Zerosaber Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Do you guys think that the Clone wars and the galactic civial war are the same war? Look at it: the stormtroopers are still technically clone troopers just a different helment. The republic in the clone wars still has the same leader in the galactic civil war Senator/ Emperor Palpatine. The government in the Republic is still the same as the one in the Galactic Civil war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Well, the Clone Wars is with... clones. In the Galactic Civil War, it is the Rebel Alliance vs the Empire. They're really different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 well both are technically still civil wars since it involves the state vs a rebelling entity. But names are names *shrugs*. The clone wars is famous because it's the first time clones were used and the clones were the ones who played a key role in te fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 They are both civil wars, but against two very different rebel groups. The rebel alliance was formed by mostly (if not all) people who were loyal to the Republic during the Clone Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 If they were the same we'd need only one trilogy. And the government DID change by the way. The senate was disbanded after the Emperor rose to power. He wanted to rule alone. Another difference is the fact that both the seperatist and the republic army were controlled by the same man, who was using them to further his own plans. While in the galactic civil war, the opposing side was trying to put an end to said plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Originally posted by Doomie And the government DID change by the way. The senate was disbanded after the Emperor rose to power. He wanted to rule alone. Well, sort of. Pre-fascist Germany and Nazi Germany are both Germany. France went back and forth several times between being democratic and not, yet it was always France. So power in the Republic/Empire did change hands and form, but it was still the same 'state'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin So power in the Republic/Empire did change hands and form, but it was still the same 'state'. He never said anything to the contrary. He just said the government changed. It is now a tyrannical dictartoship, instead of a republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Well then I'm not sure what the relevance is. In WWI, Russia had a communist revolution, and that didn't make the last part of the war a different war. It was still WWI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin Well then I'm not sure what the relevance is. In WWI, Russia had a communist revolution, and that didn't make the last part of the war a different war. It was still WWI. You're the one that brought up world wars. What it is, is first we had the republic, the seperatists came to challenge the republic. The seperatists "lost" and Palpatine gained emergency powers and disbanded the senate, destroying the Republic. He established the Empire, then came the rebels fighting to crush the empire and restore peace to the galaxy. They're different civil wars, but all with common fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 I still don't see how the government changing has any effect on whether or not it is the same war. A changing government can continue a war, and it will be the same war throughout. What makes the Clone Wars and Galactic Civil War different wars, is the fact that the Republic/Empire is against a different enemy, the different reasons for the war, the time between them (I'm just assuming here, that there was a clear end to the Clone Wars before the formation of the Alliance), etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Well, the government changing was caused by the first war, and caused the second one. Also, the thread starter stated the government hadn't changed, and I felt the need to point it out. Like people yelling 'Wookiee' whenever someone writes down 'wookie'. And yes, I am one of those people too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 Originally posted by Zerosaber Do you guys think that the Clone wars and the galactic civial war are the same war? Look at it: the stormtroopers are still technically clone troopers just a different helment. The republic in the clone wars still has the same leader in the galactic civil war Senator/ Emperor Palpatine. The government in the Republic is still the same as the one in the Galactic Civil war. obviously, someone correct me if i m wrong, but i was under the impression that many stormtroopers were not, in fact, clones. i know for a fact that stormtroopers after the battle of endor were non-cloned humans, but i was nearly positive that even during the time of the emperor there were non-cloned stormies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 Originally posted by Lieutenant_kettch obviously, someone correct me if i m wrong, but i was under the impression that many stormtroopers were not, in fact, clones. i know for a fact that stormtroopers after the battle of endor were non-cloned humans, but i was nearly positive that even during the time of the emperor there were non-cloned stormies Refer to this thread: http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 Originally posted by TK-8252 Refer to this thread: http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147006 many thanks, that was very helpful, and confirmed my beliefs. ------- back on topic, no, the two wars are not the same war, i know there have been several instances where a nation has been attacked, taken over, and a new government is created, and nearly immediately, a rebellion rises up against this new government. i will be posting an edit soon when i find the concrete examples i'm looking for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 Originally posted by Lieutenant_kettch and confirmed my beliefs. Actually it disproved your beliefs, since you thought that Stormtroopers weren't clones when they are, and only their officers are non-clone recruits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 Originally posted by TK-8252 Actually it disproved your beliefs, since you thought that Stormtroopers weren't clones when they are, and only their officers are non-clone recruits. actually, it confirmed them, it mentions both clones and recruits, and i knew they started out as clones and then some were recruits, and during EU times they were mainly recruits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 It seems like you meant the majority were not clones. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 sorry if you guys misinterpreted what i said, i had a hard time putting my thoughts into words, but what im trying to say is that they started out as clones, then many were clones with specialty recruits, then later became a majority of recruits as they ran out of clones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 Originally posted by Lieutenant_kettch sorry if you guys misinterpreted what i said, i had a hard time putting my thoughts into words, but what im trying to say is that they started out as clones, then many were clones with specialty recruits, then later became a majority of recruits as they ran out of clones Ah, I see. I'm no expert on EU stuff, so I don't know about the Imperial Remnant, but didn't Admiral Thrawn use some faster method of cloning? What was the deal with that? *Nudges EU'ers* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 Remind me how EU is useable in a movie canon debate? I must have missed a memo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 Originally posted by InsaneSith Remind me how EU is useable in a movie canon debate? I must have missed a memo. my comment about the stormies had nothing to do with most of the debate, i was just commenting on someones mention of stormies and their cloneliness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 Originally posted by Zerosaber Do you guys think that the Clone wars and the galactic civial war are the same war? Look at it: the stormtroopers are still technically clone troopers just a different helment. The republic in the clone wars still has the same leader in the galactic civil war Senator/ Emperor Palpatine. The government in the Republic is still the same as the one in the Galactic Civil war. Yeah I wondered this myself when AOTC came out and I noticed the "Galactic Republic" symbol was so similar to the Empire's symbol. (The AOTC ICS book calls it alternately "symbol of Galactic Unity" and "Bendu Symbol" iirc). A continuous war that simply changes propaganda would be a neat idea. I don't know if Lucas will use it or not (the constant conflict will make for some good games/books for $$$ later). The EU IS part of canon, albeit lower (uh oh.... he's gonna do it! he's gonna do the speech and use the card!!!! aarrggggh no just kidding). It's just that you can't use it to easily predict what Lucas will do in the last movie. After that you'll see retcons aplenty, it'll get straightened out. The "they're the same war" thing is pure speculation, but I for one love the idea. Sure, Obi-Wan talks about it as if it happened a long time ago, but that could merely be the sea change before it started being called something else (see modern use of "war on terror" also it was Clone War(s) plural). And they're still using clones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 It could be the same war. Basically, what happened was that the seperatists took over the Republic, and those loyal to the old Republic rebelled against them. So then it would still be the same war. Hadn't thought of it that way before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted April 11, 2005 Share Posted April 11, 2005 Before the prequels were made, I think most of us assumed that the Empire "took over..." ie: that Senator Palpatine was elected chancellor and then seized power in a Coupe. He got rid of the Senate, killed the Jedi, etc. However, the Prequels make it out to be that the Republic slowly and legally (well mostly) transitions into the Empire over a period of many years. I don't know if the Seperatists will take over (doubt it) but as for them becoming the Rebellion that might be. That's what I was thinking of. Again, all along we've assumed that the Rebellion was either the old government in exile (after Palpatine's coupe) or it was defectors from the Empire trying to bring back the old ways. It may be in fact that it sprang up from the Seperatists (surely there were some people among them that weren't just in it for greed or because they were evil... they really did believe the Republic was corrupt and maybe saw Palpatine as a threat to freedom). The key thing here is that in the Prequels, the leadership of BOTH factions are evil Sith Lords (Palpatine/Sideous and Dooku/Tyrannus). But that doesn't mean the people (misguidedly) following them are also evil. They're just pawns in the game. But like in Chess, some of those Pawns might become Queens one day, and change things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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