Darth Windu Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 luke - now your hipocracy is revealed. So Viceroy using a system that is exactly like RoN in that you build a structure and then garrison it with scientists/scholors to gain some sort of resource is not a rip-off, and yet my research idea where there are 3 fields instead of 5, and my research done where you 'invest' a percentage of incoming credits and cannot chose each individual technology while RoN's research is done the more tradition way where you can choose each technology - that IS a rip-off to you. You said in a previous thread you wondered if i would listen to sensible ideas or the like. I tell you now that i will listen to what you say when you are actually willing to listen to ME and cut your hipocracy. Viceroy - the point still stands, you said that Yoda can use force lighting - he cant, you are wrong. Just admit it. In regards to my template, would you care to elaborate on which games my template allegedly ripped-off and which particular features are involved? I should also point out that if you had actually read my template you would have easily seen that it is not a "RoNified version of Star Wars", but i suppose you are too small-minded for that. You only disagree, Viceroy, to things you dont understand or are not smart enough to grasp, and these things to you are 'unStarWarsy'. Perhaps you should take the time to investigate and understand the subject matter before you comment on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Very well. I might be biased trying to disagree just to disagree. Very well, I back off and concede the point. Learn from this Windu. EDIT: However, I still consider your template a rip-off of many elements of other RTS. I still stand by my arguments that you're trying to create a Civ building game while claiming not making a civ building game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberhagen Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Originally posted by Darth Windu luke - now your hipocracy is revealed. Yes, the horses are in charge now. Obey them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FroZticles Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Back on Topic In the next RTS I have fears about how they will use Yoda in the game. BFME really did not project the Gandalf imagine how he was in the films or book they made him an all powerful can dominate entire armies with his powers. Which is not what he was in the films he was passive and hardly used his powers in battle. I don't want to see an all powerful Yoda that can take down 100 stormtroopers with his saber or force push. He is an advisor not a warrior. He hardly even used his saber. Lets hope they capture him like he was in the films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 FroZ - i agree, Yoda really should be more of a General than a soldier. That is, of course, why i suggested having Jedi Heroes who act as Generals and buildable Jedi who act as fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 But then, why not have Jedi Heroes only? We could use models of Jedi we know instead of a generic one. I think we'll all agree that the Republic should not be allowed to spam Jedi, merely have more then the others(who are restricted to 1 or 2 Jedi heroes). We would be restricted by a certain number(12 maybe?) and they would cost a fair amount of ressources depending on their relative strength but of course, they can always gain experience through battle. The first Jedi available could be Coleman Trebor and the last one Yoda. Maybe you should have to build them in order, the weaker Jedi before you can build a stronger one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberhagen Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 There's a jedi called Coleman Trebor??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/colemantrebor/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FroZticles Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I think twelve heroes is a bit much for one side. Even then people would only choose the strongest of the bunch and the other are just wasted. I don't think the weakest to strongest will solve anything because a side like Empire would get Vader alot sooner then the Republic would get there strongest Yoda/Mace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 If balanced right it will be ok. Look at Coleman Trebor. Almost useless, perhaps crappiest hero of them all. There would be a restriction so that when people get Vader, the Republic will be able to get Mace Windu. Perhaps the Republic would have weaker but more numerous heroes while the Empire has stronger heroes that require more time to be built and more ressources required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FroZticles Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I don't see the problem with Coleman Trebor he was on the council so he must not be to bad. Republic should not have weak heroes they should have some of the strongest Mace, Yoda and Obi-Wan are not weak by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 But then why would we limit the most interesting units to just Heroes? AotC showed that they can and have been used as a large force, and a lot of them got killed. Obviously, they are one of the weapons available to the Republic, and they should be buildable for the Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMuffin Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I'm in with Windu on this one. Just make sure they're not overpowered, and cost a lot so that the reps can't have hundreds of them at the same time, and all should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 Actually, we don't see them in use as a large force. Being the purist you are, we only see 200 of them in the arena + who knows how many actually on the Battlefield which wouldn't be that much since their ranks there were formed from the few survivors from the arena and a few who joined. Now, considering there are 10 000 Jedi at the beginning of the clone wars, we can obviously do some simple math. The Clone Troopers were probably produced to millions of units. Now, if the Jedi are only 10 000, they might acount for less then 1% or the totality of the Republic forces. Therefore, they could not be used "en masse". I see no problem restricting them to just heroes as balancing can be done in a better way. Froz-Getting owned by a guy with blasters is pretty insulting, even if it's Jango Fett Oh and by the time the Republic was turning into the Empire, the Jedi became pretty weak compared to the others. Look at it this way, Anakin becomes Vader, Vader and Palpatine beats all of the Jedi, therefore Vader and Palpatine heroes> Republican Jedi heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FroZticles Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 If I was a Jedi I would rather go down in history as the Jedi that got taken out by Jango then the Jedi that was killed by a weak ass Battle Droid which most of them suffered. Jedi were really spread thin across the galaxy once the Battle of Geonosis was over most of them were given Campaigns on other planets to continue the onslaught of the Separatists. I did not say Empire heroes would be weak I said Republic would have some of the strongest. Vader/Palp, Yoda/Mace, Greivous/Dooku, Luke would be the strongest for each side (assuming there is only 4 factions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I said they would have weak-er heroes. Yoda and Mace would still be strong but not as strong as Vader and Palpatine or Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FroZticles Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Yoda still dominates them with knowledge of the force. 800 years of experience just pays off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberhagen Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Anyone called Trebor should be extra-strong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Originally posted by FroZticles Yoda still dominates them with knowledge of the force. 800 years of experience just pays off. Yet why wasn't he able to stop Palpatine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted December 23, 2004 Author Share Posted December 23, 2004 Maybe because in Episode 6 Palpy looks like he's 8000 years old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FroZticles Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Who knows have to wait for Episode 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 luke - but the point is they were able to put together 200 Jedi to strike at Geonosis. Add to that the other 9500 Jedi around, and there is no good reason why they shouldnt be buildable. As people have said before, Jedi are one of the main features of Star Wars, certainly the most interesting aspect. To limit them to being only heroes would limit the game and the possabilities, and would unfairly disadvantage the Republic. As i have said before, all you do is give everyone Jedi heroes, but also give the Republic weaker buildable Jedi to preserve the realism of the films and to enable players to enjoy slicing and dicing droid armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 So I suppose, you agree with me that Clone Troopers should be weaker then droids then? Weaker then stormies(although I don't why since they're basically the same) and Rebel Troopers(well that's normal but hey)? They should also have weaker vehicles. To allow Jedi as a viable force, you have to dumb down lots of other features of the Republic Army. I know we can give other civs bounty hunters but as Malak says in KOTOR:"No mere bounty hunter can defeat a Jedi". Or something along those lines. So technically, it doesn't make much sense. Also, having a such a specific counter unit is bad for gameplay. It's like the idea of having the snowspeeder specifically armed with the harpoon to defeat the AT-AT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 25, 2004 Share Posted December 25, 2004 luke - no. It's all about the individual civs and how they play. As i've said before, the Jedi should be really strong, but also really expensive and take a long time to build. In addition, while they would be great against droid armies, they should also be very vulnerable to massed fire tactics, like in the Geonosian Arena. In terms of an RTS, although more droids were destroyed, the cost and build times involved would give the victory to the Confederacy because it would take less time and money to rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 25, 2004 Share Posted December 25, 2004 This undermines their usefulness. Why would people bother making this supposedly powerful warriors if they're crushed by enemy numbers. To balance them out, they would need to be very few in numbers, possibly 10 or 15(this is not a static limit but more like the number the average player will make, considering the built time and cost of the unit). The Confederacy can just spawn hundreds of troopers and the 10-15 Jedi would get mowed down like nothing. Even with support from other units. It all comes down to the same as having 12 Jedi heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.