T7nowhere Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by Doom_Dealer i say realease it when it has atleast been ironed out a little. I say Release it NOW! regardless of any errors or bugs. There are many competent people here, one in paticular is cchargin he has put quite a bit of effort into this problem and he will most likely have valuable insight into the model formatt. This situation feels very familiar and I want the question of whether or not there is a model comp/decomp resolved asap. I for one hope there is such a thing ready to DL, but I am extremely skeptical of this whole situation. Another point that I find incredibly disturbing is the with holding of valuable information that the KotOR modding community has needed sinse the beginning. Never sinse I started posting on this Forum has any information or knowledge of modding Kotor been kept secret from the rest of the community. It has been quite the contrary many Holowan Users go to great lengths to help others that are just starting out. For some of the best modders in this community this is their first time attempting to mod any game and so they depend on the knowledge and information that has been gathered here and the skill of holowan users, it is vital that this continue or this forum will degrade. I urge all holowan users to contribute in anyway that they can to futher improve this forum. To with hold knowledge, information and data from the rest of the KotOR modding community, to never give back to the knowledge base and To only leech off the hard work of others is abhorrent and must not happen. Some may read this post as a little harsh ifso then fine. I have in my time spent @ this forum seen many people post about the great mods that will be made and time and agian all it ever amounts to is many dissapointed people and only further degrades the reputation of this Forum. Holowan Laboratories IS THEE place to come for Star Wars: Kights of the Old Republic mods and to learn how to mod this fun game. Lets keep it this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 See, see Doom_Dealer knows what I'm talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom_Dealer Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 ok T7 youve changed my mind Release what you have now!!! p.s. just to clear it up i wasnt keeping it secret, i was the one who started wpushing for it to be released --edit-- when can we get hold of it??? i want to test my triple bladed battle axe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Although I believe that patience is a virtue. I am going to have to agree with T7. I too am becoming skeptical of this whole model compiler/decompiler thing. I am new to modding, this is the first game I've attempted to mod even if it is just lightsabers for me at the moment, hell this is actually only the second PC game I've ever owned the first being Star Wars Rebel Assault 2. Anyway without the help of the talented people who gather here with the common goal of modding this game I still wouldn't even know what a mod is much less what a .uti or .mdl or .txi file is. All I'm saying is that I believe that this is a community. A community of people who share a common interest. We all feed off of each other and we all pass our own skills on to each other. That is how a community grows. I mean just imagine what we could do if it were possible to put all of us in one room together working on one project the outcome would be incredible. Anyway thats my two cents. Patience is a virtue, but Teamwork and Cooperation should be held above Patience. Mav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackJJackal Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 T7Nowhere, I do not feel as you have come off harsh in any way, and indeed any frustration you may feel is justified no doubt about it. I would however like to ask that you be understanding. I believe that this has cast a very unpleasant, and unfitting light upon the initial intentions of MGNail and all those under the AE team. I do not with full honesty believe it was ever a full intention by MGNail or any other member of the AE team to with-hold this no doubt incredible discovery from anyone here who belongs to this incredible community of gifted and talented individuals. I believe that it was more an attempt to get the full teams oppinion. Human error and emotion is the greatest complication known to man, and if underestimated it can easily destroy even the most well oiled machines. And so I see wisdom behind placing it to a vote as to whether the model editor would be released to the public, Not in the sense that many will interpret it as. That being "Let's keep this cool thing to ourselves and then we will be the only ones who have it and we will be better than everyone else" However I believe as stated this was more of a "We all know we want to release this to the public, but before someone goes ahead of the team, why not give them the chance to say yes to it so it is done as a team effort and not the working and to the glorification of one man." Therefore I must ask again, that not only you T7Nowhere, but all here within this community understand what I sincerely believe was the true intention behind this, that it was simply an effort to have the full team supporting this and make sure that everyone thought it was ready to be released, In the world of computers releasing a product that halfway works can very readily be met with hostility and distrust. True, Very true that by appearing to be holding this editor to ourselves it has created distrust, however the greater of two evils in my mind would have been to have released this much anticipated editor, and it not work at all. For any misunderstandings in this I apologise to everyone here, as I assure you all it was not the intent of anyone to seem secretive in the least bit. And as I said I hope that Everyone will merely have the patience to understand that though this may seem one way, it truly is not. This of course is merely my oppinion, taken or left is up to the reader thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwaz Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 we all appreciate the work that you have done in making this editor and im sure its great. But it does not matter if there is just a few bugs on it, just release it as a beta tesy. I have not had any experience on modding KOTOR but i have modded a few other sw games and would love this tool to start me off. Please release this as soon as possible because wonderful mods will come out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_ToMeR Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 If you don't release it, so post spme PIC of some new model... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom_Dealer Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 to be fair JackJJackel, it actually was the intention not to release it until the mod was finished. It was only when i started pushing for it to be released that anyone even considered making it public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackJJackal Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Oh, No I am not the man who cracked the code by far, I am not quite that talented. I am merely a writer for the AE team who does not want the AE team to recieve Much undue hostility over a misunderstanding, it was merely my intention to express to everyone that the team was not pulling the preverbial wool over anyones eyes. I am sure they will be ready to release it very soon, I do understand everyone's anxiousness in seeing if it is actually what it is stated as being, Though I assure you that someone who is better informed than I will more than likely be updating everyone soon, and, or, posting the link to download it. As of yet, it is to my belief that it is being tested on a few things to see how well it works. All that I can do is ask that everyone be patient, and know that if it works as well as expected then it will be presented here for all of you. And to once again assure everyone that nothing is being with held from this community, I am in absolute agreement that this community does rely on everyone contributing. Doom Dealer: I am sorry, however Many people pressed for it to be released immediately not solely you. There was as I stated above, a misunderstanding of words where somehow one thing was translated into another which was not fully accurate, this was cleared up by MGNail, I may be misinterpreting your purpose here, Doom, Or, maybe I am misinterpreting your intention in this statement I am not sure, however I once again will assure everyone that the majority of this is nothing more than a misunderstanding of meaning and intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth333 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 I second what you said t7. Not much to add here. I don't see a reason why the whole thing should remain secret, even unfinished. It'S not like the release of a game to the general public, it's the release of a tool to a small modding community who could help improve and develop the tools. It would be for the benefit of all if this guy and cchargin could collaborate. Let's not forget that cchargin gave us something more than words: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128571 I hope cchargins continues his good work on it despite the recent threads saying that the format has been fully cracked and that models can be exported and imported in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Tetra Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 I would add that I am of the opinion that if you have such a tool or specs for the model format, release them in whatever state they exist initially and continue to do so as new discoveries and bug fixes are done. If I waited until Kotor Tool had all of the features I wanted (not even including the extra requested ones) and they were all 99% bug-free, there wouldn't be a Kotor Tool. I made the initial release in a somewhat usable state and with feedback from folks like T7nowhere, Tk102, GK and Shimaon, it has improved and become somewhat useful. Even with 23 years of programming under my belt, there's always room for improvement. Just because it isn't perfect doesn't mean there isn't someone who might benefit from it. (and yes, I realize I've been coding non-academically before some of you were born ) To paraphrase the words of one of my wise co-workers: "The software can be either Perfect or Done; which would you like?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxss Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 I guess I've picked the short-straw when it comes to this particular thread (opinion orientated) however I wish to say this. No offense to you Jackal, but you can exercise that seemingly vast vocabulary of yours to your hearts desire, but (Surprise surprise) MgNalis has produced nothing, and tempted our community yet again with 'golden apple' of the contemporary KOTOR modding community, model cracking. Perhaps you are foreign of MgNalis's history of deceit and half-truths. This is not the first time, nor will it be the last sadly I assume, that he promises yet does not deliver. In previous months, he promised an abundance of ‘profound’, in an inconceivably short time. He claimed they were ‘on his other computer’ with no way of accessing them for weeks, perhaps even months. The KOTOR community (majority) forgot about such promises, and self proclaimed mods. I know some of our vigilantes have not (Darth333, T7, tk102, Fred Tetra, etc.) while I have contributed next to nothing to our KOTOR community, at least I don’t claim to harbor such incredible mods, and distribute nothing to the community who extended themselves to all, modders an non alike, with their own tools. Where would your ‘modding team’ be without Fred Tetra’s KOTOR tools? Without Tk102’s save game editor? Without T7’s knowledge and mods? (Sorry if I am specifically forgetting an editor created by you, T7) You withhold information and mods you would not have been able to create without the help of this community, from this community. That disturbs me. The Facts: 1. MgNalis has produced none of his acclaimed mods to the community, ever. 2. MgNalis has offered no proof of such mods minus the ‘Galaxy Forge’ screen shots (don’t even get me started on those) 3. For such a ‘gifted’ self-proclaimed modder, MgNalis has shown no real evidence of modding talent, yet rather seems to leech of the skill of others. (Ex: Everyone that contributed to his ‘vision’ of the Galaxy forge, which has been forgotten, again) 4. MgNalis has yet to finish one (self proclaimed) project before beginning another one. 5. MgNalis has offered no screen shots. Darth, you’re a lawyer, I’m studying law… What do YOU think? Does he have a case? I certainly believe not. No flame intended, but I’m sick of this… as I believe many members of our community are already. I have dubbed MgNalis the ‘Messiah of fallacies’… continue to follow him, you will receive his vision, and nothing else. Should MgNalis produce this model editor, consider this post ‘cheerfully withdrawn’… until then, the facts stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Atris* Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by xxss I guess I've picked the short-straw when it comes to this particular thread (opinion orientated) however I wish to say this. No offense to you Jackal, but you can exercise that seemingly vast vocabulary of yours to your hearts desire, but (Surprise surprise) MgNalis has produced nothing, and tempted our community yet again with 'golden apple' of the contemporary KOTOR modding community, model cracking. Perhaps you are foreign of MgNalis's history of deceit and half-truths. This is not the first time, nor will it be the last sadly I assume, that he promises yet does not deliver. In previous months, he promised an abundance of ‘profound’, in an inconceivably short time. He claimed they were ‘on his other computer’ with no way of accessing them for weeks, perhaps even months. The KOTOR community (majority) forgot about such promises, and self proclaimed mods. I know some of our vigilantes have not (Darth333, T7, tk102, Fred Tetra, etc.) while I have contributed next to nothing to our KOTOR community, at least I don’t claim to harbor such incredible mods, and distribute nothing to the community who extended themselves to all, modders an non alike, with their own tools. Where would your ‘modding team’ be without Fred Tetra’s KOTOR tools? Without Tk102’s save game editor? Without T7’s knowledge and mods? (Sorry if I am specifically forgetting an editor created by you, T7) You withhold information and mods you would not have been able to create without the help of this community, from this community. That disturbs me. The Facts: 1. MgNalis has produced none of his acclaimed mods to the community, ever. 2. MgNalis has offered no proof of such mods minus the ‘Galaxy Forge’ screen shots (don’t even get me started on those) 3. For such a ‘gifted’ self-proclaimed modder, MgNalis has shown no real evidence of modding talent, yet rather seems to leech of the skill of others. (Ex: Everyone that contributed to his ‘vision’ of the Galaxy forge, which has been forgotten, again) 4. MgNalis has yet to finish one (self proclaimed) project before beginning another one. 5. MgNalis has offered no screen shots. Darth, you’re a lawyer, I’m studying law… What do YOU think? Does he have a case? I certainly believe not. No flame intended, but I’m sick of this… as I believe many members of our community are already. I have dubbed MgNalis the ‘Messiah of fallacies’… continue to follow him, you will receive his vision, and nothing else. Should MgNalis produce this model editor, consider this post ‘cheerfully withdrawn’… until then, the facts stay. That is a bit mean and untrue, as a member of the ancient empires team i can assure you that 1)mgnails has talent 2)the galaxy forge is completed it will be part of AE 3)He does not leech of other people we all work togethor. 4)there are screenshots of star wars AE and the galxy forge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxss Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by lowiej That is a bit mean and untrue, as a member of the ancient empires team i can assure you that 1)mgnails has talent 2)the galaxy forge is completed it will be part of AE 3)He does not leech of other people we all work togethor. 4)there are screenshots of star wars AE and the galxy forge 1) Perhaps that was a little harsh, I'm just pissed. 2) Release it so we can try it out? 3) Interesting. 4) Link? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Atris* Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 i dont have a link the galaxy forge was on mgnails sit and i saw a planet but im not going to say the name becasue it hasnt been mentioned on the old galaxy forge site i have also been in revans esate, a different dantooine and an other place but that would be telling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk102 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by JackJackal However I believe as stated this was more of a "We all know we want to release this to the public, but before someone goes ahead of the team, why not give them the chance to say yes to it so it is done as a team effort and not the working and to the glorification of one man." Unfortunately, the declaration of "the model format has been cracked", came across in exactly that way. It is one thing for the developer of such a tool make such a claim and carry on a technical discussion regarding it. It is altogether different for others to boast about it and give the ever-popular "stay-tuned" post. Read: give me more attention please! It had been my hope that this type of posting had been minimized after the last round with the Galaxy Forge threads and the addition of the Forum Rules etc. Unfortunately, it has taken root again in a topic that had been igniting new interest in modding KotOR. Now the whole topic of mdl decompiling has been diluted and distracted. Nothing positive has come from these boasts. The attention-seekers have gotten their attention. If you want respect and not just attention, produce something. In fact, the posters who garnish the most respect in this forum are those who talk the least and produce the most. Fred Tetra, dh-vug, Helodermatid, and gameunlimited all come to mind as those having very high signal to noise ratios. And cchargin, for sure. To mgnails and the ae team, I respect the fact that you are attempting something large in a team format. Please try to keep your noise level down. Let us make the noise after you've given us something to cheer about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxss Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Amen. Nice worded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Chemix Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Well aren't u optimistic. We haven't released the compiler/decompiler because we have to do further testing. It might have a giant bug which cloud disapoint u all, then we'd get flamed for releasing completely bugged files. I have been working on this mod for say, a month now, and have seen progress first hand. We aren't very open about progress, yes, but the finished project will be well worth the wait. We have to get alot done in very little time. Sorry if we offended anyone by not putting up the file for DL, but it needs testing before any type of release. Even a beta test. We just wanted to inform u of a major developement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearless_Jedi Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 So.........will this enable me to create animations for KotOR using gmax or do I have to get 3dsmax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sithchick Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 I know we are all annoyed with mgnails not giving us info, he sits on his arse and gets people to do stuff for him (i know ive bin on the site) so i have "aquired" some info and put it on a website VIEW IT it has the story line the party the classes and some pics aswell i did aboput an hour ago and will keep adding to it. http://kotor.8m.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgnails Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Now why the heck did you do that? I was keeping this a secret for a reason you know. and I think that my team will agree that I do more than sit on my arse and do nothing. But, I apologize if any of these mods has offeded Holowan. I dunno why, but every Idea I have come up with and started working on has been berated after about one month of development. So, there you have it, our progress. But sithchick won't be posting more. Why? Becasue this project is officially canceled. I'm tired of all of this crap that you people have been feeding me. I release some good info on whats going on, and you greedy people have to have more. So, im trying to still be nice, Ill leave the forums up so you can grab as much as your little eyes can take about what we are doing or more like what we WERE doing. So, being that this community has lost its politeness and sithchick as just posted stolen data which could be considered plagerism to some, you all can figure the model format out by yourselves. I'd say good luck with the next 5 years of cracking it because you really are heading in the wrong direction with the model format. (no offense cchargin, your progress is admirable). EDIT: Moderators, please delete all threads that have anything to do with any mods Ive made. Galaxy Forge, Kotor: AE, ect. I don't blame this on you (especialy not Prime or T7) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearless_Jedi Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Hold on man, maybe you should just calm down. U are going to throw away all that hard work just cause some guy stole some info? Is it that big a deal? I understand that some people have been impatient with u and I can understand how that can piss someone off, but if u just let that roll right over u then what can u ever expect to accomplish in life? I for one dont want u to go, and I dont want u to stop ur modding project. Your mods are great and the KotOR modding community is lucky to have someone like you, so dont just give up because of a thief and some complainers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgnails Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 ill think about it. It depends on HOW MUCH more crap I get and HOW MUCH more stolen data that sithchick posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Atris* Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 how did she gain acess to our site, i thought it was for members only?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Atris* Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 and i agree with you mgnails you do do alot of work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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