Saber system suggestions

[MeleeMaster]

I don't actually have this mod right now (so I don't know exactly how the saber system works) but I have a few suggestions, it would be cool if like in SP if you hit a saber staff on its hilt it would split it in half, and more realistically, it would be cool if it gave the user duals ONLY if it hits around/towards the center, and if the opponets saber hit around where the saber crytal(s) would be in the hilt then the staff user would only get one saber because the crystal on the other half of the hilt would have been destroyed. It would also be cool if some sort of penalty or damage would acur if you hit a single bladed saber hilt causing the user to either lose his saber or not be able to use it for a certain amount of time (it would be realistic if the same thing would happen to a cut-in-half staff hilt), and if the user is using duals and one of his saber hilts gets hit then the same thing should acur accept with the user being able to do dual attack animations with his other saber still working. Now if both the dual user's hilts get hit that would be very unfortunate.

 

And a new way to disarm and knock sabers out of peoples hands would be nice. You know how if you hit a lightsaber with a strong style move or some powerful guard crushing attack their saber and hands fly backwards and their guard is thrown off? It would be cool if the speed of the guard crush-knockback animation was reduced a little then if you could swing and hit the opponets lightsaber while his guard was knocked back then it would knock the saber right out of his hand.

[JRHockney*]

So, what's the point of the standard attack fakes then? Why not just have the attack fakes always cause saberlocks?

 

Well, the point of the standard attack fakes would be to cash in on where ever the defenders mishap bar is rather than cash in on the DP. It would give the attacker control over each one. Although, I suppose there's nothing wrong with having them both cause the quick saber locks. It would definitely add more of visual effect of locks.

 

I think I'd rather have these auto-win, fast locks as random events (like the way normal saber locks work) since they're mostly there just to look cool anyway. I also suspect that you'd need a bunch of new animations to make it work...it'll be interesting to see how MB2 handles whatever they're doing.

 

I'd personally rather the locks be more machanical like I suggested. Besides, if we do something that is too similar to what MB2 does, we are going to be accused of stealing their ideas by the MB2 players (whether or not the MB Team cares). I dont think we will need new saber lock anims, but if Keshire is willing to let us use his, that might be preferable.

 

If this idea and Keshire's blocking anims are added to 0.1.0, I'm hoping the combat will look a bit more like this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dykGRGzzVA&search=lightsaber%20fan%20film

 

Its something to shoot for anyways.

[Maxstate]

And a new way to disarm and knock sabers out of peoples hands would be nice. You know how if you hit a lightsaber with a strong style move or some powerful guard crushing attack their saber and hands fly backwards and their guard is thrown off? It would be cool if the speed of the guard crush-knockback animation was reduced a little then if you could swing and hit the opponets lightsaber while his guard was knocked back then it would knock the saber right out of his hand.

 

Yeah we need a new way for controlled disarms.

[MeleeMaster]

Because in real life if you knocked away someone's guard like in JA then if you could reach out and hit their saber with enough force while their guard was still thrown off you could send that sword flying right out of their hand.

 

Also could you please take my ideas about the whole hilt damage system thing into consideration?

[JRHockney*]

Also could you please take my ideas about the whole hilt damage system thing into consideration?

 

This idea has been suggested before and we've thought about it; however, it is almost impossible to implement without new animations and we do not have any officail animators at the moment. If you can create animations using dragon or something else or know someone who can, we would be quicker to consider this.

 

Because in real life if you knocked away someone's guard like in JA then if you could reach out and hit their saber with enough force while their guard was still thrown off you could send that sword flying right out of their hand.

 

We already have what your suggesting. Its called a "conversion" or 'heavybounce conversion." Read the manual in the Enhanced folder to see how you do it, but more recently we've changed it so all conversions do disarms (and they look really cool btw).

 

The idea I've suggested above would also allow for disarms when the play is low on DP or balance.

[UDM]

Another reason why I think saber locks should be done in hockney's "pre-determined" way instead of button mashing is because right now saber locks are quite useless. Before ie. normal jka, saber locks can determine if you score a free frag, since once you win a saber lock, you gain the upper hand. Now, as long as the enemy isn't low on DP, a saber lock winner can sometimes be disadvantaged. As the saber lock completes, the loser can take the opportunity to strike back, which just renders the whole system useless

[MeleeMaster]

Like I said I haven't actually played the mod yet, sounds cool though, I gotta try it. Here's another quick idea, the thing that's really annoyed me in both MP and SP is how whenever your character does a spin attack it leaves him/her open (on Jedi Knight difficulty the Reborn Masters can do instant counters so if you spin your as good as dead) and in MP your opponet can get a critical while your open. There should be some small benefit by risking getting hit for spinning. In real life if you did a spin attack it would add a moderate amount of power and speed to your slash. So it would be realistic if spin attacks with any saber had around 35% more physical force (for example if a certain slash had more physical force it would be somewhat more likely to knock an opponnets guard back/crush their guard) and if it did a little more damage like around 25-40% more. Or something like that, I don't know how the saber system works exactly with the parries and mishaps and DP related stuff, but just make spin slashes somewhat more powerful in exchange for risking getting hit, like make them harder to parry and have more physical force or something. It would be realistic.

 

And about the hilt damage thing, I myself can animate but kind of suck at it. I can try and find someone who will. Wudan is like the master of animation, you could ask him though you probably already have.

[Sushi_CW]

I don't actually have this mod right now (so I don't know exactly how the saber system works) but I have a few suggestions, it would be cool if like in SP if you hit a saber staff on its hilt it would split it in half,

 

I could've sworn I saw something about this in the code. It might even be a server-side option to turn it on in some mods, although I don't know about this one. Maybe I'm getting confused and it's only an option for single player... although it definitely does exist there.

 

And a new way to disarm and knock sabers out of peoples hands would be nice. You know how if you hit a lightsaber with a strong style move or some powerful guard crushing attack their saber and hands fly backwards and their guard is thrown off? It would be cool if the speed of the guard crush-knockback animation was reduced a little then if you could swing and hit the opponets lightsaber while his guard was knocked back then it would knock the saber right out of his hand.

 

You really should try this mod... see Hockney's comments.

 

If this idea and Keshire's blocking anims are added to 0.1.0, I'm hoping the combat will look a bit more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dyk...er%20fan%20film

 

Sweet video.

 

I've been half-poking around the latest lightning strike problem... it seems to me that it has something to do with the transition moves that happen right around saber impact. My best GUESS at the moment is that it has to do with ps->saberBlocked and the fact that several of the BG_SaberInXYZ functions (such as BG_SaberInTransitionDamageMove) only return true if the saber animation is a transition AND ps->saberBlocked is set to BLOCKED_NONE.

 

While getting the mishap bar to stop regenning while swinging, I noticed that if I stopped regen on BG_SaberInFullDamageMove and BG_SaberInTransitionDamageMove it would stop mishap regen during swings (and multiple chained swings) with the sole exception of when I hit someone. Then, the regen would turn on for a fraction of a second before turning back off while I continued my swing off the bounce. If I use BG_SaberInTransitionAny instead of BG_SaberInTransitionDamageMove, there isn't that moment where the mishap regen resumes and then immediately halts. BG_SaberInTransitionAny does not check ps->saberBlocked, but BG_SaberInTransitionDamageMove (and others) do, which is why I suspect ps->saberBlocked.

 

I don't know if any of that was useful or not (based on only a partial understanding of the code), but hey, couldn't hurt, right?

[MeleeMaster]

Also, I made a typo in my post,

 

QUOTE-It would be cool if the speed of the guard crush-knockback animation speed was reduced a little..............-QUOTE

 

Ok

[razorace]

I've been half-poking around the latest lightning strike problem... it seems to me that it has something to do with the transition moves that happen right around saber impact. My best GUESS at the moment is that it has to do with ps->saberBlocked and the fact that several of the BG_SaberInXYZ functions (such as BG_SaberInTransitionDamageMove) only return true if the saber animation is a transition AND ps->saberBlocked is set to BLOCKED_NONE.

 

While getting the mishap bar to stop regenning while swinging, I noticed that if I stopped regen on BG_SaberInFullDamageMove and BG_SaberInTransitionDamageMove it would stop mishap regen during swings (and multiple chained swings) with the sole exception of when I hit someone. Then, the regen would turn on for a fraction of a second before turning back off while I continued my swing off the bounce. If I use BG_SaberInTransitionAny instead of BG_SaberInTransitionDamageMove, there isn't that moment where the mishap regen resumes and then immediately halts. BG_SaberInTransitionAny does not check ps->saberBlocked, but BG_SaberInTransitionDamageMove (and others) do, which is why I suspect ps->saberBlocked.

 

I don't know if any of that was useful or not (based on only a partial understanding of the code), but hey, couldn't hurt, right?

You might be on to something. The reason for the saberBlocked check is due to impacts causing a change in a player's animation before the animation takes effect the next time the entity is run thru the pmove code and has it's saberBlocked status translate into an animation. I did that to prevent multiple impacts from a single impact in the same frame. Maybe there is an issue with the way InTransitionAny is used in the bgame vs the intransitiondamagemove used in the saber behavior code.

[UDM]

Also, I made a typo in my post,

 

QUOTE-It would be cool if the speed of the guard crush-knockback animation speed was reduced a little..............-QUOTE

 

Ok

Check out the latest version, the speed has been reduced

[MeleeMaster]

Well, I just got Movie Battles 2, I love the saber system because its so simple and movie realistic at the same time. I'm going try and get really good at MB2 then I'll give OJP a shot. Its hard to beat gun people in MB2 even if your a Jedi or Sith, they have nasty grenades that can blow the crap out of you, and if you want out of force you can block laser fire and your as good as dead. I'll try OJP soon though. In 4 weeks school will start for me again though and my free-time will be cut-short by a lot. OJP is freaking awesome though, don't get me wrong.

[JRHockney*]

Well, I just got Movie Battles 2, I love the saber system because its so simple and movie realistic at the same time. I'm going try and get really good at MB2 then I'll give OJP a shot. Its hard to beat gun people in MB2 even if your a Jedi or Sith, they have nasty grenades that can blow the crap out of you, and if you want out of force you can block laser fire and your as good as dead. I'll try OJP soon though. In 4 weeks school will start for me again though and my free-time will be cut-short by a lot. OJP is freaking awesome though, don't get me wrong.

 

No!! He's turning to the darkside!! LOL Just kidding. Yeah, MB2 is awsome as an overall mod. Pretty much all of us who play OJP Enhanced on this forum are MB2 vets. Heck, Maxstate (AKA TK Paddy) was runner up in the last MB2 saber tourney. Jack Baldy is also an MB2 master saberist although I haven't seen him here in a while. I'm a decent MB2 saberist, but I love killing gunners over there(yep, even with deflect).

 

I switched to OJP because I saw great potential in the saber system even before it had half as many features as it does now and after what we've accoplished in the past six months, I dont think I could really go back and play MB2 nearly as much as I use to. This community is also alot smaller than MB2's so it is alot easier to get ideas in. We've hardly even started on any kind of gunner balance or class system(which is hard because we are trying to be movie realistic and jedi/sith own everything in the movies); but thanks to the efforts of this small community, our sabersystem is now more complex, more movie realistic, and more fun to watch at the moment. Of course this could change with up coming MB2 builds, but I havent seen any indication that it will get that much better sabersystem wise.

 

Anyways, have fun with MB2. We are proud to be affilates of that mod and its community. Their fun factor is based almost entirely on seige type gameplay where as ours is based more on FFA. We have a long ways to go and need alot more help before we can match the overall gameplay of their seige.

[MeleeMaster]

LOL, I went from noob to about medium-skilled player yesterday. My name is The One in blue, some suck yesterday kept copying my name and calling me a fake. It was real annoying. And you see I binded f to say "FEEL THE POWER OF THE FORCE" and everytime he tried to talk I pressed it lol. MB2 relly feels like the movies, Im always playing the duel of the fates map so the music is playing, and whenever I see the glow of a red saber I ready myself for a confrontation. One time after I had done somework in the generator room I went into the huge room with all theplatforms and to get ambushed by 2 bounty hunters and I couldnt hit them because they had a large arial advantage and they kept trying to surround me but I kept outsmarting them and eventually they gave up. Its only my 3rd day playing. A few times I got ambushed by a bunch of dark jedi and bounty hunters in the generator room lol. Its also really awesome how whenever your in a saber duel your in defensive stance just like in the movies where they constantly strafe around eachother seeing who will strike first. I also kind of need some tips on fighting gunners because they usually kill me while Im trying to slash them lol. Enough about Movie Battles. OJP seems so complicated when it comes to the saber system. Its seems pretty cool though. When it comes to guns vs saber dont make it too balanced. And by the way, I PMed Wudan about the whole hilt damage animation thing and he hasn't replied. I can't wait to see what happens to OJP in the future. It would be cool if OJP and MB2 could get kind of fused together where you could switch between them whenever you want or chose what saber system you want to use for what mod etc. or something like that would be pretty sweet..

[Maxstate]

LOL, I went from noob to about medium-skilled player yesterday. My name is The One in blue, some suck yesterday kept copying my name and calling me a fake.

 

It was real annoying. And you see I binded f to say "FEEL THE POWER OF THE FORCE" and everytime he tried to talk I pressed it lol. MB2 relly feels like the movies, Im always playing the duel of the fates map so the music is playing, and whenever I see the glow of a red saber I ready myself for a confrontation.

 

One time after I had done somework in the generator room I went into the huge room with all theplatforms and to get ambushed by 2 bounty hunters and I couldnt hit them because they had a large arial advantage and they kept trying to surround me but I kept outsmarting them and eventually they gave up.

 

Its only my 3rd day playing. A few times I got ambushed by a bunch of dark jedi and bounty hunters in the generator room lol. Its also really awesome how whenever your in a saber duel your in defensive stance just like in the movies where they constantly strafe around eachother seeing who will strike first. I also kind of need some tips on fighting gunners because they usually kill me while Im trying to slash them lol. Enough about Movie Battles. OJP seems so complicated when it comes to the saber system. Its seems pretty cool though. When it comes to guns vs saber dont make it too balanced. And by the way, I PMed Wudan about the whole hilt damage animation thing and he hasn't replied. I can't wait to see what happens to OJP in the future.

 

It would be cool if OJP and MB2 could get kind of fused together where you could switch between them whenever you want or chose what saber system you want to use for what mod etc. or something like that would be pretty sweet..

 

There, much easier to read.

MB for me remains stupid. It's saber system (why I played it) is so random that getting good at it means NOTHING. Skilled players could just as easily get beaten by silly noobs as they could by other skilled people. Not to mention that you're automatically a 'bugger' if you beat someone 3 times in a row.

 

The endless verbal battle between gunners and jedi also gets old. "OMG T3!!1", "PUSH WHORE", "GRIP Wh0R3" , "LIGHTNING B1TCH" , "SABER THROW NOOB" and ofcourse "PULL NOOB" we're constant 'conversations' between gunners and their counterparts, whatever you used, they'd whine.

 

Same for Jedi though: "RED NOOB" , "RED BUGER", "BLUE BUGGER" and yes I've even heard "YELLOW BUGGGGGGEERRR" became almost like death binds for every duel. Yeah, bugs 'a plenty in MB, almost no way around them.

I've been accused of "style changing bugs" by "[RUS]SuperKiller" , he said that changing to either blue or red is a bug and shouldn't be used.

 

I'll keep this short. In conclusion, ^ that topped off with this machiavellian, arrogant dev team (most of them , not all ) made MB ****. Slowly but surely.

 

MB is like the one-night stand that everyone's had a go at, but OJP is the wife that cooks you dinner every night. Comparing MB and OJP on similar levels OJP is a much better mod. Much much better.

[JRHockney*]

Lets try not to go bad mouthing MB2 or the staff. We are still affilates and we are still allowed to share alot of featues.

 

But yeah if your comparing saber system alone, theres little compison. Max knows more than most about the bugs in the MB2 saber combat and how they can very easily they can spoil things for vets. Probably the biggest problem in MB2 is the age of the player becoming so young over the past year, and as a result, you have alot of complainers like Max mentioned. Sadly, MB2 isnt very fast about fixing their saber system bugs manily because they have a thousand and one features to worrying about. Since we are saber system focused at the moment, most of our bugs dont go beyond a few weeks without getting squashed.

 

As far as complexity is concerned, ours really isnt that complicated after you learn how to parry well. After that, its just about knowing the exploits and using our newer tricks and moves. Trust me, once you know how to parry well, you'll be begging for even more options.

[Maxstate]

Lets try not to go bad mouthing MB2 or the staff. We are still affilates and we are still allowed to share alot of featues.

 

But yeah if your comparing saber system alone, theres little compison. Max knows more than most about the bugs in the MB2 saber combat and how they can very easily they can spoil things for vets. Probably the biggest problem in MB2 is the age of the player becoming so young over the past year, and as a result, you have alot of complainers like Max mentioned. Sadly, MB2 isnt very fast about fixing their saber system bugs manily because they have a thousand and one features to worrying about. Since we are saber system focused at the moment, most of our bugs dont go beyond a few weeks without getting squashed.

 

As far as complexity is concerned, ours really isnt that complicated after you learn how to parry well. After that, its just about knowing the exploits and using our newer tricks and moves. Trust me, once you know how to parry well, you'll be begging for even more options.

 

I'm sorry, you're right.

[MeleeMaster]

Well MB2's saber system is kind of random but its movie-realistic, that's what I like about it. So is OJP, but the thing is, it seriously feels like your doing a movie battle.

 

The thing is, I didn't notice any bugs but Im sure they're are some.

[Maxstate]

Well MB2's saber system is kind of random but its movie-realistic, that's what I like about it. So is OJP, but the thing is, it seriously feels like your doing a movie battle.

 

The thing is, I didn't notice any bugs but Im sure they're are some.

 

How is it movierealistic?

 

Have you ever seen a jedi come crouching at a sith's legs spamming attacks? Or see a sith killing a jedi with a side hit? Or even two jedi fighting only by jumping and saber throwing each other?

[MeleeMaster]

Have you ever seen people die in one-hit because they let their guard down (hmm, interestingly when a lightsaber touches you your supposed to die, intriging I know)?

 

Have you ever seen the Jedi who crouched and kept spamming die because they're BP got too low?

 

Have you ever seen a Jedi block a saber throw knocking the saber to the ground, its surprisingly realistic.

 

Have you ever seen the saber-throwers die because they're saber was knocked out of their hand or because they ran out of BP in a duel or because they got shot by a gunner from lack of force?

 

Have you ever realized that maybe if a lightsaber hit you in the side of your torso you would die too?

 

Have you ever realized that just because a newbie kills a vet once the vet will come back and kill him atleast 8 out of 10 times?

 

Have you ever noticed how when Qui-gon was fighting Darth Maul in Ep 1 Qui-gon was on the ground almost dead in the blink of an eye just like in MB2?

 

Have you ever realized, Im not bad mouthing OJP but rather just telling why MB2's saber system doesnt suck?

[Maxstate]

Have you ever seen people die in one-hit because they let their guard down (hmm, interestingly when a lightsaber touches you you're supposed to die, intriguing I know)?

 

Thats not the point, I speak of actions with guards fully up.

But if that's not satisfying, ask the dev members for a feature called "autoblock".

 

 

Have you ever seen the Jedi who crouched and kept spamming die because their BP got too low?

No, because if someone is doing that and using red style you DIE as soon as you let go of your blocking button. Try it, it's really really fun

Have you ever seen a Jedi block a saber throw knocking the saber to the ground, its surprisingly realistic.

Have you ever seen a jedi slashing towards a thrown saber, see his saber hit the flying one but still see the jedi get damage? I have.

 

Have you ever seen the saber-throwers die because their saber was knocked out of their hand or because they ran out of BP in a duel or because they got shot by a gunner from lack of force?

Thats a 'what-if' , I wasn't talking about what ifs. And no, there are lots of map bugs to exploit in MB and lots of areas jedi can go that gunners can't reach as easily.

 

Have you ever realized that maybe if a lightsaber hit you in the side of your torso you would die too?

Yes I have, but this feature is only in MB.

Have you ever realized that just because a newbie kills a vet once the vet will come back and kill him atleast 8 out of 10 times?

How does that contradict what I said?

 

Have you ever noticed how when Qui-gon was fighting Darth Maul in Ep 1 Qui-gon was on the ground almost dead in the blink of an eye just like in MB2?

No, Qui gon got a hilt bash from Maul which stunned him (OMG OJP STUNS!1) and then Maul stabbed his saber into his stomach. Quigon lived for a few minutes after that.

Have you ever realized, Im not bad mouthing OJP but rather just telling why MB2's saber system doesnt suck?

Have you ever realized that its not YOU I'm badmouthing and that it's not YOU I have a grudge against but rather.. MB...?

 

Fixed some spelling there too, mate

 

I'm not your enemy here.

[JRHockney*]

Have you ever realized that its not YOU I'm badmouthing and that it's not YOU I have a grudge against but rather.. MB...?

 

We couldn't tell. LOL Its hard to argue with a former MB2 saber master, but I personally believe that the MB2 saber system will be fine after the bugs and the cheesy exploits are fixed. Its really a matter of personal preference. Some people prefer one running swing at a time with a ton of circling in block stance to having to think really fast for each hit in a combo toe to toe like we have to. Theres still plenty of strategy to be found in MB2s sabersystem if you dont use the cheap exploits and just happen to have a bug free match.

[UDM]

*sniff sniff* I smell the fumes of...napalm and flame wars...and no it's not my dad's cigarettes...

[Maxstate]

*sniff sniff* I smell the fumes of...napalm and flame wars...and no it's not my dad's cigarettes...

I wont let it come to that, and hopefully I haven't insulted anyone yet.

[MeleeMaster]

When got stabbed he fell instantly before you could really take in what happened, same thing in MB2, if you let your guard you could die just like that in the blink of an eye, that fast, its realistic if you ask me.