Dissapointments (spoiler)

[90SK]

What about Atton's special ability to sense danger? [The Harbinger]

 

That is not a huge plot hole. It's just something mentioned that is relevant to the current scene.

or finding the HK-50's?The end between the Remote and G0-T0? What happens to your party at the end?

 

The former two could probably be considered fair sized plot holes, yes. They aren't given any explanation. But remember, you can easily draw your own conclusions. It's not like if it's not explained in the game, nothing came of it at all. I mean, in one of the restored endings for the game, Atton and the Exile walk away from the Trayus Core, and the game ends with Atton saying "where are we going again?" There is not further explanation as to where they are headed or what may happen after the game ends. So is that a plot hole?

 

Where do the Sith Soldiers on Peragus come from?

 

They came with Sion. Of course, you could argue that "How did they get aboard the harbinger? Only the assassins had cloaks". But in all honesty, I don't think the devs care. It's such an insignificant point that only someone who wants to ruin the game's credibility would target it.

 

 

Why are only the Jedi masters seen in the fame still, when they are the best hidden, and there are supposedly other knights still around?

 

I don't understand. The Exile only wanted to find the masters who had been at his trial.

 

Where is M4-78?

 

When is M4-78 ever mentioned in the game? Sleheyron is more a plot hole in K1 than M4-78 is in K2.

 

Why does Atris keep reappearing for no apparent reason?

 

Huh? She has several cutscenes involving news regarding the wareabouts of the Handmaiden

 

Why are you wandering around planets, seemingly aimlessly (depending on dialogue choices you make with Atris)?

 

So you missed the entire point of the game? What, did you skip all the dialogue or something? The Exile seeks the only Jedi masters he knows where to find, in an effort to (A. Kill them, B. inform them of the Sith threat and unite the). But finding one person on an entire planet is difficult. Some general interaction has to occur.

 

In K1, Canderous said he no longer believed in the whole mercenary/thug/planet-burner thing. Why in K2 has he decided to take it up again?

 

That's his issue. And, strictly speaking, it's a variable in K1, so it doesn't matter.

 

 

What happened to the Rakata?

 

Doesn't matter, not important.

 

You could well kill Bastila in K1, how come she reappears in K2?

 

That's a variable. She only appears if you didn't kill her.

 

What is the point of Force Sight?

 

Who cares? It's just another force power.

 

How come these "echoes" in the Force are only just being felt?

 

Because the Exlie has returned to known space. The echos of Malachor remain within him/her. That, and Nihilus is causing all sorts of rocus, what with drainking Katarr.

 

 

some of the NPCs had zilch dialogue (Atton, Mandalore)

 

Yeah, with Atton it was more case sensitive stuff; comments he might make on your surroundings. It was more on Peragus, Telos, and NS. But I agree, there was a lack of stuff. I mean, with Bao-Dur you can actually run out of dialogue.

 

 

I'm criticising it, and I don't like it. Of course I'm gonna focus solely on the bad!

 

Why do you want to do that? Why openly criticize when all that's going to do is open a heated and drawn out debate on the subject?

 

The majority is not always right.

 

Same goes for the minority.

 

TSL is attempting to be an intellectually challenging story - and that, IMHO, is where it ultimately fails.

 

I disagree. But we're talking opinions here. There is no right answer.

 

Have you seen how much they are restoring? It's debatable. In any case, I dont *hate* the game. I don't like it, because of the reasons I mentioned above

 

Understand my confusion. I assumed you hated it when you bashed every aspect of the game in it's utter totallity. Not much left to like there.

 

And yes, I've seen what they're restoring. I stick by what I said. It'll only draw out what's already there.

 

^^^Herculean? or am I missing something?

 

Well, yeah. I mean, look at what they're doing. I'd say that qualifies as "herculean".

 

 

number 2 just leaves many questions unaswered

 

So did ESB.

[Hallucination]

Darth InSidious

In K1, Canderous said he no longer believed in the whole mercenary/thug/planet-burner thing. Why in K2 has he decided to take it up again?

He does that several times. One time he complains about being tired of merc stuff and wants glory, which may come from uniting the clans and becoming the Mandalore. Another time he thinks getting sentimental, but thats not gonna stop a Mandaloring is it?

+10 cool points to Captain Skye because he did an excellent job of replying to Darth InSidious.

[The Doctor]

Please, Doctor. People do, in fact, have opinions differing from your own.

I swear, people here must not be able to see smileys. Didn't I add a to the end of my above post? I realize people have different opinions, I was just commenting about how much I disagree with those of certain other people.

[90SK]

Ach, I didn't understand the context. Sorry!

[Darth InSidious]

They came with Sion. Of course, you could argue that "How did they get aboard the harbinger? Only the assassins had cloaks". But in all honesty, I don't think the devs care. It's such an insignificant point that only someone who wants to ruin the game's credibility would target it.

Actually, they were meant to arrive with Nihilus, and then there was gonna be a cutscene with him and Sion, and he spams Sion with FPs . I know that thanks to the RP, but when I first played through I was thinking "WTF?!"

 

 

 

I don't understand. The Exile only wanted to find the masters who had been at his trial.

 

Yeah, but there are supposed to be other Jedi here and there, and since none know where each other are...You'd think there might be others around....

 

 

When is M4-78 ever mentioned in the game? Sleheyron is more a plot hole in K1 than M4-78 is in K2.

Check out the plasteel cylinder on G0T0's Yacht's bridge .

Sleheyron mentions were only put in after the planet was cut, and the game hangs together well enough without it. TSL feels...incomplete still somehow, IMHO.

 

 

Huh? She has several cutscenes involving news regarding the wareabouts of the Handmaiden

Yes, but supposing you play as a female character, what then? She just re-appears for reasons unknown? Why do you keep returning to someone who clearly hates you?

 

 

So you missed the entire point of the game? What, did you skip all the dialogue or something? The Exile seeks the only Jedi masters he knows where to find, in an effort to (A. Kill them, B. inform them of the Sith threat and unite the). But finding one person on an entire planet is difficult. Some general interaction has to occur.

Not necessarily. It depends on what you say to Atris. Anyway, wouldn't it be more pleasurable to watch the JEdi cower and hide than to just kill them outright?

 

 

That's his issue. And, strictly speaking, it's a variable in K1, so it doesn't matter.

Not if you complete his sidequest, it isn't.

 

 

 

That's a variable. She only appears if you didn't kill her.

I don't remember any dialogue determining that...

 

 

Who cares? It's just another force power.

Well, personally, I'd rather have some more Sabre Forms

 

 

Because the Exlie has returned to known space. The echos of Malachor remain within him/her. That, and Nihilus is causing all sorts of rocus, what with drainking Katarr.

Maybe, but what about the other echoes? Like the Xoxin plains of Eres III? Or Dxun? Korriban? Why were these wounds not felt before? Anyway, distance doesn't seem to affect the Force, particularly something big. The Masters can feel Katarr, after all.

 

 

 

I mean, with Bao-Dur you can actually run out of dialogue.

That was one I really found annoying. Thank Yuka Laka for the USM

 

 

 

Why do you want to do that? Why openly criticize when all that's going to do is open a heated and drawn out debate on the subject?

In an attempt to show my opinion, and back it up with reasons?

 

 

Same goes for the minority.

True.

 

I disagree. But we're talking opinions here. There is no right answer.

Also true.

 

Understand my confusion. I assumed you hated it when you bashed every aspect of the game in it's utter totallity. Not much left to like there.

Wrong- I didn't bash the music, or the graphics

And yes, I've seen what they're restoring. I stick by what I said. It'll only draw out what's already there.

Well, let's just agree to disagree there, huh

 

Well, yeah. I mean, look at what they're doing. I'd say that qualifies as "herculean".

Couldn't agree more

[Lady Vader]

Playing KotOR was a memorable gaming experience; great storyline, shocking revelation (unless some idiot on a forum spoils it for you...), nicely done romance plots,etc., etc. ...and then I picked up TSL...

 

True, TSL had an improved interface, new items, more and better Force powers, and many other improved features.

The dual weapon switching mode was pretty neat, and the music had more of a Star Wars feel to it (not that I didn't like K1's music or anything).

The ability to breakdown/create items with your workbench was a great idea as well.

I liked the influence system, and it was great to be able to turn your party members into Jedi.

TSL had some interesting quests and planets; loved Nar Shaddaa, Dxun, and Onderon. Peragus was alright too for an introductory level, but it was certainly not better than Taris. Not by a long shot.

 

That being said, here are the real disappointments:

Random loot generator; there were certain items/robes I liked using over and over again but couldn't always find them again until almost the very end of the game. While the randomness adds some variety to the game, I found it to be more of a curse than a blessing.

 

Korriban was a waste of time. It is my favorite planet and I loved it in K1, however, in TSL all you get is one lowly tomb and whatever passes for a quest inside the academy...

I didn't care much for Dantooine and Telos either.

 

Bao-Dur doesn't say much, does he? What a shame since he could have been a great character if he were better developed, and the same goes for Darth Nihilus. And whatever happened to decent romance plots like those in K1? Oh yeah, I forgot - there weren't any, and the small bit that was supposed to be was cut. Don't even get me started on GO-TO...

 

Once you reach that certain point in the game (confronting the Jedi Council on Dantooine...or not), the game just breaks down completely - messed up dialogue that no longer makes any sense at all, especially when playing the darkside.

 

After having to fight your way through Malachor all alone and you finally reach the final villain, the endings are almost identical and you don't even get to see any of your companions again.

I would use the word "LAME" to descibe this, but that would be an understatement.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I still think that TSL is an enjoyable game and have played it several times already, but it never captured my attention like K1 had. I don't blame Obsidian, I blame LucasArts for rushing and thereby ruining what could have been an excellent game. Perhaps LA will consider taking their time with KotOR 3 (if there is to be one) and deliver a better game, hmm? Just my two cents.

[90SK]

Actually, they were meant to arrive with Nihilus, and then there was gonna be a cutscene with him and Sion, and he spams Sion with FPs . I know that thanks to the RP, but when I first played through I was thinking "WTF?!"

 

I haden't heard that. Are you sure it's right? (Don't get me wrong, that actually makes more sense than what I've been hearing about that scene. Does the restoration team know? Because I don't think they're implementing that scene, yet it sounds like it would fit in fine there. You'd just need to splice a cutscene of the Harbinger heading towards the Ravager, and that might be a bit tricky.)

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, but there are supposed to be other Jedi here and there, and since none know where each other are...You'd think there might be others around....

 

True, though I don't think they would want to reveal themselves to anyone if they were nearby. What with the whole "kill or capture all jedi" thing.

 

 

 

Check out the plasteel cylinder on G0T0's Yacht's bridge .

 

Oh, come on. xP That hardly counts. But you're right: the absence is there, even if one doesn't know about the planet. That's why Korriban is so empty.

 

 

 

Yes, but supposing you play as a female character, what then? She just re-appears for reasons unknown? Why do you keep returning to someone who clearly hates you?

 

I didn't think of that. I've never played female (too sentimental ), so I guess it would play out differently.

 

Eh, I think Atris still wants to keep an eye on the Exile, just for sake of baiting the Sith, though she indeed has les of a role without Handmaiden being involved.

 

Not necessarily. It depends on what you say to Atris. Anyway, wouldn't it be more pleasurable to watch the Jedi cower and hide than to just kill them outright?

 

I think that regardless of what you say to Atris, the main quest still remains the same (though it's more in implication than anything. I mean, why else would you have a map of locations to the Jedi Masters?). Without decent intro, I can see where you would get confused, though. That's really TSL's biggest flaw: too many major plot points are optional. It's a great game, but only if you can flesh it out.

 

Not if you complete his sidequest, it isn't.

 

But it's still a variable. You don't have to complete it (even though it's a good idea too).

 

 

I don't remember any dialogue determining that...

 

Remember Atton's Peragus dialogue, where you guys talk about Revan? Now, strictly speaking, Bastila could have died under varied circumstances, so it's possible to see her when she's supposedly dead; the game just interprets that she lives either way, I think. Or not; I'm not sure how it works.

 

Well, personally, I'd rather have some more Sabre Forms

 

Whatever floats your boat.

 

 

 

Maybe, but what about the other echoes? Like the Xoxin plains of Eres III? Or Dxun? Korriban? Why were these wounds not felt before? Anyway, distance doesn't seem to affect the Force, particularly something big. The Masters can feel Katarr, after all.

 

I think it's more of a buildup thing. All the echoes have been building up, and imprinting themselves in the Exile in the process. Now that the Exile has returned, he/she brings all the echoes of the Mandalorian wars with him/her. Or something along those lines.

 

 

That was one I really found annoying. Thank Yuka Laka for the USM

 

You can say that again.

 

 

In an attempt to show my opinion, and back it up with reasons?

 

True, but do you have to bash it? Why not just say "of course, this is all my opinion. I respect KotOR II for what it is, but I personally didn't care for it; ergo the reasons above"?

 

 

Wrong- I didn't bash the music, or the graphics

 

Ach, you're right. I'll give you credit for not bashing the music or graphics.

 

Well, let's just agree to disagree there, huh

 

That's the spirit! Though, I will submit that it will enhance the game a great deal, like you said. I mean, Malachor will be fixed, and NS is going to be awesome with the GenoHarradan, and the M4-78 team is going to take Korriban to the top again.

[The Doctor]

the music [from TSL] had more of a Star Wars feel to it

I disagree. I think the KotOR music was much more similar to the music from Star Wars than TSL. It used more of the running melodies from the movies in it than TSL did.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Sleheyron mentions were only put in after the planet was cut, and the game hangs together well enough without it. TSL feels...incomplete still somehow, IMHO.

 

Very bold statement. Would it be more complete? Maybe, maybe not. It could still feel totally incomplete with M4-78 in.

The "incompleteness" feeling of TSL has nothing to do with the inclusion or exclusion of a single planet. It's almost random bashing. It feels incomplete because there's many plotholes, adding a planet in won't necessarily fill all the plot holes. It might explain some things, but not everything.

 

I disagree. I think the KotOR music was much more similar to the music from Star Wars than TSL. It used more of the running melodies from the movies in it than TSL did.

 

Whether it used running melodies or not shouldn't be a point of comparison. TSL had a much darker music. Less Star Wars? No.

TSL is to K1 what ESB is to ANH.

[The Doctor]

^ Sorry, but I think you're crazy. Unless you like ANH more than ESB, in which case.... I still think you're crazy:xp:

[lukeiamyourdad]

^ Sorry, but I think you're crazy. Unless you like ANH more than ESB, in which case.... I still think you're crazy:xp:

 

What does it have to do with anything? The music in ESB is darker then in ANH, just as TSL's music being darker then the one in K1.

[The Doctor]

O, I thought you were saying that TSL was better than KotOR, just like A New Hope was better than Empire strikes Back. <Then you would be crazy.

Just because the music in TSL is "darker" than that of KotOR doesn't make it more Star Wars-ish. Just the opposite, IMO. Most of the (good) Star Wars music was not "dark" (ie The Force theme as well as the main theme).

[Axe Windu]

Ok so far this seems like a bunch of people vs Captain Skye. Lemmi just recap....

 

First off I agree with more or less what everyone said. Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic was an amazing game. The plot twist was phenominal. You had Bastilla the quintisential Jedi with a cool double yellow image but was still classically corrupted to the Dark Side. Jolee Bindu the old cook Rebel and introducing the idea of Grey Jedi. Carth Onasi the Republic Soldier who gets annoying but is still an awesome character. Juhani... Big Z... Mission ok there stupid yeah yeah... Canderous Ordo the true Mandalorian. HK 47 the most awesome assassin driod ever created by you Revan. T3 M4 a 4000 year old R2D2. Also of course the Ebon Hawk a ship that just screams Falcon. You had a clear focus, you had a clear and cool enemy, you had Jedi training and you were on board the Laviathon and you fought Malak and had a temple and it was amazingly cool. It was awesome. Any complaints anyone could muster about the game were fixed in Knights of the Old Republic II the Sith Lords. What could you possibly complain about. There was a level cap, not enough force powers and feats, and you didnt start as a Jedi class and there werent enough character customization through prestige classes. Also you could not influence your parties alignment in any way. Also I dont care how cool it was Taris was WAYYY too long. What else could you think was bad about this game? So naturally when they fixed all these things TSL should have been 2ce as good right? Wrong. Totally totally wrong. Listen everyone is entitled to there opinion but anyone who thinks TSL was a better game them KOTOR is wrong. Sorry there is no way. I mean KOTOR got over 40 game of the year awards including xbox game of the year and TSL plane didnt. You can blame it on the fact that its a sequal and make excuses and whatever but TSL was not as good. They added the new stuff but they totally took away from the old.

 

First I will admit that the characters were more mature. Where KOTORs characters were very basic: classic Jedi, Mandalorian warrior etc. These characters were less black and white and more in depth. But not enough detail was given about them to make it work. First off there were like 3 attempts at a love story that all went nowhere. There are 2 characters I thought were well explained: Atton and Kreia. Now Atton was awesome... here you have Hon Solo if Hon Solo was force sensitive and an ex Jedi assassin. He filled the same role as Carth but was so much cooler. Kreia on the other hand... no. She is not Jolee she is not Bastilla she is just stupid. This is where everyone will call me crazy and say Im missing the point. No I got the point, I fully explored Kreias diologue from Dark and Light side and I even tried to stay Nuetral one game. Screw Kreia. All she wants you to do is be nuetral, one minute she wants you to be really evil one minute she wants you to be really good. Shes too crypitc... its not cool it seriously isnt cool I just want her to shut up. Whats up with her hand and her eyes? Why cant I change her robes? Why is she so dumb? I dont want her as my master. The whole game there is the threat if she dies you die... but that doesnt happen. If your nice to her she hates you if your mean to her she hates you, sometimes if your mean to her she likes you though... I just want her to stop existing. Seriously its like she was the main character. Her roll was bigger then yours. And that is not cool. Especially since shes this old crazy whiny shutta. Ughh sorry I hate Kreia. You guys can dispute my opinion on Kriea she isnt half the reason I was dissapointed with this game. The other characters? I dont think I ever fully understood the relationship between Big Z and Mira. Even in the end when they fought that never was completed. Bao Dur needed to be fleshed out more. Though an Zabrack in your crew that only you have a connection with was very cool. Though he still upset me... one of the things I liked was the ability to corrupt him and make him Darth Maul... seriously thats all I wanted to do. But he cant wear robes... so he doenst look as evil and he cant use lotsa force powers. Also even though I just said I was going for Darth Maul a Guardian doesnt seem like the Force Class for a Teche... And of course the cutscene with his remote was totally pointless because they never fully concluded it. It was a waste of wondering around Malachor for like 15 minutes. HK 47... his explanation on killing Jedi was awesome. The thing I didnt liek HK50s. They were super cool right until 47 says hey I can track them lets find out where there being produced via this tracking thing. Oops you never do that. You never see them again or find them. T3 M4... they shouldve explaned more about him shocking HK and locking the voice lock on the Navicomputer. Handmaiden... shouldve developed the lovelife better same with Visas and Mira. Also she was too spartin even though duh thats her theme. Putting her in white robes with a silver sabor though was frieken super cool. Visas Marr turned to the light side of the force in less time then it takes to finish reading this sentence. She was wayy too all over you. Seriously she wasnt even evil at all. And besides for just being cool what was the point of her force sight? GOTO... can you say plot hole... not only was he not interesting or useful but you have no clue what happens with him. You dont even talk to the actual Goto in person and once agian the end cutscene is never resolved. The coolest thing about GOTO was he looked like the turtore driod in episode 4, thats about it. Canderous no real complaints couldve been a lil elaborated. Yeah thats right I think hes OK. Seriously its not good when I have a major complaint about all but 2 characters. I also just came up with atleast 4 things that were unresolved based on character development alone.

 

Also I dont know where this thing is comming from that this game is more popular. I have many friends who have verying degress of star wars experitse. Some are annoying super nerds who complain that R2D2 doesnt have jet packs he has 0 grav thrusters and that Naboo starfighters cant make it to Corisonth. Some are less. All of them were dissapointed with TSL. I didnt expect them to deliver the twist in KOTOR but I expected them to come close. The ending sucked... the next game better expand upon the sucky ending or something cause the ending sucked. Now dont get me wrong....

 

I liked playing TSL. Ive played it through more times then I did KOTOR. Basically because of the features. The graphics are better... I wanna convert more characters to Jedi... I mean I totally love influence... The new force powers rock, the breakdown is cool, Paragus is still annoying but takes less time then Taris, the prestige classes are cool. It is a generally cool game. But as a follow up it didnt deliver and there were huge things they left out and shouldnt have. Period. You cant make a sequal to the 2003 game of the year and leave out a quarter of the content. I mean the ending is the most important part.

 

Also I totally agree with whoever was up there. There were points int he game where I was like wait wait what is my motivation again? Why am I even doing this. Oh there is a Sith threat I gotta tell the masters... like they dont know? They totally all knew when you told them. So what you gotta unite them... lotta good that did Kreia just killed them all. You wanna find out why you got exciled? Big twist there. That wasnt even like shockign I was just like oohhh sweet. Atleast if you were evil you wanted to kill them all... that was cool. But it just seemd like an easy out. The only thing was the dude on Dantooine who was in the last game. I wanna send him to Nar Shadda and see what happens lol. I forgot to do that. He also bugs me cause he complains too much. Also you shouldve gotten all there equipment not some random stuff. The random items in this game was more of a curse then a blessing. I liked when I killed purple dude and there is a really evil line in there... but I forget it. I havnt played in a while.

 

Seriously to recap in short... atleast a couple of the cooler characters shoudlve been expanded on. Kriea shouldve had less or a better defined role. And all the stuff that was open ended and left out shouldve been fixd. I think there couldve also been a better twist and you shouldve had a more reinforced motivation. Ughh I could go on all day. Ill still play it though time and time again cause its generally a cool game.

 

Ok and stop talking about this fixed content. Sorry I have no clue what your talking about. Show me what your talking about. Explain to me exactly what there putting back int he game. I mean EVERYTHING. Explain it to me or show it to me. Is there gonna be a somewhere I can see it? Can I download a patch from xbox live for those of us who dont play TSL on PC. Gimmi more details. And by more I mean a lot more.

 

And what is up with Nihlis... seriously shoudlve explaned him more too.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Just because the music in TSL is "darker" than that of KotOR doesn't make it more Star Wars-ish. Just the opposite, IMO. Most of the (good) Star Wars music was not "dark" (ie The Force theme as well as the main theme).

 

That's not what I said. I said that it wasn't any less "Star Wars".

Most? I think not. The Imperial March, the Duel of Fates and the Obi vs Vader theme are not light hearted.

[Darth InSidious]

I haden't heard that. Are you sure it's right? (Don't get me wrong, that actually makes more sense than what I've been hearing about that scene. Does the restoration team know? Because I don't think they're implementing that scene, yet it sounds like it would fit in fine there. You'd just need to splice a cutscene of the Harbinger heading towards the Ravager, and that might be a bit tricky.)

I watched the restored version

Sion walks up to Nihilus all cocky, then Nihilus turns around, annoyed, and spams him with FPs

 

True, though I don't think they would want to reveal themselves to anyone if they were nearby. What with the whole "kill or capture all jedi" thing.

Point. Maybe they recognise you?

 

 

 

Oh, come on. xP That hardly counts. But you're right: the absence is there, even if one doesn't know about the planet. That's why Korriban is so empty.

Even with M4-78, I think Korriban will be a bit empty....I was musing about adding in some of the tombs again, by reusing bits of Ludo Kressh's.

 

I didn't think of that. I've never played female (too sentimental ), so I guess it would play out differently.

 

Eh, I think Atris still wants to keep an eye on the Exile, just for sake of baiting the Sith, though she indeed has les of a role without Handmaiden being involved.

True. If there's one thing our Atris loves, it's meddling

 

I think that regardless of what you say to Atris, the main quest still remains the same (though it's more in implication than anything. I mean, why else would you have a map of locations to the Jedi Masters?). Without decent intro, I can see where you would get confused, though. That's really TSL's biggest flaw: too many major plot points are optional. It's a great game, but only if you can flesh it out.

I think you've hit the nail squarely there. That's one of the most irritating points. But if you *don't* do it for Atris, then Kreia gives some mini-speech about "needing their help, regardless", or going to kill them...

 

But it's still a variable. You don't have to complete it (even though it's a good idea too).

I suppose, though I've personally never *not* done it.....

 

Remember Atton's Peragus dialogue, where you guys talk about Revan? Now, strictly speaking, Bastila could have died under varied circumstances, so it's possible to see her when she's supposedly dead; the game just interprets that she lives either way, I think. Or not; I'm not sure how it works.

That's what was confusing me....

 

Whatever floats your boat

Helium. Lots of helium

 

I think it's more of a buildup thing. All the echoes have been building up, and imprinting themselves in the Exile in the process. Now that the Exile has returned, he/she brings all the echoes of the Mandalorian wars with him/her. Or something along those lines.

Interesting...

 

You can say that again.

Thank Yuka Laka for the USM...

 

True, but do you have to bash it? Why not just say "of course, this is all my opinion. I respect KotOR II for what it is, but I personally didn't care for it; ergo the reasons above"?

I really, *really* don't like relativism

 

Oh, and LIAYD, of course it feels empty- the game is missing a certain something......like a vast amount of content! Korriban is effectively a stopgap level, designed so that you would have stopped there, done whatever little there is to do, and zoomed off to M4-78, and then back to Onderon for the rest of the game. Without it, events seem far too rushed, IMHO....

[90SK]

Ok and stop talking about this fixed content. Sorry I have no clue what your talking about. Show me what your talking about. Explain to me exactly what there putting back int he game. I mean EVERYTHING. Explain it to me or show it to me. Is there gonna be a somewhere I can see it? Can I download a patch from xbox live for those of us who dont play TSL on PC. Gimmi more details. And by more I mean a lot more.

 

I really don't feel like starting another debate regarding points we've already poured over, so I'll just give you an answer your last question:

 

TSL Restoration Project

 

I watched the restored version

Sion walks up to Nihilus all cocky, then Nihilus turns around, annoyed, and spams him with FPs

 

Yeah, I've seen the restored scene too. It was...well, it was all I had hoped for, to be brief. I really hope it finds it's way into the game somehow; it would be a shame to leave it as a standalone. (I love the part when Sion lurches up, staggaring towards Nihilus with his saber drawn. The music really works well there. )

[The Doctor]

I wish the site told us which parts were "beta-ready" instead of just telling us "O, here's something that's finished, you can download it". It's very irritating.

[90SK]

What are you talking about?

 

 

[lukeiamyourdad]

Oh, and LIAYD, of course it feels empty- the game is missing a certain something......like a vast amount of content! Korriban is effectively a stopgap level, designed so that you would have stopped there, done whatever little there is to do, and zoomed off to M4-78, and then back to Onderon for the rest of the game. Without it, events seem far too rushed, IMHO....

 

 

Random bashing at its best.

Far too rushed? It wasn't far too rushed. It was fine without M4-78. The absence of Master Vash is another story, but its inclusion or exclusion means nothing.

So yeah, content was "missing". That's relative as the developper removed the content. How can it be missing if it was never meant to be there?

All I'm saying is that things are fine without without M4-78. What if M4-78 was such an uninteresting planet the developpers removed it? Must everything be put on the shoulders of time constraint?

The only reason people are whining is the ending. If from the Ravager to Malachor, things had been done well and felt complete, there would be no complaints. The exclusion of M4-78 just became some sort of whiner "flagship".

[spinkle]

I love the endgame run in TSL, from the Atris confrontation through the very end...especially the Malachor Academy run. What could be more rewarding than killing assloads of enemies with the badass Jedi (or Sith) you've spent so long building? I'm more than willing to concede the endgame could be better fleshed out, and I'd really like if the endings included/involved more characters than just the ridiculous and pointless Mira/Hanharr redux that appears to affect absolutely nothing and the remote/G0-T0 standoff that comes up and is barely referred to again. (barely. it *is* mentioned). And yes, the final scene is a bit of letdown.

 

BUT.

 

I don't think I've ever really *liked* the end of a game. (except finishing Metroid series games with 100% of the objects...hubba hubba) My feelings towards conclusions range between "that could have been better," "i wasted my time learning how to defeat the end boss for THAT?" and "that ****in sucked." (last one is reserved for most Zelda games) FINISHING games is not the point; PLAYING the games is. (i know someone will argue that with me)

 

I agree with LIAYD. I'm curious to see what will be done with M4-78 by TSLRP, and I'm excited that they're working towards giving us what they feel will be a more "complete" experience...but frankly, the game is what is, i enjoyed and continue to enjoy what it is, and i have very little to bitch about when all is said and done. Let's put it this way: I am more excited about Legend of Zelda: The Twilight Princess than I am concerned with complaining about how bad LoZ: Majora's Mask was. So bring on KOTOR3! And if it suffers in all the ways the KOTOR2 suffered? I'll be a little disappointed, but honestly I'll likely play the **** out of that game, too =D

 

And yes, Doctor, TSL gets me a lot more involved, passionate and excited than K1 does. By far. Not starting as a Jedi and hating the triviality of Taris (prior to freeing Bastila) almost caused me to not play the game through my first time. I didn't much care for the characters on the whole (i again invite bashing, and i again exclude jolee) and i was glad to be done with the game when i got to the end. And surprise twist? I figured out I was Revan before leaving Taris. =\

[The Doctor]

What are you talking about?

 

 

What do you mean What am I talking about? See all the things that say beta-ready? I wish it said what those were instead or in addition to the fact that it's beta-ready. All it does is tell us what the module number is, and there are many people out there (myself included) who don't know which modules those are.

[Axe Windu]

Ok guess what... thought hat information is very cool... IT WAS LEFT OUT OF THE GAME. Which is why this was a bad game. And Im not gonna be able to fix my broken left out of the game game. I wont know HK saves the day or about the HK factories or GOTO 3 MAJOR PLOT HOLES. I wont know about the love story or the ending. 2 other things that were totally missing. So until I can log onto xbox live and Obsidion/LucasArts says hey guess what here is all the stuff we left out sorry this game was a dissapointment.

[90SK]

Ok guess what... thought hat information is very cool... IT WAS LEFT OUT OF THE GAME. Which is why this was a bad game. And Im not gonna be able to fix my broken left out of the game game.

 

It was not a "bad game". Your vaunted opinion is not fact, so please stop acting like it is. It's getting increasingly irritating. And frankly, not being able to fix it is your problem, not ours. You chose to get it for X-Box 2 months early, and now you pay the price.

 

See all the things that say beta-ready? I wish it said what those were instead or in addition to the fact that it's beta-ready. All it does is tell us what the module number is, and there are many people out there (myself included) who don't know which modules those are.

 

Ah, I see. Your original post was unclear to me.

 

@lukeiamyourdad

 

Ugh, I agree with you there. There are about 3 big holes in the game, and then we have a bunch of passé bull**** that gets regurgitated over and over again. Like this "level cap" I'm hearing about? What, the one that was increased 30 points from the original KotOR? What's wrong?

[SpaceAlex]

Ok so far this seems like a bunch of people vs Captain Skye. Lemmi just recap....

 

{snip} was it really necessary to quote the entire post????

 

First: The truth about GOTO:

 

If you gain enough influence with him, you can ask him about his trade secrets and if you pick the right dialog choices, he will admit that he's not really a human, but a droid.

 

 

Second: STOP WHINNING! **** If you don't like the game don't play it. Why have you played through KOTOR II more times then you did KOTOR, if you think the game's so bad. I doubt that the influence system and new features are the only things keeping you from uninstalling the game. You can't complete a game more than once, only because you like its features but hate everything else. The real truth, i belive, is that you completed the game so many times you got tired of it and started hating it. Now that you hate it, you're bashing it, because even though you want to stop playing it, you just can't. You think that maybe bashing it will help you somehow and you will finally be able to stop playing it.

 

* Everyone is allowed to give the opinion on their boards. There's no point in saying "stop whining" just because someone has a different opinion of the game.

[YertyL]

LOL I love these diologues:

 

A:I don't like this game!

B:Stop whining!

 

Anyways, I also think that TSL tries to be intellectually challenging instead of emotionally appealing and thus ultimately fails: If I want an intellectual challenge, I can red science books or something; that is not what games/films are there for. (although it can be a nice side effect )

TSL may be more elaborated, but it still has a "hollow" feeling about it, kinda like Episode 1 compared to the OT.

IMO, in TSL it is also pretty hard to like any party member at all - they all seem to either use you for their own goals (e.g. Kreia, HK-47,G0t0) or be utterly devoted to you and follow you without ever questioning you (e.g. Visas, Bao-Dur, Disciple, Handmaiden) - both does not really allow you to like and respect them.