU sources, why couldn't we speculate that they simply have weaponsmiths that build lightsabers for a living for the Jedi that use them? Did every Samurai build their own sword (and the act of making the sword proved he was a samurai)? Somebody fill me in 'cause I'm not an expert on Medieval Japan. Just curious for comparison's sake. Or how about this... is the test of a Special Forces officer building his own sidearm? Or a policeman, is building his first pistol the defining moment of his career? Granted, these may not be perfect examples, but if we're going to compare it to something, how do those stack up? as for Highlander 4 .... "good grief" (Charlie Brown style)... I cant believe you have admitted to watching that crap smeared on celluloid...... what were you thinking man !!! I own it on DVD. Wasn't nearly as good as the first or second ones, but I still enjoyed it. Call me a fan. ; ) MTFBWYA And Also With You...* *imagine my avatar saying that to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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