Visas Marr Disucssion

[Cygnus Q'ol]

She's a decent fighter if leveled up and outfitted properly.

 

After initial coversations, however, she doesn't have much to say.

That's OK.

 

...that's how I like my slaves.

[SilverSentinal2]

(touching his apprentice would be an affront to his power) or would have done it himself. In this case we would get the Star Wars equivalent of rape: a male Sith Lord lashing out with DS Force powers on his female underling.

 

In a way, I suppose the Visas/Nihilus relationship could be envisioned as a wife/husband relationship (without the sexual content) where the husband comes home frustrated from work and tries to relieve his frustration by abusing his wife, doing it so often that the wife becomes too scared to leave or challenge him even though her sense of self worth has diminished so much that she feels she would rather die than live another day. While Visas was initially broken by the loss of her world and the vision of the power of death/nothingness that Nihilus showed her, by the time you meet her it seems that she at least to a certain (if not large) extent no longer believes, or is no longer sure she ever believed, in what made her submit to Nihilus in the first place. She hates him, she wants you to defeat him, and yet she lives in fear of what he will do to her when he sees her again.

 

 

I appreciate how well thought out your response is. Like I mentioned I never play DS, so I really never could imagine sith torture. I think the reason I was considering rape as a possibilty at all was because of the scene of Malak torturing Bastila; he strokes her face and speaks seductively to her. Also most Kotorians (not myself) Believe that Malak and a female Revan were lovers. Its obvious that Nihilius is twistedly obsessed with the poor girl so, thats where I got my thoughts from. Oh and you're example of the cycle of abusive relationships was dead on with what I was thinking.

[TheGreenGoblin]

^^^

 

Actually I read a pretty good fanfic once where the gist was that Malak had broken Bastila down through rape (he had underlings do it), to destroy her sense of self-worth and plant the idea that even if Revan did come for her, when he found out what had happened he wouldn't want her.

[SilverSentinal2]

I know the fic you're thinking of, it was catually one of the few Male Revan's I like. Also We have to remember that this is 4000 years before the movies, lots of people tend to be purists thinking that if it wouldn't happen in the movies, it wouldn't happen at all. That's fine if its what you like, but I would think that during those 4000 years lots of things would change. We know the Jedi did, as well as the rest of the galaxy why not the Sith? So far the biggest contender for torture is force storm, surely there are other ways for sith to leave physical scars. Anyway thanks for talking about this keep on giving me ideas I need them. BTW if anyone wants to read my fic its at fanfiction.net It's called "They Have Brought Truth" and my Pen name is SilverSentinal21

[PoiuyWired]

 

We might interpret physical torture as punishment, and we usually associate punishment with failure of some kind. If Nihilus, frequently unleashed his Force powers on Visas out of his own frustration with his progress in destroying the Jedi or the flow of power he felt, then it's possible, perhaps likely, that Visas came to associate such lashings with her master's displeasure with her. Therefore she eventually came to believe that she was doing something wrong almost continually, and in the natural struggle to improve oneself (and make the "punishments" stop) she would punish herself for her self-perceived short-comings even where no such short-comings existed.

 

While acting out one's frustrations on whatever is available does in fact often take the form of sexual abuse or rape in real life, the style/feel of the Star Wars galaxy and the the way Sith Lords are typically imagined make it unlikely that Nihilus either allowed such kind of abuse (touching his apprentice would be an affront to his power) or would have done it himself. In this case we would get the Star Wars equivalent of rape: a male Sith Lord lashing out with DS Force powers on his female underling.

 

In a way, I suppose the Visas/Nihilus relationship could be envisioned as a wife/husband relationship

<*SNAP*>

 

Nice one. Well said!

 

Actually I think its more like a Dommie/subbie(yes its one of those BDSM thingy) relationship than Husband/Wife. To a certain degree Visas is a masochist, and it shows when she considers your her new master while playing DS. I would suppose in a way Visas want to be abused by a master, in the twisted sense. Its one of those love/hate thing, and a DS Exile would be great for her, both strict and kind/loving. Maybe I have been reading too much form the little dialogue she has with Exile and the rest of the crew. Then again she is quite quiet, except for a few jealousy feats against Brianna.

 

Well, I consider the rape thing impossable cause of the body state Nihilus is in actually. One must wonder how functional his body is... I would say he is basically a corpse sustained by the force, akin to the force zombies he commands. Sure, it would be a highly likely event if he is able, but unfortunately he is not. As for the "let the underlings do it" part, its so not sith like.

 

Another thing is the "look upon each other" scene. Basically that is a "please use me for pleasure" request, in another way. It seems like Visas prefer that form of contact more than something simple as a kiss. Then again Miralukas are highly sensitive in force-isque senses, and it may make sense. Although, I doubt this would be that fun for a DS Exile.

 

Malak on the other hand... well the only thing he lacks is his jawbone!!!

[SilverSentinal2]

You make an interesting point again however we're talking about 4000 years before the movies. So what information do we have to determine what is "sith like"? I don't believe Visas is a masochist she begs to die more than once throughout the game. Its only on the Ravanger if you ask her to hang on does she develop the will to live. At all other points in the game she is strictly in survival mode willing to go alone with whatever you ask her to do.

 

Well I see that force storm is still the preferred device of torture, how unimaginative. Still I appreciate all of the posts. Remember I am also looking for theories on how our girl survived Katarr and what Nihilius showed to her.

[Grifman]

I like Visas, but my core complaint with TSL (other than the last 30 atrocious minutes of the game) is that the characters are all too alike.

 

In TSL, Visas is very similiar to the Handmaiden, who is also very similiar to Atton (once they're all jedi, that is).

 

No, not really. Handmaiden is a young woman who has led a very sheltered life, who has a young woman's crush on your character, and for the first time is having the opportunity to find herself, seek her own future, not tied to Atris. Visas who lost her homeworld has been freed by you, the PC, from a Sith Lord. She served him in fear and abuse, you she learns lessons in trust, goodness and loyalty. These are hardly the same characters.

 

Atton and Bao-Dur are also very similiar in their skills and fighting abilities. There just isn't a real strong line of difference between the characters like there was in the first game.

 

Again, I disagree. Atton is a wisecracking young man, but hides a dark secret, doesn't trust anyone. Bao-Dur is straightforward, calm persona who trusts, admires the "General", but feels guilt over Malachor. Again, very different characters.

[Emperor Devon]

I've got to agree with what Darth333 said. She had hardly any dialogue that could be exhausted in a few minutes, she teaches a completely useless force power, and they never even explain how she survived when Nihilus consumed her planet. She had so much potential, but barely any of it was fulfilled.

[Vibro]

I've got to agree with what Darth333 said. She had hardly any dialogue that could be exhausted in a few minutes, she teaches a completely useless force power, and they never even explain how she survived when Nihilus consumed her planet. She had so much potential, but barely any of it was fulfilled.

 

Doubled. She did have her uses though, especially for DS players.

[JediKnight707]

I don't think that Visas was raped. Tortured, yes. Raped? No. Well, she may have been raped by somebody other than Darth Nihilus, but I don't think that he has a.....male sex organ. He seemed to inhuman for it.

 

I like Visas though. She was always a strong character and you could always truust her in a fight. She wouldn't die in like a second, and she'd also dish out some damage.

[SilverSentinal2]

Since we have a general consences on the "rape" question thanks to all who answered; I think we should move on to the next question up for discussion.

Why or how did Visas survive Katarr? Kreia suggests that she is bonded to Nihilius in some way, but I see no evidence to back this up. If you kill him as a Light sider (shame on you for any who kill Visas) nothing happens to her. In fact her force sight heals and she's even stronger. Theorys anyone....

[PoiuyWired]

Visas, is bonded to you by then, mind and body... Yum.

[Emperor Devon]

Why she survived: It would be kind of cool for the Exile to have Nihilus' slave as a party member?

 

How she survived: I do jot know. Maybe because Nihilus and Visas were bonded, he subconsciously stopped himself from consuming her as well? There's proof that the two of them are bonded on the Ravager. If you have Visas kill herself, it weakens Nihilus.

 

Of course, that raises another question: How did they get bonded in the first place? I have absolutely no idea. Visas does not know the techniques that bond two individuals, and Nihilus just feeds and consumes people... he doesn't really form any connections.

 

The answer to all of this is: A plot hole!

[90SK]

Not necessarily. It's just a mystery. Not all mysteries are plot hole.

 

While we're on the subject, how did the Exile and Kreia get bonded? I don't recall it being thoroughly explained in my play through.

[Emperor Devon]

It actually is explained, but you have to do some digging and pay close attention to the storyline to find out.

 

We know that the Exile forms bonds with others by nature, and even with those who are not strong in the Force. If the Exile forms a bond with someone who is very strong in the Force (like Kreia), the results will be far greater. It is also likely that Kreia helped form the bond, because it was very useful to her.

[SilverSentinal2]

Visas, is bonded to you by then, mind and body... Yum.

Ok that was a little insensitive, a relationship between a man and woman deserves respect. Anyway I guess my answer is make a reason up. I hope I come up with a good one, maybe you all might check it out. Ok last thing and I'll shut up, what do you all think Nihilius showed Visas through the force in order to convert her to his cause?

[PoiuyWired]

Ok that was a little insensitive, a relationship between a man and woman deserves respect. Anyway I guess my answer is make a reason up. I hope I come up with a good one, maybe you all might check it out. Ok last thing and I'll shut up, what do you all think Nihilius showed Visas through the force in order to convert her to his cause?

 

 

Actually I DO MEAN IT when I say she is bonded to the Exile mind and Body. Basically she has transfered her loyalty and what not to the Exile, through a bit of adventuring together, a bit of Exile's personality(both DS or LS) and a bit of Exile's subconcious power. Its like the puppy that finds a new master, and maybe even a lover too.

 

As for what Nihilus Showed Visas, I think Visas mentioned something about seeing the whole universe thru a version of Force Sight where she can see the calm and beauty of lifelessness, and that sentients are a annoyance to this beauty, or things like that. Whatever it is, it seems that Nihilus is playing Dark Messiah/Savior by brainwashing little Visas quite some images.

[Emperor Devon]

Not quite. Visas said that where there was life, there was chaos. And where there was none, there was silence and order.

 

Of course, nihilus doesn't care about oorder or silence. He's just hungry.

 

Why did Nihilus convert Visas? Well, why not? Why did Malak have Bandon? Why did Sidious have Maul?

[SilverSentinal2]

Actually I DO MEAN IT when I say she is bonded to the Exile mind and Body. Basically she has transfered her loyalty and what not to the Exile, through a bit of adventuring together, a bit of Exile's personality(both DS or LS) and a bit of Exile's subconcious power. Its like the puppy that finds a new master, and maybe even a lover too.

 

As for what Nihilus Showed Visas, I think Visas mentioned something about seeing the whole universe thru a version of Force Sight where she can see the calm and beauty of lifelessness, and that sentients are a annoyance to this beauty, or things like that. Whatever it is, it seems that Nihilus is playing Dark Messiah/Savior by brainwashing little Visas quite some images.

 

Ok so you meant it, but still it sounds a little cheap by comparing it to a puppy and master relationship. And I adore my own puppy. But whatever, anyway you theory is a good one. Thanks for the thought