Darth Andrew Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 enlisted men or clones? From the movies, I thought that they were enlisted men, but while reading a magizine I saw a Star Wars Trading Card Game ad, and one of the cards shown was the scout trooper. Below its name it said something like: Imperial Clone Scout Trooper. So does anyone have any reliable sources on which is it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boba Rhett Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 They started out as all clones but then they started massive recruiting programs after the clone wars from what I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Apparently Lucas now intends them to be Clones, all. This from the AOTC director's commentary. According to a LucasFilm rep (Pablo Hidalgo if I'm spelling his name right) in the OT era they've mixed in other "templates" for Clones from a variety of sources other than Jango and that's why they don't all look exactly alike (or like Temura Morrison). So yeah, what we all thought based on the EU seems to have changed... It's possible that the retcon will be that after the Emperor died the Remnant didn't have enough money or time to build more clones and/or the tech was lost and they were forced to use recruites or draftees. We could say that any EU characters that are clearly not clones who claim to have been in the Stormtrooper ranks must have been non-clone Stormtrooper OFFICERS (Academies are for officers) rather than just plain troopers. Or else they were clones and somehow didn't realize they were (amnesia? brainwashing?). Another problem is that even if the fact that they were clones was known only to the Senate and Palpatine's inner circle, it would be strange that nobody in the military would notice. And since the Rebellion is made up of troops, officers and Senate officials who defected, it would be strange that none of them would realize Stormies were clones. Also, in battles they would have had to see the faces of Stormtroopers they took the helmets off of after taking them prisoner or taking their armor after killing them (like Luke and Han did), so why would they be "shocked" to see two men who looked identical every so often? A lot of twins? I dunno, I leave it up to those authors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 This'll likely be revealed in RotS (for sure this time, not just EU references). *Statement in a leaked RotS visual dictionary page* Clones are also being grown on other worlds, with cells produced from new templates. Which means they're using other cloning facilities than Kamino, and aren't using the Jango template (bad decision). After Palpatine's creation of the Empire, academies for the training of non-clone Imperial officers will appear. So this means the officers aren't clones. Since there's no Jedi to be commanders, they need real people to take their place in command. Maybe the grunt Stormtroopers are clones, but their officers (including field commanders who wear armor in combat, hence the color-coded pauldrons on Sandtroopers) are enlisted men who went to these academies. Come to think of it, EU sources of ex-Imperials (i.e. Kyle Katarn, General Madine, Biggs Darklighter, even Han Solo) portray them as officers. Maybe we'll get more clarification through RotS materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Guess I'll take your word for it (not reading the spoilers, but assuming your info is accurate). Of course unless it's explicitly stated in the new movie plenty of people won't accept it. They'll just say that in the 20+ years between trilogies it changed or something. But since the EU (written during and after ROTS) will surely go in line with what Lucas wants, whatever he wants from the film will be supported. Still rather than just disregard those old sources they'll probably try to salvage them either by saying mixed in recruites or lots and lots of clone templates and possible brainwashing so they don't realize they are clones and a massive news blackout so nobody realizes it outside of Palpy's inner circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 In my opinion, after the clone troopers, they should have left cloning alone. It doesn't make sence when compared with the OT, Video Games, and Books. Even in Jedi Academy, a mercenary said: "I can hardly see in this thing, its like being a stormtrooper all over again!" His partner replied: "You were a stormtrooper!?" "Yeah, but I couldn't stand taking orders, so I jumped ship first chance I got." A clone wouldn't "jump ship" as he said. I just wish lucas had left a few things the way they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Andrew Posted March 31, 2005 Author Share Posted March 31, 2005 Yeah, it ticks me off that he is disregarding pretty much everything that people have created for the expanded universe. He would barley be able to make these movies if it weren't for all the money EU stuff brings in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupes. Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Originally posted by Darth Andrew Yeah, it ticks me off that he is disregarding pretty much everything that people have created for the expanded universe. He would barley be able to make these movies if it weren't for all the money EU stuff brings in. And just how would they be able to make any money if it wasn't for GL ans his movies ? Lucas can do watherver he wants with his movies and I don't blame him. Let's not turn this into a EU vs movies thread though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Andrew Posted March 31, 2005 Author Share Posted March 31, 2005 Originally posted by coupes. And just how would they be able to make any money if it wasn't for GL ans his movies ? Yes, true, but still.... Oh well. *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 His own ideas conflict with his own movies! Han was an imperial (I know what you guys said before, but in actuallity we don't know what Hans rank was!) There are too many inconsistencies. Everytime I watch the OT the shadow of the prequels hangs over me... they are not as enjoyable as they once were. So coupes., you mean to tell me that the EU writers/game developers make their money only on Star Wars? If Star Wars wasn't around they would be writing other books or making other games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupes. Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 So coupes., you mean to tell me that the EU writers/game developers make their money only on Star Wars? If Star Wars wasn't around they would be writing other books or making other games. No, of course not. You're putting words in my mouth. Darth Andrew said GL would barely be able to make his movies without the profit from the EU stuff, which I beleive to be totally untrue. My point was that all tha EU stuff wouldn't sell half as good as it does if it didn't have a "Star Wars" label on it, it's not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Originally posted by coupes. No, of course not. You're putting words in my mouth. Darth Andrew said GL would barely be able to make his movies without the profit from the EU stuff, which I beleive to be totally untrue. My point was that all tha EU stuff wouldn't sell half as good as it does if it didn't have a "Star Wars" label on it, it's not the same thing. Oh Ok And TK- Thats my point, that merc wouldn't have been a clone. He would have been a normal person. Although wouldn't he have had to take orders under Tavion? Kinda dumb, but either way, he wasn't a clone. About Han- I am not exactly sure how he served the Empire, but I know somehow he wound up on Kashykk and saved Chewie from slavery/death or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 It never says in the movies that Han Solo was ever part of the Empire, does it? Where does this info that he was an ex-Imperial actually come from originally? I'm just curious. 'Cause the charge is being made that Lucas is contradicting his own movies, but I don't remember anything about Han being a former Imperial from the films alone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by Kurgan Where does this info that he was an ex-Imperial actually come from originally? I'm just curious. EU books, Han Solo trilogy. But there's really not contradiction in the movies. Not to mention, who cares about EU, Lucas can do whatever the hell he wants with his movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Okay thanks. I kind of figured, but it's been a long time and for all I knew it was in the original Star Wars novel (which would make it G-level canon). I haven't read the Han Solo trilogy, so I asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Stormtroopers are clones. Full Stop. Next question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Originally posted by Prime Stormtroopers are clones. ...Except their officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Originally posted by TK-8252 ...Except their officers. APRIL FOOL! Just kidding, I agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Originally posted by TK-8252 ...Except their officers. You mean like General Veers? I'm pretty sure they are not stormtroopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Originally posted by Prime You mean like General Veers? I'm pretty sure they are not stormtroopers. Like the Sandtroopers with colored pauldrons ( http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/ep4/moseisl4.jpg ) and the black-uniformed officers in ANH ( http://theforce.net/swtc/Pix/cards/ccg/praji.jpg ). Edit: On the subject of Sandtroopers, it appears they are all chosen from recruits. Black pauldrons are those of cadets, white pauldrons are those of sergeants, and orange pauldrons are like I said the squad leaders. Sandtrooper units stress independant-thinking, so it's only logical for them to pick certain academy students to make up these units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Originally posted by TK-8252 Like the Sandtroopers with colored pauldrons ( http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/ep4/moseisl4.jpg ) and the black-uniformed officers in ANH ( http://theforce.net/swtc/Pix/cards/ccg/praji.jpg ). One thing though, the "Clonetroopers" in AOTC had "rank colors" too, and yet they were all clones. What evidence do we have that the non-clone "Stormtrooper Officers" wear the armor, other than the EU? It wouldn't be a big deal, I don't have a problem with the idea, but I'm not sure it's a given. I mean, the EU basically assumed (pre-AOTC) as we all did, that Stormtroopers were not clones. Now I'm not saying we have to have a scene of an obviously non-clone guy putting on the helmet and gear for it to be "canon" I'm just wondering if there's a G-level source to support this. One would think that if the clones always wear the armor, so would the officers (ie: either always wear it or never wear it)... or is there some rule that the clones have to wear it all the time, but the officers have the "privelage" of not having to wear it because it's uncomfortable (and not "dress uniform") or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 That leaked visual dictionary page... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Originally posted by TK-8252 That leaked visual dictionary page... If that's G-level canon then fine, I'll again take your word for it, and assuming whatever that was carries over into the OT period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 I have that one, I can check it when I get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Obsidian Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 Remember that the Kaminoans used metabolic age enhancers to cut the time that it takes to grow a full-fledged army. If all the Stormtroopers were clones, by the time of RotJ (24 years after AotC), the clones, which age at thrice the rate of normal Mandalorians, will have genetically aged 72 years and possibly undergone clone psychosis. Therefore, all Stormtroopers are enlisted/drafted/threatened/enslaved into service. Carrida doesn't turn out 100% Imperial Officers, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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