Alegis Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Your vision of honor servers is this; just an IRC room. nothing more. Most clanmembers etc actually get to know each other better and use the server indeed as a communication program, and duel. People like to do this because i've asked many and many and they all say they bought this game for the duelling with the saber and all. The reason JA is not like UT is because the melee weapon is actually a damn good weapon, in other games you'd spawn with a knife or a straw (or nothing at all). This melee weapon called lightsaber has a big past witht he movie and all...if you see people who just watched a star wars movie for the first time they're slicing imaginary lightsabers the next days I can't see how honor servers destroyed all the l4m3r servers (I don't think they're lamers if you use guns and all, i'll just call this group l4m3rs for simplicity) I mean if there were more l4m3r than honor, how could honor have won if those l4m3rs server didn't want honor? same goes if they were equal in count. people just like to chat a bit and duel and that stuff in this game, it's unique in the jediknight series. If something destroys a community I understand by that there are NO servers, in your eyes the community is destroyed because all the l4m3r servers turned to the dark side. I like playing on guns servers and duelling on honor servers, i'd say one cannot go without the other. I also like your chopshop servers with increased saber dmg+instagib, it's a great diversity in gameplay. Oh well I'll back off here now and leave you all since i'm not up ATM for any discussions and defintely not these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Originally posted by Alegis Gensan I don't think 2% is a lot, as you just said. Why were most servers honor? Why? Because the ppl that favored that were in majority, not the ones that only use binds to chat and 24/7 play; (*) so you don't have to put an act together that there is a little pest somewhere that needs to be terminated. (*)->only bit of personal opinion in this post, I didn't say I was for honor or not, which isn't the meaning of this post, it's that you're trying to alienate a majority. People host honor coded server, you didn't pay for those so why are you complaining, they're not yours and you don't have any right of them. since the ones that share your opinion here are with many, and you guys have lists of servers where you can play w/o all this honour stuff, why complain. You did NOT pay for them, and you're not forced to join them. Sure I agree it's fun with many servers with the settings you want, but those servers are not yours and why put actions and all this stuff against them. you can't akways get what you want I couldn't have said it any better myself. Now I deserve that cookie you promised in your signature. Originally posted by Master William You have no idea how frustrating the job of an admin is... You finally manage to get this guy who just got the game to talk (Nexus: "Press Y button chat") with you, and learn him the rules of our server... It did work out... But then after I learned him the rules, some other guy who I had talked to 10 times just kept breaking the rules. So basically, many people were breaking rules everywhere, and it's too hard to keep track on people... I feel your pain, Master William. Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop But I think you should leave those people alone. Let them be. You are wasting your time if you think you are going to change any minds that way. Sounds good to me. Originally posted by AxVegetA Do whatever the **** u want to have fun, as simple as that. No, see, wrong. Because you are taking away other people's fun. And you have no right to do that. Infact, you have no right to join a multiplayer server. Multiplayer servers are a priviledge, NOT a right. Your problem is, you think that you have a right to join a server and play how you like to. Instead of how everyone else in the server likes to play. BTW, AxVegeta we were having some fun with you at the JK3Files server. You are one funny person. And since you keep coming back after we take the fun out of your game it just shows how much you lack intellegence. You can't get the hint to STAY OUT. That's what a ban means: STAY OUT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExcelsioN Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Another 'laming' thread... Here's what I do: Never join some server that you've never heard of before, join decent servers that you hear about on forums like Amidala's Chop Shop server. Man that server kicks @$$! LEC or RAVEN need to host their own servers (like EA do with BF). Official servers are always the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Originally posted by Alegis Gensan Your vision of honor servers is this; just an IRC room. nothing more. Most clanmembers etc actually get to know each other better and use the server indeed as a communication program, and duel. So in other words, by your own description, it's an IRC room with occasional dueling. Wow, big difference. Originally posted by Alegis Gensan People like to do this because i've asked many and many and they all say they bought this game for the duelling with the saber and all. The reason JA is not like UT is because the melee weapon is actually a damn good weapon, in other games you'd spawn with a knife or a straw (or nothing at all). This melee weapon called lightsaber has a big past witht he movie and all...if you see people who just watched a star wars movie for the first time they're slicing imaginary lightsabers the next days Duh, tell me something I don't know. Why do you think I increased lightsaber damage and Force regeneration speed? To enhance the two things that make this game unique, and to make a lightsaber-armed Jedi, with the Force as his ally, a most formidable opponent. What does that have to do with saber down = peace and amslapping kids around? Originally posted by Alegis Gensan I can't see how honor servers destroyed all the l4m3r servers (I don't think they're lamers if you use guns and all, i'll just call this group l4m3rs for simplicity) I mean if there were more l4m3r than honor, how could honor have won if those l4m3rs server didn't want honor? Since you clearly didn't understand or pay attention the first time, I'll repeat myself: Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop I already explained how I think the "honor" players became the majority in Jedi Outcast here. It's not because "honor codes" are "more popular" or "better", it's three things: [*]They took advantage of the naivete and susceptibilty to peer pressure of new players and brainwashed\initimidated\seduced them into the honor camp. [*]"Honor" players tend to spread like missionaries preaching a false religion, invading and infesting other servers [*]The player abuse from abusive admins so common at "honor" servers simply drove a lot of players away to other games (UT2003, RTCW, etc.) where they didn't have to deal with immature abusive "honor" admins and their power trips [/list=1] I have only two objections to "honor servers": [*]Most of the player abuse by abusive admins that drives players out of the game and kills the community occurs on "honor servers". I have seen it with my own eyes. Read the "laming" threads in this forum and the Jedi Outcast forum and you'll see that player abuse, even though I am sure it never, ever, ever happens on your favorite server, happens a lot on "honor" servers [*]"Honor" servers serve as breeding grounds\indoctrination camps for honor missionaries who try to spread their false religion to other servers by whining and peer-pressuring other players, often with a lot of name-calling and profanity (not very honorable behavior if you ask me) [/list=1] If it wasn't for that, I couldn't care less what people do on those servers. Actually, I still don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllKyNeSlll Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Grendal_p= the new UJ of jk3? amidala do you ever play on your server? what is your name if you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 "Laming" is a psychological phenomena.. a state of mind. It's the victimhood assumed in the head of the person running the server or joining the server that somehow the manner in which they were killed/are losing is "unfair" and that they deserve another chance, regardless of how much their own behavior put them into the situation to begin with and regardless of how adversely their behavior may be affecting others on the same server. It's a rather self-centered mentality when you think about it, because it assumes that the whole game must stop until they are finally "ready" to play and by their rules, as they alone interpret and define them (over and above the rules built into the game itself as intended by the designers). Often this attitude is accompanied by a desire to "punish" those who they percieve as having victimized them (ie: "the lamer"). Thus it can lead to behaviors like call-vote kick (towards the percieved "Lamer"), kickban, amslap/sleep/slay, etc. "Laming" is actually merely playing the game as it was designed to be played... ie: killing enemy players to score points, towards the goal of attempting to win the match/round. Calling people "Lamers" is simply a continuing phenomena from the very earliest days of online gaming, essentially a display of poor sportsmanship (the "sore loser" mentality... whom will blame anything for their losing: the map design, the weapons balance, lag, their hardware, the weather... in short, anything except their own lack of skill). In the JK2 and JA communities this persecution complex... shall we call it "Lamephobia" (irrational fear of "lamers")... has been fueled, inspired and supported by the spread of the "honor codes" (philosophies that strictly define most anything short of one on one saber duels combined with bowing rituals beforehand and usually restricted force and while not chatting or with their saber off is "dishonorable" and therefore "lame") and "admin mods" (game modifications that add "administration" features, sadly many of which also include features that allow an admin to "cheat" by killing random players at the touch of a button, making their weapons/powers disappear, teleporting them around the map or rendering their opponents unable to move, while making their own player invincible or more powerful). This sad development has left a bad taste in the mouths of hundreds (if not thousands) of players, who can't play the game as it was designed to be played on one out of every 2 servers they join without being whined at and called names ("lamer," "n00b" or harsher things inappropriate in mixed company). Possible Solutions: Support servers that shun honor codes and abusive admin mods. Send your (constructive) criticism to the authors of abusive admin mods and abusive admins, and voice your disagreement (in public debate) with those who promote honor codes. Host your own server and don't stoop to their level. Encourage others to do the same! If you make an admin mod, don't put in abusive commands and keep your mod closed source, so that some "individual" can't add abusive commands to it and ruin it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Originally posted by lllKyNeSlll Grendal_p= the new UJ of jk3? amidala do you ever play on your server? what is your name if you do? I sometimes go to my JK2 server to play Holocron, Jedimaster, or CTF. I usually play under different common names like "Padawan". Recently I was "Lando" and "Neo the One". If I'm leading in Jedimaster or Holocron, I'll change my name to Admin Amidala if I'm about to win (I'm vain). I prefer to be anonymous so I can see what really goes on. Also, if I play under my "real" name everybody heads for me so they can kill the admin, like it's that hard and something to brag about, LOL. I am way over my time budget for this game activity, and it is already taking too much time away from other things I should be doing, so I can either spend my time running servers, which I am good at and which benefits many people, or I can stop running servers so I have more time to play, which I am so-so at and which would benefit only me. So I have played only one full game on my Jedi Academy servers (and somehow won). I hope to have time to play the single-player game (haven't yet), then bots to learn the maps, then dueling and other servers to gain experience, then finally my own servers. But I probably never will. But I'm having fun anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllKyNeSlll Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Can i smurf you and let them come at me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Originally posted by lllKyNeSlll Grendal_p= the new UJ of jk3? hahah, you know one of these days I'm going to start making demos again. All I have been doing is hanging out in screed's server messing with people, I need to start pubbing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Great thread. If "honor nubs" restricted themselves to ganging up on people rather than vote kicking or getting the admin to ban/amslap people... the community would be a lot more fun place. PS: And I thought *I* was hardcore taking a month to beat the SP campaign.. ; ) (well technically I still have yet to finish it on Dark Side, but still...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExcelsioN Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop [*]"Honor" servers serve as breeding grounds\indoctrination camps for honor missionaries who try to spread their false religion to other servers by whining and peer-pressuring other players, often with a lot of name-calling and profanity (not very honorable behavior if you ask me) I remember the time when some honour player joined chop shop. About 5 minutes after he joined, he couldn't understand why he was getting 'lamed' so to speak. He got so frustrated after he was taunting and his head chopped off from behind. (that was a classic ). Then he left calling us all laming gay n00bs. Or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Side Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I still dont understand why people even care if they got chat killed-saber down killed, i mean cmon you spawn again and u can go back to your IRC mentality,the guy that just killed u while u were typing know he didnt own you why take it so badly then? Respect?...if it FFA then it a freaking FFA,you kill to get ur icon on top of the game screen,no matter what it not disrespectsdlfjfullable(w/e my frenglish pwnz u all)and if ur mad about the guy that just type killed u just go and chase him down if he ownz u......he ownz u end of story hes better and your not why would u even care?...it not like competition is hella important point into jka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I think it's because they have VERY FRAGILE EGOS. They want to "look cool" in front of their "friends" (or at least in front of a few complete strangers on an online server not using their real name... go figure). If they die, it's them losing face, so they need an excuse... ie: you were cheating/scripting or somehow breaking the rules, there was lag, the game is unbalanced, they weren't "really ready" (ie: you sucker punched them in the back or something), etc. They can't admit that when they got killed it was either through their own incompetence, or else they simply got "owned" by a superior player. Thus the excuses and the "honor" system to boost their ego. I've had people explain it to me that it's about "showing respect to the other people playing the game with you." Ie: they're not "role playing" being a Jedi, but rather saying "Hey there Bill Smith playing Jedi Academy with me, I respect you." That is, all the bowing and honor talk, etc. The only trouble is, even if I assume that respect is automatic and not earned (ie: bow and respect everyone, no matter how crappy a player they are or how informal the setting), the BEHAVIOR of the so-called "honor" believers is anything BUT honorable. These are the guys who are the first to flame and use profanity, the first to callvote kick/whine to the admin to kick the "lamer." Is acting like a tattle-tail, whining like a baby and taking a "I'm taking my toys and going home!" attitude a show of respect or honor? More like the exact opposite. Maybe all this time I'm really justified by laughing in the face of their so-called "honor" because they don't even know what the word means. At the very least, they don't practice what they preach. The great paradox is that the honor system seems designed to eliminate competition... that is to make winning not a goal, but rather "playing the game" (dueling) is the end all-be all. It's like "Role playing." It's doing the stuff that's fun, not winning or losing. But then they turn around and anything that makes them lose becomes something they whine and moan about and try to get revenge on you for. If winning doesn't matter to them, why do they get upset? They treat it as a sleight on their "honor." They take it PERSONALLY and thus it's no longer a game for them, but a test of their manhood, and the only way for them to regain their honor is to get you banned from the server. Here and I thought "honorable warriors" LIKED to get defeated by superior skill. Guess not. If they were truly honorable they would suck it up when they make a mistake and just keep playing. Let them "right the wrong" by being a better player and SHOWING their skill, rather than trying to disqualify their opponents. What a cowardly way out... But I guess logic doesn't really enter into their thinking. I still think it's all about saving face, and trying to make them "the star" no matter how ridiculous the situation. A quicker way to sum it all up is that they are just sore losers, and so they devise a scheme to make "losing" for them logically impossible (make excuses, remove superior opponents from the game, etc). I'm just trying to understand the psychology of it here... But if somebody wants to honor ME in Jedi Academy, they can do so by playing the game and trying their darndest to beat me, holding nothing back (short of actual cheating of course). THAT will earn my respect. And if they want to say "gg" afterward (and know they mean it with all the effort they put into the game), that's a lot more meaningful to me than all the honor BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExcelsioN Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 To be honest, I think the honour code would work if it was used rightly. If the honourists (or whatever they're called) actually got on with some fighting, then I wouldn't mind it. Actually, it makes the game more civilised, unlike something like UT2k3. Then comes along all the admin abuse, and this is where I go against it. They abuse their position. But I won't go and kill them all, even if they are just standing around talking. I'll go join Chop Shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawBag™ Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Originally posted by Excelsion To be honest, I think the honour code would work if it was used rightly. If the honourists (or whatever they're called) actually got on with some fighting, then I wouldn't mind it. Actually, it makes the game more civilised, unlike something like UT2k3. Those h0n0rz suxxorz n00bz whatevers should simply be left alone. Don't encourage them. You should be patient and find a server to your liking. Although a few can crop up on any server. But I don't think "honor code" can ever be used. Wait a sec, it definetely can't be used. Originally posted by Excelsion Then comes along all the admin abuse, and this is where I go against it. They abuse their position. Yes, but I don't think that will ever stop. A bit like giving a juvenile a "Bruce Almighty" Originally posted by Excelsion But I won't go and kill them all, even if they are just standing around talking. I'll go join Chop Shop. Quite right - like I said, if you find a server you enjoy, stick with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupid Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 I got called a lamer for using force drain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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