crat0s Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 The truth behind the games plotholes, bugs, and frame rate is revealed on TheForce.net http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/story/KOTOR2_The_Incompletion_Controversy_90085.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerhs Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 ^^^^ this doesn't surprise me in the least bit. the question is, as always, will it change anything? educated guess: nope. still, at least news of this is making headway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derc Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Of course, I completely agree with the author. *shakes fists* DAMN YOU, LUC-- Oh wait, is LucasForums affliated with LA? Um, ehhh, uhh what I really was going to say was, "Keep up the good work, LucasArts!" Yeah, that's what I was going to say...um, yeah... Crap, gotta go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boba Rhett Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 We're for the fans by the fans. Slam away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NenDaiKi Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 I haven't been here for a while, but was compelled to return after seeing that on theforce.net BEfore I thought I'd just misse dout on a cool sidequest. Now I find out the logic to the entire story was contained in that timeline between Telos and Malachor... I am VERY pissed. I won't even get into it like I did on IGN. Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derc Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by Boba Rhett We're for the fans by the fans. Slam away. Yay! That'd make a good sig... Enemy sighted. Commencing eradication... The Freedom Fighters______vs.______The Evil LucasArts .......................................... ........................................ .................................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellderon Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Doesn't surprise me... With Lucasarts craking thew whip, it's a miracle the game ended up good.... On of the biggest mistakes in TLS was TIME... Think about it..the sith fleet appears SUDDENLY and attacks Telos. By the time it takes you to go from the pole of the planet to the station, help from Onderon & Dantooine has allready arrived??? WTF? Isn't hyperspace travel supposed to last hours..days even? (Like - teh sorjourn was due to arrive in several days!!!) and Mandalore going to summon the Mandalorians??? I mean, the whole story would have sense ONLY if tehy have detected the sith fleet long before hte attakc started (and I'm talking days before).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 That article makes it sound like any of these issues have only occurred with TSL. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montnoir Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 After reading the article, I get the feeling LucasArts are not to blame. They hired a company to make the KOTOR sequel and be done with it by christmas 2004. Obsidian accepted then they made a game that was way to big for them to finish in the time they had to work and ended up cutting it and now we blame LucasArts that they rushed the game when it was Obsidian that tried to bite more than they could chew, meaning their game was to big for them to finish in the time they had, but they knew they only had a year when they signed the contract. This is what I understood, maybe I'm wrong. But that's how it seems, to me after this article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drazin Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Yes, but LA has a responsibility to release a finished product. Game deadlines have been extended due to unfinished projects since computer games were invented. Look at Horizons or Shadowbane, they were slated for release years before they actually hit the shelves. And even then they had many many bugs and flaws at release. Anarchy Online was nearly unplayable for months after release. Asherons Call 2, well lets not even go there. Lineage2 had problems and unfinished projects that are still being implemented and fixed. It doesnt matter who makes the game, it is the responsibility of the Lead developer to make sure that their product is ready for release, even if it means a delay to complete a sound product. Obsidian's vision was remarkable, LA's greed was short sighted and potentially ruined a great string of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montnoir Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by Drazin Obsidian's vision was remarkable, LA's greed was short sighted and potentially ruined a great string of games. Had Obsidian been allowed to finish their vision and ideas they wanted, then indeed it would have been groundbreaking and utterly crushed everything with their storytelling and character development - possibly changing the rpg market and genre. But that wasn't what they signed to do. They had a contract and had to deliver what they promised or break the contract. Not LA fault as they just wanted their contract to be fulfilled. As it's LA money, Obsidian eats with every week of production. ... unless of course, the contract was for summer 2005 then in sep/oct 2004 they change their mind and demand a christmas release from Obsidian. In THAT case LA deserves all shyt and more, that has been thrown at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Aleera Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 I simply think that both Lucasart and Obsidian have responsibility for releasing TSL unfinished (yes, unfinished, because I do not see any reason to use the appropriate term), Lucasart because they chose to have the game on shelves for Christmas 2004, finished or not, and also Obsidian because if they knew that was impossible to complete it within December, why they signed the contract? But considering that it would have been a really better game if it would have been finished, there are some real possibilities that the game can be completed with a big patch or whatever, or I signed the petition only because I know that the game is unfinished, but there is no way to see it with a decent ending and without bugs, uncompleted quest and similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by montnoir After reading the article, I get the feeling LucasArts are not to blame. They hired a company to make the KOTOR sequel and be done with it by christmas 2004. Obsidian accepted then they made a game that was way to big for them to finish in the time they had to work and ended up cutting it and now we blame LucasArts that they rushed the game when it was Obsidian that tried to bite more than they could chew, meaning their game was to big for them to finish in the time they had, but they knew they only had a year when they signed the contract. This is what I understood, maybe I'm wrong. But that's how it seems, to me after this article. IIRC, TSL was originally slated for simultaneous release for February 2005. If LucasArts pushed the XBox deadline by two months, then it might explain OE's challenges. If their original project plan was altered then they couldn't have been working on the PC version while burning the midnight oil to get the console version out in time. Meet the deadline to appease LA then turn around and do it all over again for the PC version deadline. So how is this OE's fault again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Originally posted by Achilles IIRC, TSL was originally slated for simultaneous release for February 2005. If LucasArts pushed the XBox deadline by two months, then it might explain OE's challenges. If their original project plan was altered then they couldn't have been working on the PC version while burning the midnight oil to get the console version out in time. Meet the deadline to appease LA then turn around and do it all over again for the PC version deadline. So how is this OE's fault again? I remember that it was supposed to be a simultaneous release for the X-Box and PC. I recall reading this in an interview many months ago. They said it was to avoid the mess KOTOR 1 had with an early X-Box release and a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay later PC release (more likely to promote M$ platform). I was expecting it along with others that it would be an early 2005 release. I recall asking the worker in Gamestop that it was slated for 2005. Imagine my surprise that the X-Box version came out in 2004 with the PC release later. Imagine my lack of surprise when I see all the things wrong with KOTOR 2 and look at the X-Box release of late 2004. This situation screams someone pushing the "D**n the bugs, release now!" buttons. And spamming it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
degage Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Originally posted by montnoir After reading the article, I get the feeling LucasArts are not to blame. They hired a company to make the KOTOR sequel and be done with it by christmas 2004. Obsidian accepted then they made a game that was way to big for them to finish in the time they had to work and ended up cutting it and now we blame LucasArts that they rushed the game when it was Obsidian that tried to bite more than they could chew, meaning their game was to big for them to finish in the time they had, but they knew they only had a year when they signed the contract. This is what I understood, maybe I'm wrong. But that's how it seems, to me after this article. Yes but did Obsidian get the nod cause other, more stable devolpers looked at the timeline and gave lucasarts the finger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivy Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Originally posted by degage Yes but did Obsidian get the nod cause other, more stable devolpers looked at the timeline and gave lucasarts the finger? no Bioware gave it to Obsidian because they had two other games they were working on. i have to agree that they are both probably partly to blame for kotor II being 'unfinished' LA probably asked OE if they could finish in time for a Christmas release. OE must of thought they could do it so they said yes. I really don’t think LA would have pushed for an earlier released if OE had said that they couldn’t do it. kotor II was always going to sell millions regardless of the time of year it was sold. i think the main reason for moving kotor II forward was because they wanted a bigger gap between the release of kotor II and republic commando. had they kept the same release date i sure the sales of RC would have suffered. apparently OE had been working on kotor II even before kotor I had been released, so they had plenty of time, especially seeing as they were using the same engine and had plenty of help from Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Originally posted by degage gave lucasarts the finger? I don't think anyone would give Lucasarts the finger. Why turn down huge sales? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr. Thanatos Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 They shoulda pulled a hl2 and pushed the release date forward a few years. Or is that pulling a Halo? Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
degage Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Originally posted by Prime I don't think anyone would give Lucasarts the finger. Why turn down huge sales? Cause all this "evidence" of a rush product has reflected very badly on Obsidian. So much that a good number of people have refused or stated hesitation on their other games, and so much so that Obsidian has seriously considered shutting down their own forums. Perhaps a company that cares very much about it's reputation might have seen this timeline as unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobo Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 ohh boy you dont want to get me attacking on the game lol it was fun, but most of it was a disapointment, like the Ravager looking too much like a certain ship, lol Sion was good, but there were barely any "behind the scenes" like with malak talking to calo nord on the bridge of the Leviathan. Nilhilus was a huge disapointment in his bad role, as well as Atris. I felt that Dantooine was very incomplete, and if you played Dantooine as your last planet the enclave rebuilds itself in a matter of seconds! i didnt like how some party members joined without a reason. Like the handmaiden, or G0-T0. i didnt like how they ended most of the party by taking them all out in a crash to malachor. I didnt like how you couldnt return to Onderon and to top it all off, this game is most obviously rushed. Errr... mybad. ok im done ranting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yst Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 Regardless of Obsidian's role, however one wishes to laud or condemn them, one thing is true of Lucasarts' respsonsibility, and that is that they are inherently at fault for releasing a game which failed to meet, by any stretch of the imagination, a reasonable level of Quality Assurance under any circumstances as a full price feature title. As the publisher, Lucasarts is personally responsible for a large portion of final testing and quality assurance which should determine whether the title is at an acceptable level of playability for release. Lucasarts QA apparently determined that the title was indeed not acceptably stable or complete, and released it anyway. And they would be at fault for that, whether they were dealing with Obsidian or Bioware, on a one year development schedule or a three year development schedule, with no release date postponements, or repeated, persistently release date postponements. They failed in this respect, to function as a respectable publisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grishnakh Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 Originally posted by Bobo i didnt like how they ended most of the party by taking them all out in a crash to malachor. You're wrong about that, after you defeat Kreia you can ask her about the future of the different party members, and none of them died in that crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montnoir Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 Originally posted by Yst Regardless of Obsidian's role, however one wishes to laud or condemn them, one thing is true of Lucasarts' respsonsibility, and that is that they are inherently at fault for releasing a game which failed to meet, by any stretch of the imagination, a reasonable level of Quality Assurance under any circumstances as a full price feature title. As the publisher, Lucasarts is personally responsible for a large portion of final testing and quality assurance which should determine whether the title is at an acceptable level of playability for release. Lucasarts QA apparently determined that the title was indeed not acceptably stable or complete, and released it anyway. They failed in this respect, to function as a respectable publisher. This is largely incorrect (unless you are referring to the X-Box version, which I know nothing about). The pc-version, however, has some bugs, as do ALL games, there is no show-stopper, nothing that damages gameplay, nothing that stops you from completing the game. The game works perfectly and much better than some other recent and more advertised releases. The cut things in the game would have brought more character development and taken the story in a different direction but they weren't necessary. The game can be completed and understood as it stands right now and a patch is on its way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nas77 Posted March 12, 2005 Share Posted March 12, 2005 Originally posted by montnoir The cut things in the game would have brought more character development and taken the story in a different direction but they weren't necessary. The game can be completed and understood as it stands right now and a patch is on its way. Kinda changed your tune there since that bioware v obsidian debate huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montnoir Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 Not at all nas seven seven. I've always thought like that. I never said that the story couldn't be understood or that the game was bad. Far from it! My beef was with the presentation of the story and wrongness of some of the main "traits" and driving force of the Exile and the Sith Lords. The story lacked in very many aspects and still does. And also bear in mind that, our discussion was in a comparison between K1 and TSL. The point was that the story could be understood with what we saw and got in TSL, but with the extended or alternate scenes, the game would have been even better and in that regard K1 wins, as it is more complete. ...and we never ended that discussion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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