Fire, slash... slash, fire!

[Vladimir-Vlada]

Not too many people seemed to find it as interesting or useful.

I think that that is mainly because those many people are hardcore RPG players. And they think that by seeing something that wasn't inserted earlier, be it great or not, is going into FPS. But what they don't want to admit is that Obisidan and Bioware broke several major rules in the RPG basis to make KOTOR.

[Cygnus Q'ol]

I think that that is mainly because those many people are hardcore RPG players. And they think that by seeing something that wasn't inserted earlier, be it great or not, is going into FPS. But what they don't want to admit is that Obisidan and Bioware broke several major rules in the RPG basis to make KOTOR.

 

Thank the stars. I love the concept of a hybrid RPG with the level of detail that Kotor brings. However, there will have to be another 'level up' as far as the Devs are concerned. A carbon copy of K2 simply won't cut it.

[Vladimir-Vlada]

A carbon copy of K2 simply won't cut it.

That's what I think as well. Too many rules have been broken, to be repaired now.

[Mono_Giganto]

Geez, people! They only have to type in 20 numbers.

 

Heh, okay, they type in the 20 numbers and do nothing else. Now, you load the game, equip a gun and a sword, and perform an attack. Your character suddenly jumps to an upright snow angel pose, shots fire from the gun, but the player doesn't move at all.

 

And then there's the coding involved to make the game function properly with 2 different types of weapons equipped at the same time, as it would be a new feature.

 

 

Yeah, 'typing in 20 numbers' is a huge understatement.

[Vladimir-Vlada]

Yeah, 'typing in 20 numbers' is a huge understatement.

Look I know that I overexagerated and I am sorry for that. But the feature is not that bad. Besides what would it change if it's inserted; First you say that it will make people abbandon the single sabre, then you say that it will cause over empowering of single sabre wielders.. I really don't understand why can this bring so much disbalance, it will only be for looks. It would make a penalty like with two melee weapons, only bigger. That's all.

[RedHawke]

^^^^

Sorry Vlad but Mono is correct... The penalties would outweigh the usefulness of the so-called form, and in these instances, for example in PnP sessions, as a GM you could allow the player to use this form, but swiftly the player would find out that it sucks... hopefully before his characters hit-points quickly reached 0.

 

So why include any development time for such a thing in the game.

 

Also...

 

I think that that is mainly because those many people are hardcore RPG players. And they think that by seeing something that wasn't inserted earlier, be it great or not, is going into FPS. But what they don't want to admit is that Obisidan and Bioware broke several major rules in the RPG basis to make KOTOR.

Still a sore spot there I see...

 

Bioware and OE broke no rules making KOTOR and TSL, they are 'Pure' RPG's... just because the ADD Generation, "button-mashing", adrenaline junkie, console kiddies cannot seem to grasp the concept of what a 'Pure' RPG is, is unimportant!

[Vladimir-Vlada]

So why include any development time for such a thing in the game.

Gamers don't need to use it. And even thoug it will be amost useless, some people would want to still use it even though it would make the game seem like it is way too hard, they will just accept the fact that it is very stupid, but still hold their teeth and use it because they like it.

 

I know I will.

 

Bioware and OE broke no rules making KOTOR and TSL, they are 'Pure' RPG's...

Oh, you didn't notice that my friend.

 

Of course, they didn't break the rules from the point of view of the game play. BUT they broke, at least, 5 rulse concerning the story.

 

Let me explain:

 

In the law of the RPG world there is always the law that states: Never continue the story of the previous one, if it is called 'Neverwinter Nights 2'. And I agree with them since any RPG with any knid of story, any kind of name and any kind is destined to be great; and it becomes great.

But in KOTOR... They broke those rules. Let me show you which:

 

1. Of course, any normal RPG would throw away the story of the previous one like it didn't exist; And I thought that they were going to do that with TSL. But instead, they continued the story from the first one, making a plot for a triology, which is forbbiden to any RPG out there. But they still did it.

 

2. In the RPGs as well, you can't have characters from the previous game in the squel so they are off the hook. But Bioware and Obsidian inserted, not just one character from the prequel, but 6 characters: Carth, Bastila, Canderous, T3, HK and Vrook. That's breaking the rules if you ask me.

 

3. In squels, you cannot mention the main character or his/her name in the squel EVER. But in TSL, Revan was like a central character.

 

I have to stop now, this post is stepping into another topic.

[Mono_Giganto]

Heh. First off, that's only 3, maybe 4, if you include the first bold part.

 

And, sure, they can mention the prequel character's name, especially in a case like this, where the first game's main character gets a 'standard' name after a certain point in the game. It's like if they didn't give you the option to name the character at all. The only reason they tend to stay away from naming the past characters in games like this is because the name was customizable. And the KotOR series is definitely not the only RPG series to do it, remember the old Dragon Warrior/Quest games? (New one looks pretty good.) Specifically I, II, and III. Well known, traditional RPGs. The main character of the third game, Loto/Erdrick, is mentioned throughout the other two. (Not sure about the new one.) He also has a full set of armor, complete with helmet and shield, a sword, and a seal listed as "Loto's ___" ingame. Breath of Fire is another example, with the main character, Ryu, being mentioned between games.

 

And by the way, I never said anything about overpowering single sabers. I gave you the technical arguement about why inserting the option would be a waste of time. This time around, I want my story first. If they make crappy models, we can fix that, at least.

[IndianaSolo]

Let me explain:

 

In the law of the RPG world there is always the law that states: Never continue the story of the previous one, if it is called 'Neverwinter Nights 2'. And I agree with them since any RPG with any knid of story, any kind of name and any kind is destined to be great; and it becomes great.

But in KOTOR... They broke those rules. Let me show you which:

 

1. Of course, any normal RPG would throw away the story of the previous one like it didn't exist; And I thought that they were going to do that with TSL. But instead, they continued the story from the first one, making a plot for a triology, which is forbbiden to any RPG out there. But they still did it.

 

2. In the RPGs as well, you can't have characters from the previous game in the squel so they are off the hook. But Bioware and Obsidian inserted, not just one character from the prequel, but 6 characters: Carth, Bastila, Canderous, T3, HK and Vrook. That's breaking the rules if you ask me.

 

3. In squels, you cannot mention the main character or his/her name in the squel EVER. But in TSL, Revan was like a central character.

 

I have to stop now, this post is stepping into another topic.

 

Is this actually true? If it is, then these "rules" for RPG are pretty damn stupid. By definition, a game can't be a "sequel" when it has pretty much zero to do with whatever came before it.

 

Where did you get these rules from?

[RedHawke]

Is this actually true? If it is, then these "rules" for RPG are pretty damn stupid. By definition, a game can't be a "sequel" when it has pretty much zero to do with whatever came before it.

 

Where did you get these rules from?

Vlad made them up out of thin air IndianaSolo so don't worry.

 

@ Vlad your so-called RPG story rules make no sense, and it would benefit you to venture back to the older venerable RPG's and giving them a shot before stating things steadfastly like you have.

 

Also as a game developer you will not put any rescources into a game option that very few players would even use, let alone would grant no benefits to use other than "looks"... in an RPG that's just silly!

 

The Melee/Ranged Mix options cannot be viable, it is one of the oldest attempted styles/exploits in RPG's and it fails every time! Your best bet would be a GunSword style, but still you could only use it as either Ranged or Melee in a single round, never can you do both.

 

Sorry, Vlad I just don't buy this whole discussion!

[Vladimir-Vlada]

And, sure, they can mention the prequel character's name, especially in a case like this, where the first game's main character gets a 'standard' name after a certain point in the game. It's like if they didn't give you the option to name the character at all. The only reason they tend to stay away from naming the past characters in games like this is because the name was customizable. And the KotOR series is definitely not the only RPG series to do it, remember the old Dragon Warrior/Quest games? (New one looks pretty good.) Specifically I, II, and III. Well known, traditional RPGs. The main character of the third game, Loto/Erdrick, is mentioned throughout the other two. (Not sure about the new one.) He also has a full set of armor, complete with helmet and shield, a sword, and a seal listed as "Loto's ___" ingame. Breath of Fire is another example, with the main character, Ryu, being mentioned between games.

Oh. Sorry, then.

 

Also as a game developer you will not put any rescources into a game option that very few players would even use, let alone would grant no benefits to use other than "looks"... in an RPG that's just silly!

Why do you say that? People do that often you know.

 

Take Diablo 2 for example. The thing is the most played RPG in the entire country here; The thing is older than my brother and people still play it (I don't play it because it gets boring to me after five minutes so I turn always to Jedi Academy to push my adrenaline and cheerfulness back). For the Horadric Cube they insert tons of completely useless combinations which no one uses. But yet, Blizzard still makes patches. So it's not as bad as it looks.

 

The Melee/Ranged Mix options cannot be viable, it is one of the oldest attempted styles/exploits in RPG's and it fails every time! Your best bet would be a GunSword style, but still you could only use it as either Ranged or Melee in a single round, never can you do both.

You can use penalties to solve that problem. You get 1/99999999999999999 chanses of hitting the opponent if you use both.

 

Sorry, Vlad I just don't buy this whole discussion!

It's not that bad. (I think)

[Cygnus Q'ol]

Vlad made them up out of thin air IndianaSolo so don't worry.

 

@ Vlad your so-called RPG story rules make no sense, and it would benefit you to venture back to the older venerable RPG's and giving them a shot before stating things steadfastly like you have.

 

Also as a game developer you will not put any rescources into a game option that very few players would even use, let alone would grant no benefits to use other than "looks"... in an RPG that's just silly!

 

The Melee/Ranged Mix options cannot be viable, it is one of the oldest attempted styles/exploits in RPG's and it fails every time! Your best bet would be a GunSword style, but still you could only use it as either Ranged or Melee in a single round, never can you do both.

 

Sorry, Vlad I just don't buy this whole discussion!

 

Well, I suppose that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Really, though, it's up to the developers and what they've decided to do with the next game.

 

I really don't see the problem with holding a short saber and deflecting blaster shots, then firing back down the corridor at my enemies. Perhaps, I'm a jedi in training and I can't let go of my blasters just yet. If that costs me points, then so be it. If that seems unnatural to those pure sabarist, then refrain from using this option.

 

Perhaps this could only work at a certain distance or something. It's just an option for the player. If you don't want the penalties, then, by all means, don't use this option. But, why limit me on my choices?

 

I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, everyone has their own opinions.

It doesn't matter what we say anyway. When/if the game is made, we'll all play it the way they make it. I'm sure it's gonna be fun. I can't wait.

[IndianaSolo]

Vlad made them up out of thin air IndianaSolo so don't worry.

 

I was going to say, if that was the case then most great cRPGs that I can recall all broke his so-called rules, since both Baldurs Gate 2 and Fallout 2 had sequels that had a lot to do with the previous game's stories/universe/characters. Even IWD 2 made mention of the events in IWD.

[lukeiamyourdad]

For the Horadric Cube they insert tons of completely useless combinations which no one uses. But yet, Blizzard still makes patches. So it's not as bad as it looks.

 

Not the same thing. The Horadric cube recipe was a cool concept at first. It allowed you to convert some useless equipment to more useful ones. However, notice the error they made. Most of these useless combinations have a better and less troublemaking alternative.

If holding a saber and blaster has a less troublemaking alternative, guess what will happen.

 

But, why limit me on my choices?

Because giving you more choices will mean spend more money for a very small number of people.

 

Oh, and I want to have sex with the Handmaiden on the Ebon Hawk. A pure explicit sex scene. Then maybe an orgy with all the other attractive females.

Hey, it's my choice and it's just an option!

[Mono_Giganto]

Interesting example....

 

Guess it makes the point though.

[Renegade Angel]

A saber AND a blaster just seems... un-Star Wars like....

[Vladimir-Vlada]

Oh, and I want to have sex with the Handmaiden on the Ebon Hawk. A pure explicit sex scene. Then maybe an orgy with all the other attractive females.

Hey, it's my choice and it's just an option!

That is complete over-exagerating. And guess what? Porn in game=S**t in game. Because Porn=S**t.

[RedHawke]

^^^^

Here goes Vlad calling LIAYD for over-exaggerating then going off on an over-exaggerating tangent of his own about Porn!

 

Pure comedy!

 

Edit: Thanks Vlad, I needed some humor right now!

[lukeiamyourdad]

That is complete over-exagerating. And guess what? Porn in game=S**t in game. Because Porn=S**t.

 

 

I could go and say dual wielding a saber and a blaster=**** in games, because dual wielding a saber and a blaster = ****.

 

Same logic. Besides, it's only an option. You don't have to choose it.

[Renegade Angel]

Okay guys, we don't need a flame fest started here. Keep on topic.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Uh, we are on topic and there has been no flaming as of yet.

[Renegade Angel]

Never mind, continue.

[Mono_Giganto]

You guys are great. This is so funny now.

[Renegade Angel]

And the funny just keeps on going....

[JediMaster12]

In the law of the RPG world there is always the law that states: Never continue the story of the previous one, if it is called 'Neverwinter Nights 2'. And I agree with them since any RPG with any knid of story, any kind of name and any kind is destined to be great; and it becomes great.

But in KOTOR... They broke those rules. Let me show you which:

 

1. Of course, any normal RPG would throw away the story of the previous one like it didn't exist; And I thought that they were going to do that with TSL. But instead, they continued the story from the first one, making a plot for a triology, which is forbbiden to any RPG out there. But they still did it.

 

2. In the RPGs as well, you can't have characters from the previous game in the squel so they are off the hook. But Bioware and Obsidian inserted, not just one character from the prequel, but 6 characters: Carth, Bastila, Canderous, T3, HK and Vrook. That's breaking the rules if you ask me.

 

3. In squels, you cannot mention the main character or his/her name in the squel EVER. But in TSL, Revan was like a central character.

 

I have to stop now, this post is stepping into another topic.

 

EXCUSE ME. Then what is the whole point of a sequel?

Lucas is know for his trilogies ie Star Wars and Indiana Jones. By the way he wrote both, shelved the Jones story and did Star Wars, his big thing. HE gave the story to friend Steven Spielberg to direct, his big thing.

I was under the impression that a true RPG game is the type of combat system it is. What you have listed here is nothing but nonsense. If the having the blaster in one hand and the saber in the other is going to create problems, then just leave it with only one type of weapon.

"Never tell me the odds."