SW: Next RTS: Military

[lukeiamyourdad]

An alternate without borders could be a zone around the starting CC(or any CC as a matter of facts) where you can build but not outside of it. Power Cores would extend that zone. We could find a good excuse for that and it sounds more star wars-y then borders.

[DK_Viceroy]

I like that idea LIAYD that you can only have buildings in areas that are powered sort of like a pseudo Blight.

[saberhagen]

They use a similar thing in Dawn of War and it seems to work OK. You can build a CC anywhere there is enough flat land, but you can only build other buildings in a control zone within a certain radius of a CC or a control point that you've captured and built a turret on.

[Darth Windu]

...which is exactly how the Borders system works. Of course you would want to change the name of it, but really it's just the area of land you control and can build on and mine resources in. Because of the latter point, it is really in the interest of the player to expand their borders quickly.

 

Viceroy - no, i actually dont drink all that much. Just a small spelling error.

[DK_Viceroy]

I had a different understanding of the Borders system where you captured cities and that increased your sphere of influence.

 

You may have fixed part of it but don't you mean our RTS not out RTS?

 

It comes to something when I go and correct spelling and grammar.

 

I think though that it should be tweaked so you can build economic buildings anywhere it just sounds a little restricting early game depending on how much Power Cores or their equivalents use.

 

Also on another note War Of the Ring uses a similar system for the Forces of evil where you have Slave Masters place War Posts to create an area that's buildable upon.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Windu- No no no...there are key differences. Your border system restricts construction of additional CC. In this system, you would be able to build a CC at the other edge of the map and people would be able to build inside your buildable area as long as they are also under their own.

This isn't too restrictive but discourages constructing turrets in an enemy's base. If you wanted that you would have to create a network of power cores extending from one of your CC up to the enemy's base which is a waste of time.

The best example of this would be how the Zerg in StarCraft function. They could never roach with buildings.

 

Besides, I don't understand how one can look at building roaching as a plague that needs a big solution. If I somehow manage to rebuild a forward base into a full base after my original one was destroyed and kick your ass, then you deserve the ass kicking...

[DK_Viceroy]

Yeah I will say that the only Building Roaching problem conceivable could on the off Chance be Gungan Underwater Prefabs but I don't think houses count towards saving your butt.

 

Not that it matters since Gungans arn't that popular and their doesn't seem to be a roaching problem since it doesn't take much effort to get rid of the roaching units the Forumites who've played games with Nitro know what I mean.

[Darth Windu]

See, i prefer the Borders system. There is no good reason why someone who isnt an ally should be able to build in your territory.

[FroZticles]

It will be an entire different game anyway, no CC massing and pumping out workers for the boom.

[DK_Viceroy]

The problem I see with that though is whether Territory would automatically become neutral if you don't have buildings near it.

 

Command centers should be buildable anywhere realistically some people set up bases behind enemy lines to maximise suprise.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Windu's just pissed because he got beaten by someone who built a forward base and wiped him out

 

It's going to be a different game right, but it doesn't mean we're not going to have some kind of similar problem.

 

See borders make no sense. There's no neutral terrritory, you HAVE to build within your borders which is indeed, very annoying to an extent. This is not RoN, it will not work the same. No other RTS has a similar border system. No other RTS has problems without one. Denying a useful startegy is destroying a strategic side of the game.

 

I don't even understand what the hell is the problem. If you're incompetent enough to let them setup a huge forward base a build a fortress directly in the middle of your base, you deserve it.

[DK_Viceroy]

You should propably add one thing to that statement just before you dserve it.

 

It should be to the effect that if you let them build the forward base and you can't destroy said forward base then you deserve it.

 

Now we at least know why Windu doesn't like the game, Because he's a noob at it.

 

We don't really have any major problem with Roaching at all in GB there don't seem to be many GAMEPLAY problems at all really.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I have yet to see vet of any other RTS complain about forward bases. The new RTS do not have the TownCenter spamming ability of AoK so there's nothing to worry. Even so, trying to build a fortress in the middle of an enemy's base is a waste of both ressources and valuable troops to defend the construction site. Then again, if you've succesfully defended you built site in the middle of an enemy's base, you've basically won.

 

 

Unless there is a single very strong bulding left(ie fortress) and the map is drained out of ressources(which has never really happened) and you don't have any ressources left yourelf, we never have a building roaching problem. Hiding a big stationary target isn't the best roaching tactic.

[DK_Viceroy]

Well LIAYD it has happened before ask the participants of the Ice Lake Epic during a conflict like that a map can get drained of resources very fast If I remeber rightly nothing natural was left apart from a tiny bit of Carbon in the hotly contested warzone between me and Nitro.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I mean absolutely zero ressources left. You still had each other meaning there is trading left. That is still a ressource.

[DK_Viceroy]

Well true but when you have trading left a lot of juggling is required and that then slows you down when food carbon and ore rise to something like 500 a shot.

 

That's why the Confederacy is better built for the long haul.

[lukeiamyourdad]

My point was about zero trading, zero ally, zero ressource.

[DK_Viceroy]

oh then if your at that point your screwed.

[Darth Windu]

Actually, i have never been beaten by anyone, so cut the bull. I dont have a problem with forward bases, and they are necessary in RoN.

 

With the Borders system, yes, there is neutral territory. Your borders dont just go on and on until they reach the territory of someone else. You only have a small amount of territory to start off with and must expand to survive and conquer.

 

Is a borders system necessary? Yes. With the example you two used, why didnt the Empire just build a forward base right next to Echo Base on Hoth? Why didnt the Rebels construct a fortress next to the Endor Shield Generator? The whole point here is that you are using ARMED UNITS to win the game, not buildings. Allowing people of place any structures next to someone else's base hurts gameplay and realism all at the same time.

[FroZticles]

If you drain a whole map of its resources your not playing the game right.....

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by Darth Windu

Actually, i have never been beaten by anyone, so cut the bull. I dont have a problem with forward bases, and they are necessary in RoN.

 

You said you don't play multiplayer...so right you've technically never have been beaten by anyone. If you did play multiplayer, a few games does not give a good experience.

 

Originally posted by Darth Windu

Is a borders system necessary? Yes. With the example you two used, why didnt the Empire just build a forward base right next to Echo Base on Hoth? Why didnt the Rebels construct a fortress next to the Endor Shield Generator? The whole point here is that you are using ARMED UNITS to win the game, not buildings. Allowing people of place any structures next to someone else's base hurts gameplay and realism all at the same time.

 

Because the Empire on Hoth had SO much time to build a forward base, because the Rebels on Endor brought a fleet with them transporting all the materials to build one. Look, in RoN sometimes, city would get very close(about a few hundred meters on the map). That's exactly the same thing as a forward base except you need to expand your "territory".

 

Now with a zone surrounding your CC, you do not have the problem. Basically, to set up a forward base you would need a new CC or link many many many power cores. This would be a waste of time and ressources. If you can't be on the look-out for what is surrounding your base, big deal. You have plenty of neutral territory so you're not hampered by any stupid un-Star Wars-y Border system.

[FroZticles]

I would like a system where you start off with a walled area/base with metal gates and you can only build within that base. You expand to other bases outside of that one once you have run out of build space.

[DK_Viceroy]

I think LIAYD's system sounds the best and most realistic plus it seems the one that's more true to Star Wars the rest just woudn't fit correctly.

 

Forward Base building is never a problem if you didn't know they built a forward base you should find it because you should still be scouting and when you find it you should be able to destroy it or else your not playing the game right.

 

Froz I'd love to hear you say that to PBGuy since we were playing right there were just a lot of stalemates.

[Darth Windu]

luke - that is exactly my point though. The Empire couldnt build a base on Hoth, and the Rebels couldnt build a base on Endor. The whole concept here is that the FIGHTING SHOULD BE DONE BY UNITS. Combat becomes laughable when it is done mostly between buildings, because then you have lost all sense of realism.

 

In addition, having a borders system restricts turtling and stops tactics like building structures in the enemy base, which luke pointed out is anti-Star Wars. In addition, the player must expand to survive, so there will likely be more combat around various areas where borders clash, much like real life.

 

Look at it this way, without something like the borders system, it would be like the Republic coming down to assault Geonosis and instead of launching Gunships and Clone Troopers, instead building Defensive Turrets next to the Trade Federation Battleshi Cores.

[DK_Viceroy]

Windu Turtling isn't a problem yes it slows your attacker down but unless your turtling to build up your strength then you will loose.

 

we don't have a problem with people doing things like that Windu it's called Tactics and if you can't use them then you shouldn't be playing any Real Time STRATEGY since STRATEGY implies TACTICS.

 

There's no need to add something in that does nothing for gameplay or realism.