VanLingo Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 According to IGN's X-Box SWB update, Battlefront features a map radar that shows where everyone on your team and the enemy team is (your team in green, enemies in red). I don't like the idea, and I know that snipers will be frustrated to hear it. What do you all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggle Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Having a radar isn't so bad im not so keen on the team colours bieng shown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 YES! No one posted what I was going to say! The radar isnt going to show the enemies, it is going to show the spawn points. so the snipers will still be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowHawkTA Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 I dont mind the idea of a radar. I think it would be a good idea to take the idea of the radar from Halo. It only shows enemy when they are nearby. That may cause problems for snipers true but it at least wont show them when they are halfway across the battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 I could do without the radar. In real battles, soldiers don't have HUDs, radars, instant indicators of their health and ammo... but I guess in video games all these things are nessesary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowHawkTA Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Yeah I guess your right. Radar does seem out there for a battlefield type game. I do have to agree with TK a little bit in saying that it is necessary for games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Havoc Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 radar with teammates= good radar with everyone= bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by TK-8252 I could do without the radar. In real battles, soldiers don't have HUDs, radars, instant indicators of their health and ammo... but I guess in video games all these things are nessesary. That is incorrect. The military invented GPS to track assets in the field. Radar is an essential part of aerial combat as well. If radar is included in the game, I would expect that players would have ways to evade radar. Stealth suits, false radar signatures, or jamming devices would suffice. Consideration would also have to be given to covert units. They would need to appear as friendlies on both team's radar while covert. Overall, radar will help players find each other, especially on very large maps. If players want to remove it, they can always modify the game to disable or modify that feature. Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowHawkTA Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 I have to agree with Lt. Havoc. Radar for your teamates would be good. After thinkin about it for a little bit I totally agree that radar for everyone is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Well, I can't see soldiers carrying around hand-held radars with them in the field, and are able to read them at all times as they're shooting enemy troops, tossing grenades, and flying with jetpacks. If only radars would be like an inventory item or something instead of it being conveniently on your screen. This way you have to stop and look at the radar instead of always having it in your sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowHawkTA Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 TK that is an awsome idea. The person would have to fight and then try and find a safe place to check his radar. I like that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 On small maps radar is unnecessary, especially if players know the map. On large maps, radar has many benefits. Radar in most games has a limited range, so it won't be an issue of knowing where everyone is on the entire map. Showing where teammates are in the nearby vicinity and showing that there are opponents in close proximity will add to the gameplay. On a map like Endor where shrubbery and foliage will conceal players, finding players to team up with will be difficult without radar. Spotting players that are concealed by the forest will also be difficult. Having a radar indicating the presence of the opposing team will alllow players to communicate intelligence to teammates, and help coordinate any strategies. Playing on large maps without radar that indicates both friend and foe creates a situation where players generally just form big groups and sally forth. While I expect many new players will adopt this particular strategy, I also see more advanced players appreciating the intelligence that neutral radar provides. Example: Rebel scout spots enemy movement on her radar. Quick voice communication to the team lets them know an AT-ST, Tie Fighter and several Stormtroopers are moving in her direction. Team brings in X-Wing, couple of speeder bikes, and Vanguards to deal with the enemy contact. This is also plausible without radar. Rebel scout visually spots units and calls in reinforcements; however, upon arriving they will have very little information about where the attacking force is located. In other words, the battle that ensues will be chaotic without the tactical benefits of radar. It would be fun, but most of the players would just be shooting at random targets rather than than performing as a cohesive unit. It will be possible to play strategically in SWBF without radar, but radar will greatly enhance gameplay. It allows players to quickly find friend or foe, and also helps teams determine tactical decisions. This is especially true on large maps where the task of just finding the opponent can sometimes be very tedious. Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by TK-8252 Well, I can't see soldiers carrying around hand-held radars with them in the field, and are able to read them at all times as they're shooting enemy troops, tossing grenades, and flying with jetpacks. If only radars would be like an inventory item or something instead of it being conveniently on your screen. This way you have to stop and look at the radar instead of always having it in your sight. Look at Republic Commando as an example of how this would work in the SW universe. The Republic Commando HUD is built into the commando's helmet. It displays ammo, radar, health and other details to the player. Imperial Stormtroopers would have these same HUDs. This could also apply to Clone Troopers and Droids. Rebel troops would be the exception to this model, but for gameplay and balance reasons they would have to have radar capability as well if all the other factions have radar. Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by Idei Look at Republic Commando as an example of how this would work in the SW universe. The Republic Commando HUD is built into the commando's helmet. It displays ammo, radar, health and other details to the player. Imperial Stormtroopers would have these same HUDs. This could also apply to Clone Troopers and Droids. Rebel troops would be the exception to this model, but for gameplay and balance reasons they would have to have radar capability as well if all the other factions have radar. Idei Good point. But I still think that the Rebels shouldn't have HUDs maybe. They're just primitive scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Havoc Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 guess what? Its star wars and blaster fire always delivers nice trails of energy and light. Unless you're killed from the first shot and unless you're complete retard at deduction and geometry one would think you could figure out where your opponent is. Secondly, with the few exceptions Star Wars battle dress isn't very tactical. On certain maps certain teams will have an advantage. If you're a rebel on Endor and you can't see that Stormtrooper 150 (virtual) feet away you've got problems. Like wise on Hoth the Imps have a slightly more terrain blendable uniform. If you're needing a radar which shows enemy positions dust off your N64 and play Goldeneye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by TK-8252 Good point. But I still think that the Rebels shouldn't have HUDs maybe. They're just primitive scum. The Rebels have Jedi. Lightsaber beats radar. If only SWBF had playable Jedi. Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by Lt. Havoc guess what? Its star wars and blaster fire always delivers nice trails of energy and light. Unless you're killed from the first shot and unless you're complete retard at deduction and geometry one would think you could figure out where your opponent is. Secondly, with the few exceptions Star Wars battle dress isn't very tactical. On certain maps certain teams will have an advantage. If you're a rebel on Endor and you can't see that Stormtrooper 150 (virtual) feet away you've got problems. Like wise on Hoth the Imps have a slightly more terrain blendable uniform. If you're needing a radar which shows enemy positions dust off your N64 and play Goldeneye. Those are all valid points, but tone down the hostility. Having a strong position on a topic is great. Just remember that many of us have opinions that may be contrary to your own. More opinion, less accusation. Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Havoc Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 I should have used "one" instead of "you", less of an implication. "If one can't deduce the direction an attacker..." Would that have worked better? Sorry to have offended anyone. I just think a radar which displays everyone is like spoon feeding the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by Lt. Havoc I should have used "one" instead of "you", less of an implication. "If one can't deduce the direction an attacker..." Would that have worked better? Sorry to have offended anyone. I just think a radar which displays everyone is like spoon feeding the players. The specific examples were great. The references to players being 'inept' if they can't see it a certain way and the 'go play Golden Eye' seemed a bit inflammatory without cause. What I've found is that in games that support radar, with or without friend or foe detection, most of the time it only helps to find teammates or where the next battle is happening. Usually, once a battle starts players have to focus on the firefight. Looking up at the radar can often cost the player the battle. This drawback balances the advantage of receiving a quick update of player positions. It's a risk, but can be worth it in the hands of a sklled player. Preserving the camo of Rebel units is important. A lot of time went into coming up with terrain and uniforms that blend with the environment, and they will be apparent once Imperials start scanning the forest and seeing nothing but trees, even if Rebels appear on the radar. The same would apply to snowtroopers on Hoth. Finally, the reason I support limited range universal radar is that finding the opponent on big maps can be a real chore. By limited radar I am talking about radar that displays friend or foe (IFF) within say 200m. Limited range. Spending time searching the the entire map for the opponent might be fun to some players, but I would prefer having a general indication of where the opposing players are. It could be as simple as a arrow on the compass indicating where the nearest opponent is once they are in range. The ideal solution would allow the server to configure radar settings. Teammates only, Opponents only, both teams, range->100m->200m etc, and finally color settings on the radar HUD. Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by Idei If only SWBF had playable Jedi. Oh god no. How are Jedi supposed to balance with the rest of the classes?! There's absolutely no way. That's why the developers decided a long time ago not to put in Jedi. That's one decision that they made right. And, what Jedi were active during the trilogy? Other than the famous characters, NONE! Therefore, there's no Jedi to use. Realism aside, do you know how many "omfg jedi r teh pwnzor!!11" n00bs would flock to the Jedi class? No matter how much you would make the Jedi suck compared to the rest of the classes, everyone would just spam the Jedi. It's happened in Jedi Academy's siege. Everyone just gets the stupid Jedi class, spams lightsaber throw, and dominates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xirion Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 well there goes the idea of tactics out the window if a radar is brought it i hope its just a rumour because its a waste of code Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idei Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by TK-8252 Oh god no. How are Jedi supposed to balance with the rest of the classes?! There's absolutely no way. That's why the developers decided a long time ago not to put in Jedi. That's one decision that they made right. And, what Jedi were active during the trilogy? Other than the famous characters, NONE! Therefore, there's no Jedi to use. Realism aside, do you know how many "omfg jedi r teh pwnzor!!11" n00bs would flock to the Jedi class? No matter how much you would make the Jedi suck compared to the rest of the classes, everyone would just spam the Jedi. It's happened in Jedi Academy's siege. Everyone just gets the stupid Jedi class, spams lightsaber throw, and dominates. Just pointing out that the Jedi are aligned with the Rebel faction thus making them more than the "primitive scum" referred to in one of your earlier posts. I know you were kidding, but someone has to defend the Rebels around here. As far as the quoted post, that's an accurate description of what would happen if Jedi were playable in SWBF. Still, any SW fan must wonder what would happen if Jedi were around in SWBF as playable characters, but that another topic, another day. Idei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Oh! My mistake. I thought you were hinting that Jedi should have been playable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRF_Vader Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Realism aside, do you know how many "omfg jedi r teh pwnzor!!11" n00bs would flock to the Jedi class? yes i do, i have a subscription to Star Wars Galaxies, now called Jedi Wars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by SRF_Vader yes i do, i have a subscription to Star Wars Galaxies, now called Jedi Wars... Another great example of a game ruined by Jedi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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