Long silence

[DK_Viceroy]

Grevious Can't be maul I Even got a picture of both and compared them Their Eyes are Completly Different and In most of the Images The Flesh In between the metal in some of his Body is GREEN not RED and BLACK the skin around his eyes is BROWN and his eyes are all YELLOW with a BLACK Stripe down the middle he has no WHITE part of his eyes while maul does.

 

Perhaps you should comapre the voices of this oldieman guy who people have been saying will be doing the voice and compare it to maul's to see if it sounds similar.

 

Also someone try to find that picture of GREVIOUS and compare it to MAUL let us Disprove this theory or prove it conclusiveley.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Compare Anakin's voice to Vader's voice...compare how Hayden Christensen looks like and Sebastian Shaw...

You argument there has little merit since we know so little about the biotechnology that transformed Anakin and Grievious into half-robots.

 

Though I'll agree with you that it is less then likely that Maul is Grievious. It would be weird and Maul is supposed to be dead .This isn't Star Wars: Dawn of the dead. Anakin survived but Maul got cut in half and fell down a seemingly bottomless pit(it looked pretty deep so it's really likely that Maul's corpse was squashed when it touched the bottom).

 

Grievious being Qui-Gon? I expect seeing Qui-Gon's blue ghost talking to Anakin but a clone?

 

The theory that seems the most logical to me would be that Sifo Dyas is Grievious.

 

 

EDIT: Oh and your crazy just as narrow minded(if you could even call it narrow minded) view over EU and Star Wars could also lead to fascism and genocide...though it's stupid to compare Star Wars purism with Hitler...

[Nairb Notneb]

Holy cow you guys are full of cheese or something! EU and Star Wars could also lead to fascism and genocide? Are you nuts? Either Grievous is going to be SD, Maul or just plain Grievous. There is no way he will be a clone or Qui-Gon because that will muck up the story of Anakin way too much.

 

Did anybody read my post with the picture of the half Maul half droid thing? This concept picture was mandated by George Lucas himself the article says. Why would he want this sketch made? To put it in the movie. The article says that this particular sketch did not make it into the movie, but the general idea of a half light saber wielding half droid bad guy did, and from this sketch we know that somewhere Lucas told them to draw up part of Maul in there. Here it is again for those of you that just post and don't read.

 

http://www.starwars.com/eu/news/2004/08/news20040803.html

 

 

And, here is a direct post to the picture, it's cool.

 

http://www.starwars.com/eu/news/2004/08/news20040803_1.html

 

 

One more thing. Viceroy, if you say that EU is gospel one more time I'll scream because it's not. One point showing the inaccuracy of your statement is your precious Death Star reveal by the Geo's in AoTC. According to EU some scientist created it and there was a prototype of it in a nebula or something like that. Well, it looks like Lucas changed his and our minds about that thus changing EU. It can't be gospel if it changes.

[Admiral Vostok]

Nairb: Wow, excellent link there. A little more fuel to my Maul=Greivous theory.

 

Viceroy:

I think Sifo Dyas shall be revealed as someone else perhaps Palpatine

Again I say it is highly unlikely that Sifo-Dyas is Palpatine. It doesn't matter how good your mind control is, you can't be two highly visible public figures (member of the Jedi Council and Senator for Naboo) at the same time. Also as we know Mind Tricks only work on the weak minded, so you wouldn't be able to fool people like Yoda and Mace Windu.

 

As for your revelation of Greivous' eyes: until we have a shot of Greivous in the movie and not just a concept picture, we don't really have any accurate comparisons, so my theory can't be discounted just be looking at the concept art. You'll need an actual still from the movie.

 

Also, I find it amusing that you refer to me as narrow minded. If EU is gospel, answer these questions:

1) Who designed the Death Star?

2) What planet was Boba Fett born on?

3) How old is C-3PO?

The answers are different depending on whether you go by published EU, or by the prequels. Therefore, they contradict. Therefore, EU is not gospel.

 

Oh, and last I heard John Rhys Davies (Gimli from LOTR, Sallah from Indiana Jones) was possibly going to voice Greivous. Yes his voice is different to Maul's, but so is James Earl Jones' voice different to Hayden Christensen.

 

Kryllith:

Is the revelation even assured?

Again, no the revelation is not assured, I'm just assuming in the tradition of good storytelling that there will be a revelation. Why would Yoda and Mace Windu act all shifty upon hearing Sifo-Dyas' name if there was to be no revelation in Revenge of the Sith?

 

Indeed the argument against Maul being unable to conceal his identity like Palpatine can is just an assumption of yours, there is no evidence for it and it doesn't necessarily hold true.

[Majin Boba Fett]

Greivous = Maul is a good theory. I just don't see how. They look so different. Unless of course it's just Maul's brain in the that thing, but that woul be weird. Maul = Syfo-Dyas looks good though.

[Admiral Vostok]

Certainly going just from the concept art we've seen as Viceroy is there isn't much evidence to support the idea that Greivous = Maul.

 

However I find both the Maul=Sifo-Dyas and the Sifo-Dyas=Greivous theories to have merit, so you can see the obvious leap in logic.

[DK_Viceroy]

Whoever said Sifo Dyas was ever on the council yes he was a jedi master but no one ever said he was on the council

 

and for that so called theory fuel I wouldn't count on it yet If you bothered to read the article which I highly doubt you will dikscover that that art was done for a COMIC and that picture to me wasn't in the least suprising considering the rumours about episode 2 was that he came back with mechanical legs.

 

ANswer me this though Just why would he use Maul he'd been a proven Failure beaten by a PADAWAN however Dooku was beaten off By a master not defeated but beaten off and that was After defeating Who was supposed to be hearalded as one of the most powerful Upcomming jedi and Master Kenobi.

 

From That perspective Maul is useless and Besides you can't be a Brilliant Tacticain like Grevious if you were a sith you'd be full of anger and anger clouds any tactics.

 

If it's Maul's brain then why is the skin and eyes there?

wouldn't he just be a brain in a full robot body?

If He Is Maul then why are his eyes different?

Why are his eyes all yellow with one long black stripe?

why are his eyes a different shape?

Why is the skin around his eyes brown?

Why is the flesh around his chest area green?

why is Grevious's head far thinner than mauls?

 

Vostok you should watch the making of Grevious v ideo and take a screenshot of the last couple of seconds on the zoomes up face and then compare it to maul and you will see that they can't be the same person.

 

Maul's story was finished in Episode 1 He was there because he was there and he died there end of story No Star Wars technology brings life back to the dead that Is a cardinal rule in all of Star wars whether it be Gosphel EU or Sacred Film neither purports that or why else would Obi-Wan be so upset when he knew Qui-Gon could be revived or why would luke be sad when he knew his father could be brought back?

[Admiral Vostok]

You've made so many mistakes with your assumptions, so let me help you out:

Whoever said Sifo Dyas was ever on the council yes he was a jedi master but no one ever said he was on the council

Dispute my knowledge of Star Wars and ye shall be smited.

Lama Su: "Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas is still a leading member of the Jedi Council, is he not?"

and for that so called theory fuel I wouldn't count on it yet If you bothered to read the article which I highly doubt you will dikscover that that art was done for a COMIC and that picture to me wasn't in the least suprising considering the rumours about episode 2 was that he came back with mechanical legs.

I don't know why you highly doubt my reading of the article, you probably just said that as a cheap shot as you always do. But since you've obviously read the article you mustn't have missed the part that says the comics "will showcase new designs from the artists most responsible for the dazzling imagery in Revenge of the Sith."

If it's Maul's brain then why is the skin and eyes there?

wouldn't he just be a brain in a full robot body?

Not necessarily. It could quite easily be his whole head.

If He Is Maul then why are his eyes different?

Why are his eyes all yellow with one long black stripe?

why are his eyes a different shape?

Why is the skin around his eyes brown?

Why is the flesh around his chest area green?

why is Grevious's head far thinner than mauls?

Again as I already said you're going from concept work. I'm not saying Greivous definitely is Maul, I'm just saying don't discout it from what we've seen in the concept work.

No Star Wars technology brings life back to the dead that Is a cardinal rule in all of Star wars whether it be Gosphel EU or Sacred Film neither purports that or why else would Obi-Wan be so upset when he knew Qui-Gon could be revived or why would luke be sad when he knew his father could be brought back?

It is not a cardinal rule at all. It could be some sort of perverse technology that no-one knows about, and even if they did know about it they would never use it because of how horrible it is. Obviously you've never read Frankenstein. Indeed Maul/Greivous could be the only person this has ever been performed on. He could in fact just be a prototype for the technology that will keep Darth Vader alive.

[DK_Viceroy]

Oh What I'm looking at isn't Concept Art Like I said It's from the end of the Making Of General Grevious Video and I wouldn't say the image at the end is a Concept no I'd say that's the Finished Article

 

I'll edit this with a link of two pictures ttogether.

 

http://dk_viceroy.tripod.com/The_Comparison.doc

[Admiral Vostok]

Well I've seen the making of Greivous video and I don't remember seeing any bits that looked like they were from the movie, so I eagerly await your captured images.

 

EDIT: the link you provided does not work.

[DK_Viceroy]

Check Above and for your convinience I've put a Maul Beside it too

 

That Grevious Certainly Doesn't Look like Concept It looks Like Something that they've already Started Filming With Since I remeber them saying that he's gone be all CGI

 

EDIT:Try Right Clicking and got to Save Target since it's a downloadable anyway.

[Admiral Vostok]

Still doesn't work. Tripod doesn't allow file hosting obviously.

[DK_Viceroy]

That Seems Eminenetly So Of Course

 

http://www.2and2.net/Uploads/Documents/The%20Comparison.doc

 

I however Rarely Give up

[Nairb Notneb]

The eyes and voice are easily explained. The eyes are robotic implants and Grievous speaks through a voice synthesizer similar to Vader, thus the differences. No mystery.

[Admiral Vostok]

As I said way back above, it's probable that when Sifo-Dyas took on the persona of Darth Maul he changed his eyes - perhaps with contact lenses - so he looked different to Sifo-Dyas. Perhaps Greivous' eyes are what Sifo-Dyas' eyes really look like?

 

But again, I stress that the picture of Greivous is just concept art, not an in-movie still. Unless you think there is a scene in Revenge of the Sith where Greivous' head floats in mid air on a pure white background?

 

When it comes down to it, I find it highly unlikely that if my theory were true they would give Greivous the same eyes as Maul anyway. That would be a bit too obvious, so that when the revelation comes no-one would be surprised.

 

Keep in mind that when Darth Vader was revealed as Luke's father, the fact was kept very secret from nearly everyone. Only Mark Hamill and James Earl Jones knew before the movie was released. Not even David Prowse knew, he was given fake lines. So it is entirely possible that Greivous' true identity is being kept secret by Lucas intentionally planting misleading concept art...

 

And here is yet another thought... what if Darth Maul/Sifo-Dyas was a changeling?

[DK_Viceroy]

Now that theory has Credence It certainly fits in though wouldn't he have reverted back to his original from when he was abreviated since Zam did when she was dieing so We can assume it takes concentration to maintain a form.

 

I don't like to Say anything that could go against this theory because i like it but wouldn't Maul then have done some shape changing tricks and tried to turn Qui and Obi against each other that certainly sounds like something a sith would do.

 

Like I said Grevious is supposed to be a CGI character so their obviously not going to have a picture of him laughing it up with lucas right?

 

What Contact Lenses would cover the Entire Eye including the white area? I myself wear Contact Lenses they only cover the pupil and remeber if those were sifo-dyas's eyes wouldn't he need something different to a contact lens since you would still be able to see the yellow area's where the white is supposed to be and the black stripe would pretty much dominate.

 

They can't be implant's either We've seen from that TF pilot that eye implant's are very bulky and even EU has nothing to say on the subject of eye implant's since the only person that could have had an eye implant Didn't because His other pilots would have needed it more and he is Baron Soontir Fell better known later on as Syndic Fell

[Admiral Vostok]

Now that theory has Credence It certainly fits in though wouldn't he have reverted back to his original from when he was abreviated since Zam did when she was dieing so We can assume it takes concentration to maintain a form.

Perhaps Maul's appearance was his original form? It's possible that Clawdites aren't the only changelings in the galaxy. It's also possible that Maul was better at holding his form than Zam was, or that after he's been in the form for that long it becomes more permanent. Also if Maul is a species other than Clawdite, perhaps his species finds it far easier to shape-shift, and they don't revert to their natural form when killed.

I don't like to Say anything that could go against this theory because i like it but wouldn't Maul then have done some shape changing tricks and tried to turn Qui and Obi against each other that certainly sounds like something a sith would do.

Glad you like the theory, and in fact I quite like it too. Having thought more about it today I think it's quite possible that a changeling could be involved in all this. As for confusing Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, shape-shifting is probably quite hard to do which is why Zam didn't change whilst she was supposed to be hiding from the Jedi. But also he might not have wanted to reveal the fact he is a changeling. Finally, Maul is more of a full-on berzerk fighter, sneaking around in a disguise is not his forte.

What Contact Lenses would cover the Entire Eye including the white area? I myself wear Contact Lenses they only cover the pupil and remeber if those were sifo-dyas's eyes wouldn't he need something different to a contact lens since you would still be able to see the yellow area's where the white is supposed to be and the black stripe would pretty much dominate.

Contact lenses that cover the entire eye are common today, theyre used in many movies. I just watched the behind the scenes stuff on my Pirates of the Caribbean DVD, and most if not all of the pirates had contact lenses, some that covered the entire eye so the whites of their eyes appeared yellow. The dude with the wooden eye had a particularly large contact lense that made his eye stick out.

[Nairb Notneb]

I don't like the changeling idea because the idea of changelings to me is to far fetched, though it works for the story by explaining it all very nicely in this case. I do, however think that it would be a lot of fun to be one.

 

I think that when this movie comes out, we will probably find out (to our disappointment) that these three names will be for three different individuals. Maul was only Maul. Sifo was only Sifo and no actor ever played him and he will for ever remain faceless. And Grievous will only be the General, another short lived character. IF this were true, that would be awful, wouldn't it?

 

Let's look at this from George's Star Wars story telling history. How many short lived characters does he really have? There are very few that have come into the movie, made an impact on the story line in some way and only been here for one movie. This has been said before but I want to repeat it because I believe it is a strong argument for General Grievous being either one of Sifo Dias or Darth Maul. I think that it is more likely that Darth Maul was SD and he is GG.

 

I believe that George Lucas is doing this for a few reasons. One, to bring back a beloved character of Maul, explaining who Sifo is and how the clone army was ordered and to foreshadow in the ROTS that when Anakin "dies" in the lava pit that he can be "rebuilt" with a mechanical body.

 

I understand that that last part is hard to understand because we all know that it can happen, but look at it from the storytelling perspective as if this will be the first time you ever see episode 3 and that you have never before seen the last 3 movies. You are not expecting Anakin to die nor fall into a pit and turn into a mechanical man with a dark helmet, red and blue lights on his chest and that sounds like a prank heavy breather on the phone.

[DK_Viceroy]

I Like to think of Maul and Sifo Dyas as packaged together and left there however Grevious will be short lived in the Movies but George Lucas has ordered and given his blessing for him to be fleshed out in the EU which means that there will be a piece of EU that will be immune and will be even more Cannon by the strcitest Deinfition of the word than the Movies and all of their Special Editions the Grevious EU will be Immutable and closer to perfection opposed to the Movie's in the sense they won't be changed after being published also the fact it's been given a blessing.

 

I'm in a Platonic mood today but I'll leave everyone else to attempt to Unravel the Mysteries I put before you Since I am a student Of Philosophy and Ethics the NJO series holds far more interest for me that it does for others particularly in the area of Jedi Philosophy as we study Jedi-ism as a religon in Philosophy and ethics.

 

And Yes Jedi-ism is a real religon

[Admiral Vostok]

Viceroy, there is so much you don't understand about canon, least of which is how to spell it.

but George Lucas has ordered and given his blessing for him to be fleshed out in the EU which means that there will be a piece of EU that will be immune and will be even more Cannon by the strcitest Deinfition of the word than the Movies

Wrong. Like all other EU it has been allowed to come into existence by George Lucas. All the EU on Greivous is still only that: EU. It is in no way more canonical than the movies, so by the strictest definition of the word you are way off.

 

George Lucas "gave his blessing" to Greivous EU in exactly the same way he "gave his blessing" to all the other EU in existence today. He's allowed it to come into being, but that doesn't make it in tune with his vision of the Star Wars Universe.

[DK_Viceroy]

There is a differnce between giving his blessing and allowing it to exist.

 

You still are fascinated by the shadows on the cave wall arn't you vostok you will never turn round and look at the true world and see the fire and The One.

 

As such everything you say is subject to scrutiny since what you are saying is not what you mean what you are trying to say and since you are not talking of an idea or form, but a particular what you are saying has no true meaning so As such it will be dismissed. I shall leave you to your shadows Vostok.

[lukeiamyourdad]

For the love of punctuation...

[DK_Viceroy]

I see your resorting to old Insults Luke That Only needed one comma and a full stop.

[Admiral Vostok]

That is not an insult. If you are insulted by someone requesting some decent punctuation in your posts you need to grow a thicker skin.

 

As for the difference between "giving a blessing" and "allowing it to exist", there really is no difference in terms of what we're talking about. "Giving a blessing" is just a nicer way to say "allowing it to exist". There are several places where EU in general - not just that relating to General Greivous - has been described as having George Lucas' blessing. That doesn't mean he holds it in any higher regard than the rest of EU out there.

[DK_Viceroy]

He's wishing the EU about grevious good luck because For the people who want to understand the back story about grevious they'll have to make him richer by buying the books.

 

And something's gonna have to flesh out grevious the film Isn't called Star Wars Episode 3 Grevious Beginnings it is?