Was Dooku Yoda's Apprentice?

[Brottor]

I agree with this train of thought. I always thought taking a Padawan was a choice. Masters pretty much do what they like as long as its good by the council. I have a feeling that the 10000 number includes all padawan as well though. Maybe because I always feel that most normal people dont know the difference between master and padawan.

[Kurgan]

According to EU sources, a Jedi does not have to take a padawan, and the rank of master can be achieved without taking one if the Council feels the individual's accomplishments and abilities warrant it. I believe the original Jorus C'baoth was an example of this.

 

That's cool, but remember C'Boath was created long before we knew anything about the prequels, so he could be retconned. Remember, he was supposed to be a member of the Jedi Council, and we never saw him in all three movies. Though we never saw Sifo Dyias either (Lama Su thought he was a prominent member of the Jedi Council 10 years before AOTC).

 

And in ROTS Kenobi implies that the Council would some day soon make Anakin a master (and thus it isn't too important that he isn't made one upon his Council appointment), which would indicate that taking a padawan wasn't technically required. But this would seem to be the exceptional cases. The traditional path is to train a padawan to knighthood.

 

Right, well the term "master" implies you have someone under you (what are you "master of" after all? unless it's like a degree, like Bachelor of the Force, Master of the Force, Doctor of the Force, etc). But then it's a bit confusing, because suddenly in ROTS it's also a "Rank" for members of the Jedi Council (Anakin being the exception), plus people call you "Master Jedi" out of respect, regardless of rank (except Padawans I guess).

 

You're a Padawan, then a Jedi (Knight), and then maybe you could be a Master. Was Qui Gon a Master (the rank apparently didn't exist in the movies yet, but I mean now that we have ROTS)?

 

There are very few Jedi, and consequently somebody has to train them. I agree, not all Jedi will achieve the rank of Master probably, but Yoda can't train everyone (at least not forever).

[Prime]

That's cool, but remember C'Boath was created long before we knew anything about the prequels, so he could be retconned.

However, his bio in the Power of the Jedi sourcebook indicates that he had no padawan, and that was written after AOTC. I don't think there was any mention of that fact in the Thrawn trilogy.

[hk47]

I believe (Read: It was inferred in EP2);

 

Dooku was Yoda's apprentice... like Qui-gon was Dooku's... and Obi-Wan was Qui-Gon's... and Aniken was Obi-Wan's.

i wonder who was yodas master...

[MachineCult]

Theres undoubtedly an EU answer to that.

[Darth_Death]

knowing that dooku trained Grevous in the jedi arts i wonder how Grevous got started?

[MachineCult]

knowing that dooku trained Grevous in the jedi arts i wonder how Grevous got started?

 

What?

[arkodeon]

That's cool, but remember C'Boath was created long before we knew anything about the prequels, so he could be retconned. Remember, he was supposed to be a member of the Jedi Council, and we never saw him in all three movies. Though we never saw Sifo Dyias either (Lama Su thought he was a prominent member of the Jedi Council 10 years before AOTC).

 

 

 

Right, well the term "master" implies you have someone under you (what are you "master of" after all? unless it's like a degree, like Bachelor of the Force, Master of the Force, Doctor of the Force, etc). But then it's a bit confusing, because suddenly in ROTS it's also a "Rank" for members of the Jedi Council (Anakin being the exception), plus people call you "Master Jedi" out of respect, regardless of rank (except Padawans I guess).

 

You're a Padawan, then a Jedi (Knight), and then maybe you could be a Master. Was Qui Gon a Master (the rank apparently didn't exist in the movies yet, but I mean now that we have ROTS)?

 

There are very few Jedi, and consequently somebody has to train them. I agree, not all Jedi will achieve the rank of Master probably, but Yoda can't train everyone (at least not forever).

 

Wow, that's incredibly confusing.

 

Masters can be Masters without sitting on the Council; They were, for a lack of a better way to put it, 'Doctors' of the Force, much in the same way that you may earn a Doctorate in Science, etc. etc. (Not doctor's as in..."Get me 3 miligrams of whatever, stat."); Qui-Gon was a Jedi Master, according to the Star Wars databank, but because of his unorthodox methods, he was not granted a seat on the Council; technically, all Jedi may and will ascend into Masterhood, save for their a) untimely death, b) lack of action, c) inability to find a Knight as a Padawan. Remember, Younglings who were not placed into the care of a Jedi Knight were transfered to 'Corps.' (I.E. Agricultural Corps.)

 

A Jedi Master is a rank above Jedi Knight. Jedi Knight is a colloquial term for all of the Jedi. Padawan is a learner. Jedi Knight, the rank, is an 'Agent' of the Force. So on, so forth.

 

Damn, Jedi are confusing. ):

[Kurgan]

Ah, but if you're on the Council, you're a Master, by default, but they made the exception with Anakin, which is why he got pissed.

[Kurgan]

What?

His history is explaind in the Visual Dictionary and (I think) Labyrinth of Evil (which I haven't read and don't really plan to). He was "trained in the Jedi arts" meaning he was taught how to fight with Lightsabers and some tips on what a Jedi might do in combat... all by Count Dooku. But Grievous was not force sensitive. He was not a Jedi or Sith. Dooku just gave him some saber lessons, basically. The Clone Wars series also picks up on that idea, and shows them sparring.

[Prime]

But Grievous was not force sensitive. He was not a Jedi or Sith. Dooku just gave him some saber lessons, basically. The Clone Wars series also picks up on that idea, and shows them sparring.

Also note that Grievous does not attempt to block blaster bolts.

[Nedak]

Where in the movies and books did it say that Dooku was Qui-Gons master?

[Kurgan]

Grievous doesn't attempt to block blaster bolts in the movie, true, but then you could argue the only time he was being directly fired upon he didn't have his sabers...

 

Given his speed and such, in CW, I don't see why he couldn't have just spun his sabers like a "shield" to block the bolts. They give us the impression that he's just mechanically obeying Dooku's admonition to "retreat" rather than attack. I think they threw that in there because had built up Grievous to be this fearless unstoppable combat monster who kills Jedi Masters with ease. Then they find out RoTS is going to have him as a coughing coward who doesn't directly kill anybody (except maybe a few Clone Troopers he runs over in that jallopy of his) so they introduce this to try to explain the change.

 

Where in the movies and books did it say that Dooku was Qui-Gons master?

 

In AOTC when Obi-Wan is being held prisoner, Dooku says (iirc) "You forget, I was once his master as he was your's," something along those lines anyway. But yeah, Yoda taught Dooku. Dooku taught Qui Gon Jinn. Qui Gon taught Obi-Wan Kenobi. Obi-Wan taught Anakin, then Luke. According to the movies...

[MachineCult]

Where in the movies and books did it say that Dooku was Qui-Gons master?

I'm sorry Sally but jesus everyone knows that it's mentioned alot in EU and at a crucial scene in the AOTC like Kurgan said.

[Prime]

Grievous doesn't attempt to block blaster bolts in the movie, true, but then you could argue the only time he was being directly fired upon he didn't have his sabers...

In the last episode of CW season one he dodges all the fire from the clones without making any attempt to block it...

[Master Dakari]

*Clears throat*

 

Jedi Youngling - This is the unofficial title given to the Jedi Initiates, young children taken into the Jedi fold and taught the fundamental basics of Jedi teachings. These clans are taught by different venerable Jedi Masters. Yoda had lead over the Bear Clan. They are not considered Padawans at this time.

 

Jedi Padawan - A Jedi Padawan is a Youngling who has come of age, or shown exceptional knowledge and skill , and is now paired with a Knight or Master to complete their training one-on-one. A Master or Knight can have only one Padawan at a time. Anakin Skywalker is a rare example of one who never studied in a Clan.

 

Jedi Knight - A Jedi Knight is a Padawan who has completed their one-on-one training with their mentor, and successfully passed their Jedi Trials. Upon passing their trials they are Knighted and may now take on their own Padawan for training, but this is not a requirement.

 

Jedi Master - This title can be achieved in different ways. The most common manner inwhich a Knight may become a Master is to have successfully trained their first Padawan to Knighthood. Upon the Padawan becoming a Knight, the mentor is then dubbed a Jedi Master. Another method is to attain the title by honorary means. This means that a Knight who has not trained a Padawan may still show a deep knowledge and understanding of the Force, or do a great deed, to the extent that the Council may find them worthy of the title. Examples of this route include Masters Atris, Saesee Tiin, Fay, Stass Allie and Depa Billaba (no padawans are ever mentioned for the last two).

 

Jedi Council - For the most part, it is from the pool of Jedi Masters that the Jedi Council members are chosen. The High Council is composed of 5 lifetime members, 4 long-term members, and 3 short-term members. It should be noted that to be a Master does not mean one is, or required to be, an Council member. Or vice versa. Though Masters are normally chosen to sit on this body, it is not uncommon for a Knight to have a place. Notable Knights to have had seats on the High Coucil are Ki-Adi-Mundi, Stass Allie, and Anakin Skywalker (the first two evetually attained the rank of master).

 

** It is also of worthy note to comment that desperate times call for desperate measures. There are instances in the history of the Jedi Order where rules and regulations have been overlooked for many different circumstances. But these rare measures are not to be taken as the norm, as they are sometimes done without even the entire council's approval. **

 

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On topic now; yes, Dooku was Yoda's Padawan in the "one-on-one" sense. Just as Depa was Mace's Padawan, Qui-Gon was Dooku's and Anakin was Obi-Wan's.

 

But yes, it is possible that Dooku may have been in the Bear Clan and trained under Yoda in that sense as well.

[arkodeon]

I was reading the Star Wars Wiki, and it does indicate that Dooku was NOT Yoda's padawan learner, but studied under Yoda's direct teachings until a Jedi Master named Thame Cerulian took him as a Padawan.

 

Is there any truth to this claim?

[Master Dakari]

Dooku was also apprenticed under Dath Sidious, but does that mean he never had any Jedi masters? No. Every bit of Star Wars literature, outside of the only two inwhich Thame Cerulian appears, points to Dooku being Yoda's Padawan at some point; especially Yoda: Dark Rendezvous. Not to mention Episode II where Yoda sais, "Fought well you have, my old Padawan." Yoda does not consider every Youngling he has ever trained to be Padawans, because they are not. A padawan is a one-on-one apprentice to a Master, and Yoda would never have addressed Dooku in this way unless he had - in fact - be his own padawan at one time or another.

 

Also, it is not uncommon for a Jedi to have many masters throughout their career as a Jedi Padawan. Revan comes to mind as being the greatest example of this. However, the facts tend to point in the direction that Dooku had been the Padawan learner of both, during different times, before he became a Jedi Knight.

 

Also, this might help...

[MachineCult]

If it's canon then that proves it.

[Darth_Terros]

From the NEC

 

Count dooku, heir to the aristocracy of Serenno,became a ward of teh jedi at a very early age and spent years training with Yoda in the jedi temple on Coruscant in 89 b.b.y At the age of thirteen,Dooku was chosen as the Padawan of master Thame Cerullian.

 

So like all jedi until they are picked to be a padawan he was taught by Yoda.

[Lord Valarian]

In AOTC, Yoda refers to Dooku as "My old padawan". Did he just mean this because he was a student at the temple, or did he take him on as an apprentice?

 

Yes according to the databank he was

Count Dooku, one of Yoda's former Padawans, was consolidating a military force out of the droid armies of the commerce guilds.

[Henz]

Maybe the line was just an attempt to clean up the mess that was made in ep. 1. You know, the one where Ben Kenobi says Yoda trained him when Ep. 1 reveals that it was Qui-Gon. This line indicates that loads of trained Jedi Knights refer to Yoda as their trainer most likely because of the Youngling camp thing.

[MachineCult]

Yes but they don't Dooku didn't refer to Yoda as his trainer, Yoda called Dooku his Padawan, the two are very different, a Padawan is much more specific.

A Padawan is an Apprentice, a Youngling is a Youngling. The meaning of Yodas statement is inarguable.

[Prime]

Maybe the line was just an attempt to clean up the mess that was made in ep. 1. You know, the one where Ben Kenobi says Yoda trained him when Ep. 1 reveals that it was Qui-Gon.

This isn't a mess up though, for the reason you stated below. Yoda did train Kenobi in the basic skills. So Kenobi was correct in ESB. He was also the Padawan of Jinn after that.

 

This line indicates that loads of trained Jedi Knights refer to Yoda as their trainer most likely because of the Youngling camp thing.

Correct.

[kotorfan84]

according to Star Wars: The new essetial chronology, "Dooku became a ward of the Jedi at a very early age and spent years training with Yoda in the jedi Temple on Coruscant. In 89 B.B.Y., at the age of thirteen, Dooku was choosen as the padawan of master Thame Cerulian."