MyKell Posted April 12, 2005 Share Posted April 12, 2005 I guess I miss the point of this new Alt-Dimension. If I understand correctly, it is a place to put players who do not want to follow your server rules. That way they can FFA with other "rule breakers". Not sure how this is a benefit. If I run a servers with limited slots, eat seem like if you could eat up valuble player slots for people you don't want on your server. You can also force the into alt-dimension, but, anyone who wants to be annoying can just reconnect and move back to primary to continue to break rules. The alternative become to kick and ban so you really have gained nothing but a headace. New players should not start out in alt-Dimension. It forces all players to take the extra step to move. In addition, it confusses players who are not familar with JA+. Admins now have to waste more time explaining to new players how to switch dimensions and use the console. I think in order to discourge "rule breakers", you have to isolate them from the rest of the game. Put them in a penitly box, alt-dim them to a place they can not fight anything, or encourge then to leave by freezing them in a mode where as they can do not anything but get bored and leave. I am not saying I have the answers and I do not claim to know a think about programming in C++. I just don't think alt-dimension solved anything. MyKell No Limits Gaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverhoodian Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Maybe it's because I'm a competitive gamer, but the only rules I know of in MP are: 1. Use any means necessary to kill your opponents (that includes guns and Force powers, btw). 2. Have fun. Actually, it sounds like a great idea. The hatred and animosity between "honorz" gamers and competitive gamers has never been able to be peacefully resolved. It sounds like with this new system, those who want to play by the rules of the admin mods could go in and do their thing, while more competitive gamers could stay in the "Alt-Dimension" and happily frag away, like the game's supposed to be played. True, player slots would get filled rather quickly, but it's better than the alternative: a bloody cyber holy war over how the game's played. After all, JA lost a sizeable portion of its gaming community as a result of this conflict of interests. "Rule breakers" gotta have fun too, you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 However, Neverhood, it's not set up that way. When you join the game, as I understand, you start out in the "no-laming" zone, so new players (the majority of "lamers") will go about playing the game as intended in the "no-laming" zone and get abused for "laming." JA+ supporters will say "well these players should go to the laming zone so they don't get abused." Too bad they've forgot one huge problem with that argument: considering that most new players don't know how to change their name from Padawan or how to chat, let alone pull down the console, you can't expect them to know how to change dimensions, especially since they don't even know what "JA+" is. And most h0n0rz crowds aren't exactly "helpful" when it comes to helping out newbies. It sounds like how the alt-dimension system works now, it's just yet another useless attempt at anti-abuse. If Slider had implimented it the way Amidala suggested, it would actually work. But of course... this didn't happen. Typical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverhoodian Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Ooh, I see the problem now. Thanks for the heads up, TK. That's too bad, as it could've been a great way for both types of gamers to enjoy playing on the same server. A shame it wasn't implemented properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 TK-8252, too bad you are again speaking about things you don't know, or you didn't experience or you didn't take time to read .... by default player are put in the alt dim when they join... then they have the choice to play in the teaching , dueling, chatting or clan, or rpg zone or stay in the real ffa dimension... now for those who say it consume player slots, this is wrong because firstable if some player are not wanted on the server , you can ban or kick them, now if they are wanted on the server, they will not reconnect to be auto unforced to stay in alt dim because they have fun in this alt dim.... now if they don't have their fun in this alt dim, it means that they are real jerk who only want to waste the gameplay and the fun on the server.... so in this case, ban them... it seems now that a new race of player is appearing signicantly : the class of people who are only joining server in order to waste other player's fun and gameplay... they come to real dimention only to attacks admins or people who are teaching their padawan the attacks ... admins put them in altdim thinking they are real ffa players.... then they don(t have their fun because they are loosing against reall ffa player because they only know how to kill people when they are saber down and teaching their padawans..... So they reconnect to the server to be unforce to stay in alt dim and they continue to waste the fun of people and saying insults of type (admin noob, admin abuser..etc....) then they are banned and they come on the forums to complain about admin abuse pretending they are real competetive gamer and they were banned trying to play the way ""it was meant to be""....while they are just jerk who only want to waste other people gameplay and fun..... the new alt dim system will separate those jerks from the real ffa player community... the real ffa player community will be able to havr its fun without wasting other kind of player's fun for the jerk i can't do nothing for you,,, sorry the only think i made for the jerks is /ignore /amban /amkick /amsilence anti player fake system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 I have to say I agree with slider. If a server uses JA+ 2.3 properly (enables the alternate dimension and makes it the first dimension that players enter) there is really no reason for someone who is forced to the alternate dimension for breaking the server's rules to disconnect, reconnect, enter the server in the alternate dimension, then switch to the primary dimension and go back to breaking the rules except if they are, as slider says, a "jerk". I don't think anyone should disagree that that "jerk" should be kicked or banned. Not humiliated or abused, just kicked or banned, range banned if necessary. It's one thing for a new player who doesn't even know what "laming" is to innocently "lame" people, it's totally different for someone who knows what the rules are yet intentionally disregards them. The alternate dimension gives real FFA players a place to play. There is no need for them to leave the alternate dimension if they don't like or agree with "no laming" rules. The two types of players can co-exist on the same server if they understand how it is set up. And the theoretical complaint that the server will be filled with "real FFA players" when the server is mainly a "no laming" server is ridiculous. There simply aren't enough "real FFA players" left playing this game to take up any significant number of slots. Look at the All Seeing Eye: Jedi Academy's problem is too many server slots and not enough players, not the opposite. At any given time the majority of Jedi Academy servers have no humans playing on them. It could only be a problem if someone had a small server (<12 slots), and even then it's only theoretical. If people want to reserve spots, use sv_privateclients. Really, I have to say I admire slider not only for coming up with such a good idea as the alternate dimension and coding it, but even more so for saying no to all of the power-hungry admins who are addicted to amslay, ampunish, amtele-into-lava, and amempower, and who are terrified and angry at losing even a little bit of their power and unfair advantages. You should see all of the whining and complaining on his forum. They keep pointing out that a slim majority (52%) of the voters (amslay\ampunish addicts and their clan members) in a poll want to keep the old commands. But when slider ran an earlier poll about removing amslay and ampunish and a much larger majority were in favor of removing those commands, the ampunish addicts conveniently ignored it. There is only one problem with JA+ 2.3: some clans are staying with 2.2 or 2.3beta1 (that still have the old commands) because they are addicted to amslay, ampunish, amtele-into-lava, and uber-amempower. Unfortunately, those clans run some of the busiest FFA servers, so new players are likely to be attracted to them and fall under the boot of those power-hungry "admins" who secretly enjoy when a "lamer" shows up on their server (some poor kid named Padawan who asks "how do I put color in my name?" and "how do I earn Force points?") so they can "do their job" and show off their powers while "teaching that lamer a lesson". I wish I could debate those "admins" on slider's forum, but then I would reveal myself and get banned for "flaming", so all I can say is stick to your guns slider, you're doing the right thing. Virtually half the JA+ admins in your own forum support the new admin system, and if ordinary players were to vote 99% of them would support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Amidala why do you think i will ban you? i only ban people who are not respecting the rules on the JA+ forum the rules are simple : no flaming respect of other people if you respect those things there is not reason to be banned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Originally posted by Slider744 Amidala why do you think i will ban you? Because I was IP banned before when I didn't break either one of those rules. Fortunately, I used a different account and posted from a public computer so the ban doesn't keep me from lurking on your forums. It's OK slider, I still respect you for standing up to all those power-hungry "admins" who want to be junior Emperor Palpatines. I hope you noticed the people who posted on your forum that they "love to be admins". They go to servers not to play and become better players, but to strut around like gods among the lowly players. They support the "no laming" rules because it justifies their existence and "jobs" as admins. Go to JA+ FFA server and watch those "admins". They rarely play. They strut around telling people what to do, or stand around watching players like prison guards. If success of JA+ 2.3 and the alternate dimension reduces the need for admins to "keep order" and "enforce law", then they might actually have to start playing the game like everyone else (and without uber-amempower too). That thought terrifies and angers them. That's why they want the old commands back, so they can disable the alternate dimension and run things like "gods" as they always have. That's why they aren't upgrading, not so they can continue to "ampunish bots for training" Hopefully, players will start to realize that JA+ 2.2 server = abuse from power-addicted admins while JA+ 2.3 server = fun and fairness for everyone, not just admins. Then people will start preferring 2.3 servers, and the 2.2 servers will be haunted only by amslaying, ampunishing, amtele-into-lava, uber-amepowered "admins" who have nothing to do but boss each other around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 i think this is more than that amidala admins really want to prevent real ffa player to coming in and prevent them to destroying their fun or disturbing them when they are teaching their padawans in their academy clan or making rpg things.... the new alt dim reall make it possible to be in a teaching zone with your master teaching you while other player are making a real ffa around you i don't think admin abuser represent a majority amidala, Often, admins just want to maintain their own fun and use admin cmd to prevent other player to waste this fun.... a lot of servers have updated to the final 2.3.... it really show that admin abuser are not the majority you were talking about i think what is seen as a abusing use of JA+ for a real ffa player is most of the time just a way for the admin to prevent those real ffa player to disturb their rpg or teaching clan zone.... Admins that like abusing even on players who are doing nothing wrong are a minority.... because if it wasn't the case, server would not have updated to 2.3.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 I hope more JA+ servers upgrade to 2.3, but I am looking right now at the busiest JA+ FFA servers with the All Seeing Eye. The majority of the busiest servers are running versions with ampunish\amslay\amtele-into-lava\uber-amempower: 1. €€€€€JASA, 24/32 players/slots, version 2.3beta1 2. €€€€€JoH, 21/32, version 2.3beta1 3. -=RpG WoRLd =-, 16/26, version 2.3 (with altdim DISABLED) 4. [LoTF] SITH Server, 15/20, version 2.1 5. €€€€€€€€€, 14/20, version 2.3beta2 6. ThE<<HQ>>Angel, 14/16, version 2.3beta1 7. Fun Server, 12/12, version 2.3beta1 8. €€€€€€€€€|DKS| Main FFA, 12/30, version 2.3beta1 9. <FoTF>, 12/14, version 2.3beta1 10. DeutcherPublicServer Alpha 11/11, version 2.3beta1 The only one of the top ten busiest (at the moment, the list changes, obviously) JA+ FFA servers using 2.3final has disabled the alternate dimension. Almost all of the rest, and many other JA+ servers, are staying with the last version that still has ampunish\amslay\amtele-into-lava\uber-amempower. There are a lot of people addicted to being god-like admins. After becoming so used to being all-powerful bullies on their servers, the admins on the busiest JA+ FFA servers are refusing to give up even a few of their powers. I hope that will change. Unfortunately, new players tend to go to the busiest FFA servers (and\or the ones with the most €€€€ in their names), where they are still likely to be "welcomed" with ampunish, amslay, and amtele-into-lava. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 €€€€€€€€€, 14/20, version 2.3beta2 is without ampunish and amslay moreover even in 2.3 final with alt dim disabledn there is not ampunish and amslay.... moreover if a server disable alt dim, it measn they do not want real ffa on the server, so it means reall ffa player have to go in another server i therefore don't understand why reall player will want to stay on this server.... so in this server there should be only rpg, hounour players and therefore if you follow those rules i don't think you will be bothered by admins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 I know, but my point is out of the top 10 busiest JA+ FFA servers, one is using 2.3beta2 without ampunish and amslay (I didn't check if they have disabled the alternate dimension), one is using 2.3 final but has disabled the alternate dimension, and the other eight are using 2.3beta1 with no alternate dimension feature but with amslay, ampunish, amtele-into-lava, and uber-amempower. So out of the top 10 busiest JA+ FFA servers, 80% still have ampunish\amslay\amtele-into-lava\uber-amempower, and at most 10% or maybe 0% are using the alternate dimension. My point is that after a year-and-a-half of amslaying, ampunishing, amtele-into-lava, and uber-amempower, a lot of admins are addicted to that and don't want to give it up. The people who are complaining the most on your forum are the power-addicted admins, not the players. The players (I think) and the "good" admins like the changes. I think all you can do is ask file sites to disable downloading the older versions, and keep adding more good features to future versions so people will find it harder to be satisfied with the older versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 My apologies, slider; I had misunderstood what someone else wrote a while back about alt-dimension. I see how it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 i asked lucasfiles and jK3files to update and delete old version but they didn"'t awnser to me and diddn't update and didn't delelte old version they are like dead website now the staff is dead on those website moreover you should wait 1 month or more until those website will update the files i submited and ithink there wil be more JA+2.3 wait before saying stats after 2 days of release but even after several days there is like 70 JA+2.3 server Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Slider heres an idea. If you want to make a contribution to the community, one that will really matter, fix the net code. All this other stuff it pointless. Really. It would show that you are an excellant modder, and not hurt the community, only better it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinny Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 What is the net code? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 lukeskywalker1, i don't search to proove i am an excellent coder...or i am contributing for the commnity... i know what i am, and i know whether i contributed to better the game .... you can think all the ideas you want about me, it will not change what i think about myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasa-chosen Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 We have no need for updating the mod to 2.3. We already have amslay ampunish amslap amtele disabled. The only admin command I give to my admins is kick for instructor and kick and ban for knight. Everything else is disabled. Infact we have had them disabled for 6 months. I havent upgraded to 2.3 because I dont like the alt-Dimensions. Our server has very low admin abuse. We have a system that works on our server and always has. Bar is a dualing zone. And the main area is the FFA pit where laming doesnt apply. Infact we have alot of people that play FFA on our server. I have no need to upgrade to the new mod cause I would disable most of it. Why are you so concerned with what we do with our server? If people dont like it then they will not play on it. But as it is now people enjoying playing the way we have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 if you don't like alt dim you can disable it and take advantage of all new things in 2.3 and bug correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 I highly recommend that you update the server to 2.3 You can then disable everything you do not like, including alt dim. Why update? 2.3 fixes a lot of exploits and possible hacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Originally posted by jasa-chosen We have no need for updating the mod to 2.3. We already have amslay ampunish amslap amtele disabled. The only admin command I give to my admins is kick for instructor and kick and ban for knight. Everything else is disabled. Infact we have had them disabled for 6 months. That's great! You deserve to be successful. I hope you will serve as an example to other server operators. However, I think a lot of servers staying with 2.3beta1 or 2.2 are doing so because they are addicted to ampunish, amslay, and amtele-into-lava. In fact, several of them posted on the JA+ forum they were not going to update because they "need" those commands. Your server's popularity proves how wrong they are. You can run a busy server without those commands, and keep it popular. In fact, less abusive commands = more popular server. What a concept! Originally posted by jasa-chosen Our server has very low admin abuse. Thanks for at least being honest that there is some ("very low") admin abuse. According to a lot of posters at the JA+ forum, there is never, never, EVER any admin abuse on their servers In fact, some say they have never, never, EVER even seen any admin abuse, much less been guilty of it. I guess all the abuse must be going on at one or two "bad" servers somewhere Or more likely, they are probably like the "admin" who posted on the JA+ forum that he isn't an admin abuser, then went on to describe how he spams amslap, amslay, and ampunish, before finally amsleeping the "lamer" and turning him into a "kickball" as he described it, slapping and kicking him all over the map while the poor "lamer" is helpless to resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Originally posted by Tinny What is the net code? Its the part of the code that makes the game run online... it sends and recieves data, I guess. All I know is, I heard the netcode was crappy and therefore the game lags a lot more than it should. By make enhancements to the net code someone could decrease the lag on all servers (that run the mod)... possibly. IDK, might not even work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyKell Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 I have heard that some of the functions (emots, cmds, etc) are already coded in the release version of JKA. Modders only have to find them, remove cheat protection and/or create a command to run the function. Raven and Lucasarts left them out because of lag issues. Is there any truth to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 MyKell it is not true tha emote cmds are not coded only the animations are coded ... and if raven would have coded the emote cmd they wouldn't have removed them cause of lag issue it does not lag more than the engageDuel cmd lukeskywalker1, by net code you mean client/server protocol, and it is not changable because raven did not release the SDK of the client server code engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyKell Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 Thank you Slider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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