How to become a Jedi

[General Kenobi]

@lukeiamyourdad

 

Well I tend to agree in that. I can't think of a great deal of things that aren't "instictive" in regards to our bodies. I mean yeah your brain "wills" your pinkie toe to move but since your body is connected to every other part; that would be more like a lightswitch being connected to a lightsocket thru a wire.

 

It must have taken YEARS of meditation and practice before they could put that forth in the way of mental control in will over their own bodies.

 

I just remember I thought that was AMAZING. The narrator dude's coffee froze in about 2 minutes rock solid in the cup while on camera. He was holding it and the next drink it was a solid. Then there below him on a huge rock bare ass naked save for a tunic around the waist was that little monk. The narrator had on an artic jacket, gloves and the whole works.

 

I imagine (especially since like I said above with the light socket) that we could control our own bodies to a great degree. I mean he should have frozen on that rock in about an hour at best (esp. at night). I think the way they did this was the same way a serial killer can lie on a lie detector and NEVER set it off.

[Vladimir-Vlada]

People, I've been thinking about this thread, our claims and this disscusion. It looks like that we won't be able to conclude neither that the Force exists, nor the Force doesn't exist, because there is not enough proof, evidence or information to conclude anything.

 

So, if we want to find an answer to his thread, we are going to have to expand this to start reasearching, and gathering our own proof, evidence and information ourselves, but we will need to expand this also to the SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY! SERIOUSLY!

We should gather our own proof, evidence, information, anything, ANYTHING that would argument them enough to start the investigation of the existence of the Force themselves also. Because that question was never started now wasn't it?

 

If we wish to answer to this thread, we are going to have to make a letter to send them our own claims, proof, evidence, information that support us, so they could start the reasearch.

 

What do you say?

[Emperor Devon]

Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada

so they could start the reasearch.

 

Who are "they"? The scientific community?

[Vladimir-Vlada]

Who are "they"? The scientific community?

 

Of course they ARE!!!!

[RevanA4]

Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada

People, I've been thinking about this thread, our claims and this disscusion. It looks like that we won't be able to conclude neither that the Force exists, nor the Force doesn't exist, because there is not enough proof, evidence or information to conclude anything.

 

So, if we want to find an answer to his thread, we are going to have to expand this to start reasearching, and gathering our own proof, evidence and information ourselves, but we will need to expand this also to the SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY! SERIOUSLY!

We should gather our own proof, evidence, information, anything, ANYTHING that would argument them enough to start the investigation of the existence of the Force themselves also. Because that question was never started now wasn't it?

 

If we wish to answer to this thread, we are going to have to make a letter to send them our own claims, proof, evidence, information that support us, so they could start the reasearch.

 

What do you say?

 

 

 

that is a good idea but the possiblity that they will investigate our claims is slim to none the scientific community is a very stuborn community when it comes to changing their ideas about anything it will be very hard to get them to listen to use no matter how we tried and on the off chance that even one of them would be willing to listen to use they would not be take seriously by the rest of the scientific community and their findings would be heavely critasized and ridaculed if we want to do this we need to be very consice in our findings and word them with scinetific term and the like.

[Vladimir-Vlada]

that is a good idea but the possiblity that they will investigate our claims is slim to none the scientific community is a very stuborn community when it comes to changing their ideas about anything it will be very hard to get them to listen to use no matter how we tried and on the off chance that even one of them would be willing to listen to use they would not be take seriously by the rest of the scientific community and their findings would be heavely critasized and ridaculed if we want to do this we need to be very consice in our findings and word them with scinetific term and the like.

I agree that it won't be easy, and that's why we are going to gather evidence during one week (by oure evidence of our claims I mean: video footage, doctor certificates, and eye witnesses of anything realated to empathy, telekenesis; I mean EVERYTHING), so who wants to make and gather answers?

[lukeiamyourdad]

That's not how you'll convince any scientist.

 

All these "evidences" are worthless if they cannot be truly tested.

 

For a scientific study to be taken seriously, you have to make a report, complete with any numbers you find and any conclusion you come up with.

Your conclusion needs to be capable of being verified.

In other words, in order to prove the existence of the Force, you'd have to make some tests, with many test subjects, write down everything that you've done and make your conclusions.

 

Then somebody else has to follow the same method you did and if it still works and the conclusion is similar, it can be considered accurate and a credible.

 

For anything to have scientific value, it needs to be able to be repeated all the time and the effect or conclusion of the experiment must always be the same.

 

Testimonies can be disproven, videos can be fake and doctor certificates falsified.

[Vladimir-Vlada]

Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad

That's not how you'll convince any scientist.

 

All these "evidences" are worthless if they cannot be truly tested.

 

For a scientific study to be taken seriously, you have to make a report, complete with any numbers you find and any conclusion you come up with.

Your conclusion needs to be capable of being verified.

In other words, in order to prove the existence of the Force, you'd have to make some tests, with many test subjects, write down everything that you've done and make your conclusions.

 

Then somebody else has to follow the same method you did and if it still works and the conclusion is similar, it can be considered accurate and a credible.

 

For anything to have scientific value, it needs to be able to be repeated all the time and the effect or conclusion of the experiment must always be the same.

 

Testimonies can be disproven, videos can be fake and doctor certificates falsified.

 

HELLO!!!

 

That is exatcly what I was talking about. I am not ignorant not to that. I know the scientific method, and that's why I sugested that we ALL make claims, and which one is the most accurate will be taken as the backup theory of us, combinations could work too. You could be a part of this if you want an answer.

 

For the videos and that stuff... I guess we will have to demonstrate our discoveries in front of the scientists of the Academies of Science and Art.

[RevanA4]

Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada

 

HELLO!!!

 

That is exatcly what I was talking about. I am not ignorant not to that. I know the scientific method, and that's why I sugested that we ALL make claims, and which one is the most accurate will be taken as the backup theory of us, combinations could work too. You could be a part of this if you want an answer.

 

For the videos and that stuff... I guess we will have to demonstrate our discoveries in front of the scientists of the Academies of Science and Art.

 

dude all he was saying is that it is gonna be hard for us to be taken seriously and to get a scientist the watch our demonstration would be a step in the right direction and even then they might not believe what they see.

 

and the scientific community is a very closed community and getting them to listen to an outsider is going to be difficult to say the least and not even possible for us to achieve in a short time and it would that atleast a year to do a proper study and then getting them to listen would take another year and by the time someone took us seriously we will be old and decreped and full of gray hair

[lukeiamyourdad]

I don't think you know anything about Scientific method.

 

What the hell is a back up claim?

When you need a "back up" claim, it already shows how weak your study or argument is.

Plus, simply choosing a claim that's the most accurate?

How can you do that?

It's utterly ridiculous. It's like picking the claim that seems to make the most sense even if it isn't proven and backed by a serious research.

 

You will demonstrate what? What research have you done? Zero.

 

All you have are a few claims, testimonies and pseudo-scientific researches that can be put down in a second for being either badly done, incomplete or utterly ridiculous.

[RevanA4]

dude I'm a science nerd and don't need some yuppy telling me other wise and besides even if we had a method like i said earlier it is going to be hard to get them to listen to what we have to say and then even harder to get them not to laugh at us and say we are nuts cuz the scientific community is very stuborn in their views and they would try to come up with another explination for example the consept of zero gravity purpulsion is a widely debated consept even though some of the pramier minds in physics are say it is possible they still are getting told that they are crazy and there are plans in the works to make such a purpulsion unit and to look back in history people who thought the sun was the center of our solar system were laughed at eventhough they had proof and other examples like that to see what i mean

[Vladimir-Vlada]

Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad

I don't think you know anything about Scientific method.

 

What the hell is a back up claim?

When you need a "back up" claim, it already shows how weak your study or argument is.

Plus, simply choosing a claim that's the most accurate?

How can you do that?

It's utterly ridiculous. It's like picking the claim that seems to make the most sense even if it isn't proven and backed by a serious research.

 

You will demonstrate what? What research have you done? Zero.

 

All you have are a few claims, testimonies and pseudo-scientific researches that can be put down in a second for being either badly done, incomplete or utterly ridiculous.

Calm down! We haven't even started researching. We are now decieding whether or not are we going to research this more proffesionnally with testing and sorts. And it's not simply chosing, we will with honesty exchange information (I won't insult anyone I SWEAR!) and which one is the most accurate will be our theory. And, for now, we are just gathering arguments for the scientific community to start their serious research.

 

And most importantly:

 

DO YOU WANT AN ANSWER OR NOT?

[Vladimir-Vlada]

to listen to what we have to say and then even harder to get them not to laugh at us and say we are nuts cuz the scientific community is very stuborn in their views and they would try to come up with another explination for example the consept of zero gravity purpulsion is a widely debated consept even though some of the pramier minds in physics are say it is possible they still are getting told that they are crazy

I see your point. I think that they are stubborn too, but there must be SOMEONE who'll be willing to at least listen to us.

[lukeiamyourdad]

All of those scientific debates still have some grounds to fall on, you people have none.

People laughing at the sun being the center of the universe is not relevent. These people who tried to disprove heliocentrism had no scientific proof for their claims. They only had some observations and the good old Bible.

About zero gravity propulsion, it's a moot point. At least, they're trying to use actually science to prove their point.

 

 

First off, thinking about trying to prove the existence of Force is totally farfetched. Look, it's something created by George Lucas.

 

I'm sure all of you are atheist.

You'd be the first to yell out there's no proof that God exists.

Yet you're ready to try to prove something that's even less likely to exist then God.

You're trying to prove the existence of some "force" that ties all life together.

[RevanA4]

ok just for grins suposse it does exisit but not in the way george lucas discribes it and say you are wrong and all it takes is a spiritual awareness

 

@Lukeiamyourdaddy stop trying to prove eveybody wrong

[Vladimir-Vlada]

All of those scientific debates still have some grounds to fall on, you people have none.

No kidding! Then what are we trying to deciede here, AH?

 

About zero gravity propulsion, it's a moot point. At least, they're trying to use actually science to prove their point.

I am interested in zero-gravity and anti-gravity and I believe in them, and that surely means that I am not a lost soul.

 

First off, thinking about trying to prove the existence of Force is totally farfetched. Look, it's something created by George Lucas.

And you're now being nice and trying to show us the right way, and not to busy ourselves with that, right?

 

I'm sure all of you are atheist.

Yes, I'm a hardcore atheist.

 

You'd be the first to yell out there's no proof that God

exists.

Read my claims, then jump to connclusions. And make yours already!

 

 

Yes, I would be the first to yell out that God doesn't exist.

 

Yet you're ready to try to prove something that's even less likely to exist then God.

You're trying to prove the existence of some "force" that ties all life together.

Now the life tieing part is thick.

[lukeiamyourdad]

You're deciding on a claim to fall back on which is what I already proved you that it's utterly ridiculous and means you have nothing. No realistic hypothesis.

 

There's no way in heaven or in hell you can prove this.

You do NOT have the monetary capacity to conduct a serious research.

Your theory is farfetched.

 

Plus, you'd need instruments and people to conduct this research.

 

You'd need:

 

-A large group of people randomly selected. To conduct this already requires mucho dinero.

-The ability to record people's thoughts. Technology doesn't permit this. Yet.

-Instruments to read brain waves. Where's the money?

-Anything else to be able to "detect" this force that surrounds us. Which probably costs more cash.

 

And it simply is hypocrisy to deny the existence of God, yet accept the existence of another form of power.

 

If so, going through your logic, people who have gotten these images of God or felt connections to God in one way or another, are credible, which in turn, proves that God exists.

You will have to use similar claims, which none are scientifically proven, or able to be scientifically proven.

 

This is a matter of FAITH, not SCIENCE.

Science is based on the search for facts and evidences, this is a search for the Holy Grail.

[RevanA4]

first off you are not intierly correct in your asumption that you can not monitor brain wave and second there is a force around us it is called and Aora and it is visible to special cameras and you can train your self to see them so and yes before you ask i can prove this there are books on it and second you don't nessisaraly have to pick people at random anyway who's to say they won't volinteer for a chance to go down in history and finally there is proof that telepathy exists already

[Vladimir-Vlada]

You're deciding on a claim to fall back on which is what I already proved you that it's utterly ridiculous and means you have nothing. No realistic hypothesis.

Not yet, but soon, everyone willing for an answer will be swarming this Forum, and you will be required to apologise (VICTORY! ).

 

You do NOT have the monetary capacity to conduct a serious research.

I don't have enough to prove the existence, but neither do YOU have enough to prove non-existence, it just hasn't been reasearched enough. And who says that we'll be doing all the work? They should be doing some work too.

 

And it simply is hypocrisy to deny the existence of God, yet accept the existence of another form of power.

There is a difference between the definitions of God and the Force. By God, he is the ruler and creator of the universe (NOT TRUE! Universe-formed by itself; Universe-natural thins happen accidentaly). The Force is different, to say the least.

 

If so, going through your logic, people who have gotten these images of God or felt connections to God in one way or another, are credible, which in turn, proves that God exists.

 

You compare God to the FORCE??!!

 

Science is based on the search for facts and evidences, this is a search for the Holy Grail.

Right. And from time to time, even in science there is a search for the Holy Grail (not created by a super being), like anti-gravity and tachyons, wating to be found to grant immortality to mankind:D

(From Indiana Jones: The Last Crusade)

 

[Vladimir-Vlada]

Originally posted by jedigoku

first off you are not intierly correct in your asumption that you can not monitor brain wave and second there is a force around us it is called and Aora and it is visible to special cameras and you can train your self to see them so and yes before you ask i can prove this there are books on it and second you don't nessisaraly have to pick people at random anyway who's to say they won't volinteer for a chance to go down in history and finally there is proof that telepathy exists already

Someone has started working earlier... Anyway, we'll disscus this tomorrow, I am tired now...

[lukeiamyourdad]

You can indeed monitor brain waves. Where did I say otherwise. You just don't have the monetary capabilities to do it.

 

All I could find on this "Aora" is this: http://www.crystalhealing-aora.com/aora.html

 

An auras exist in the form of a magnetic field, but the belief that one can sense another's aura and come up with conclusions of their spiritual, emotional and physical aspect has never been proven.

 

 

Searching a bit, I found this about telepathy:

 

Scientists have attempted to obtain evidence for telepathy. A pioneer in this effort was Joseph Banks Rhine of Duke University. In 1927, Rhine began conducting what are still considered the most famous experiments in this area. Rhine tested hundreds of people using specially designed cards developed by his colleague, Karl Zener. These so-called "ESP cards" consisted of a deck of 25 cards, five each with one of five figures on its face (a star, a cross, a square, a circle, or three wavy lines). After the cards were shuffled, subjects attempted to correctly guess the figure on the card after the figure was mentally "sent" to them by a person looking at it. The number of correct responses was then compared to chance. Through years of experiments, neither "senders" nor "receivers" of telepathic messages were ever discovered to be performing beyond chance. Hence the verdict: Telepathy doesn't exist.

 

 

I also found this: http://www.christianlogic.com/forums/topic284.html

 

Scroll down and look at the pseudoscience section.

 

Also another:

http://members.fortunecity.com/templarser/rmind10.html

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada

I don't have enough to prove the existence, but neither do YOU have enough to prove non-existence, it just hasn't been reasearched enough. And who says that we'll be doing all the work? They should be doing some work too.

 

I cannot prove with 100% assurance that anything doesn't exist.

 

Perhaps you should try to prove the existence or the non-existence of God before.

[RevanA4]

Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad

I cannot prove with 100% assurance that anything doesn't exist.

 

Perhaps you should try to prove the existence or the non-existence of God before.

 

well da science has proven that already

[lukeiamyourdad]

Link? Source to back up the claim?

[RevanA4]

Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad

Link? Source to back up the claim?

 

dude scientist prove new stuff everyday why do you need proof of that