Saber system suggestions

[JRHockney*]

Hmmm maybe Force Protect could be auto-enabled, when your DP is 0. When enemies shoot or smack you, you lose force points instead, but only and ONLY when your DP is 0

 

Pros of this idea:

- allows you more time to run away when the situation is looking bad

- good for defensive players who would die without the additional buffer of force points

 

Cons:

- can't think of any

 

I'm not sure about this. That seems like alot of extra protection. It depends on how much we make the cost of shots or smacks or whatever. If its alot, then I guess it makes sense, but protection should be very expensie then.

 

On the issue of dodge, I think dodge should be a given to both mercs and Jedi. However, Jedi should receive like 100 dodge, while mercs only 50, since they'll be receiving all the cool nifty gadgets to help them obtain quick kills and quick escapes

 

That might work too.

 

I just had an interesting idea on the swing to swing or block to swing transitions that might make the game play make more sense to new people and in general:

 

1. Only allow the swing to swing transitions when your last swing hasn't been parried or attack parried.

2. Only allow Block to swing transitions when you just parried or attack parried them.

3. maybe make the the swing to swing and block to swing transitions a little bit faster. For the block to swing, maybe even shorten the parry animation or something.

 

This way, The person who parried or didnt get their swing parried will be able to easly swing first and not make the combat look stall ridden like it kinda did back in 0.0.9. The combat will also make more realistic sense and players will be able to tell better when they just parried someone or didn't get parried.

 

I'm actually talking about BIG mishaps like knockdowns,stumbles, and disarms. Disarms rarely happen because heavybounces arnt frequent enough or benefitial enough compared to knockdowns (which is another reason why my other idea is better), so everything big is primarily caused by kick or maxout.

 

Yes Jon! THats a great idea!! we really should start thinking about that!

[Maxstate]

=

 

I just had an interesting idea on the swing to swing or block to swing transitions that might make the game play make more sense to new people and in general:

 

1. Only allow the swing to swing transitions when your last swing hasn't been parried or attack parried.

2. Only allow Block to swing transitions when you just parried or attack parried them.

3. maybe make the the swing to swing and block to swing transitions a little bit faster. For the block to swing, maybe even shorten the parry animation or something.

 

This way, The person who parried or didnt get their swing parried will be able to easly swing first and not make the combat look stall ridden like it kinda did back in 0.0.9. The combat will also make more realistic sense and players will be able to tell better when they just parried someone or didn't get parried.

 

 

 

Yes Jon! THats a great idea!! we really should start thinking about that!

Meesa like!

 

Also, riposting a power attack should result in a disarm.

NO BUTTS! DISARRRMRRMRMRMRMR!!1117285672876shift

[razorace]

So, basically, you wouldn't be able to attack immediately after an attack if you were parried by your opponent?

[JRHockney*]

So, basically, you wouldn't be able to attack immediately after an attack if you were parried by your opponent?

 

Yeah or after you didn't parry a hit. A person who did parry a hit should be able to attack very quickly after their parry so it makes it more like a real combat transition.

 

And HAPPY 1000 POSTS, MY BEAUTIFUL SABER SUGGESTIONS THREAD!!! Ahh the times we've had! LOL

[UDM]

Wait, Jon, by parry, you're referring to attack parry and not normal parry right?

 

Just clarifying. I'd be against it if it was normal parry, because then it'd look like 009b

 

Also, with regards to the force protect idea, I've thoguht of 2 cons:

 

1) May only be able to take off a few hits (4-5) before FP goes to 0. This way, it doesn't become overly powerful, and you don't have to make it super expensive too

2) Forces player to go defensive in the event that DP hits 0, since he can't attack for nuts as he is reliant on FP for attacking

[Maxstate]

Wait, Jon, by parry, you're referring to attack parry and not normal parry right?

 

Just clarifying. I'd be against it if it was normal parry, because then it'd look like 009b

 

No dude, that's what I thought. He didn't say you would get bounced immediately, he said that people that parry or don't get parried should have a speed bonus. So people that are good parriers and good attackers should be just THAT much quicker to initiate an attack from a block or another attack than the people that CAN'T block or attack right.

 

This would certainly get rid of lucky kills and would create a real skill meter, but I'd much rather like to see more skills based on designs like this. Too bad Ace doesn't have the time anymore

[JRHockney*]

No dude, that's what I thought. He didn't say you would get bounced immediately, he said that people that parry or don't get parried should have a speed bonus. So people that are good parriers and good attackers should be just THAT much quicker to initiate an attack from a block or another attack than the people that CAN'T block or attack right.

 

This would certainly get rid of lucky kills and would create a real skill meter, but I'd much rather like to see more skills based on designs like this. Too bad Ace doesn't have the time anymore

 

Yeah thats the hope of it. Although its not just a speed boost, its being able to combo when you arent parried and bounce into a swing after you parry. This is mainly based on whether or not you can do the swing to swing transitions or swing to block transitions (one of the features we added in 0.0.9 and have kept) which are quicker than a default bounce and swing again move. You can still combo when you are parried especially if the parrier chooses not to swing after, but that swing after you get parried will not bounce into a swing like it normally would right now. You would have to start over in your combo a bit.

[Maxstate]

Saber system suggestions:

 

-Riposting a power attack should lead to a disarm.

-Escaping a superbreak should be possible by timing a jump just right, but it would take 20 FP to perform amd Jump 3 is a must.

 

I think strategy and wits should also be infused into saberplay, so I suggest:

-Raising backwhack damage to big numbers (very big) to make it worth while getting behind someone's back. I also suggest adding Saber Defense 3 as a counter for it, if you buy it, you don't have any worsened effects.

 

-All DFA's should do more damage.

-Red and Purple long DFA's (done by holding jump and attack instead of tapping) should knock people down on-hit.

-DFA's that hit bounced people's sabers in the air should result in a disarm.

 

-Acrobatics such as rolling and carthwheeling should be sped up and should get a slight distance boost.

 

-A new jump skill should be added that increases Jump Height to 24x regular jump height. Or anything in that direction, I'd be content with 20 too.

You could also just boost all the current jumps.

 

-Getting more consecutive blaster shots at jedi should multiply the damage and lower the accuracy rate of reflections. I think we should use the mishap bar to determine accuracy rate of deflections, with 100%* being 0 mishap, which would slowly go up when you get shot and drop as you dodge shots or rest. It should lower faster than lets say from saber slashes, and it should rise up one bit for every 5 shots.

*(saber defense 3)

 

-Manual Deflect should have a bigger working time, don't make it too hard to do.

Just fakes is fine by me but it might be a bit too hard for now, and with our hit detection, Jedi just look like idiots faking around while the shots aren't even hitting.

 

I propose something like : Still standing jedi should only need to tap fak as a shot hits them, without the shot needing to land while the jedi is in the fake animation, to Manually deflect.

 

Force power tweaks:

Pull:

Pull is fine the way it is, I would like to see Pull 2 only pull WEAPONS from people though. I suggest weapons be pulled from people if they're running and your crosshair is on them.

Also I'm hoping things in the world like medpacks and ammo will be pullable in 0.1.0?

 

Push:

Push 1 should be able to push only the weakest of projectiles, like gunfire and thermals at random directions.

Push 2 should be able to push opponents AWAY, and should be able to push all projectiles away.

Push 3 can push opponents OVER and can push all projectiles that are aimed at.

We also need a circle push power...

 

One last thing about push: Why can't I push thermals that are on the ground ? That's just ridiculous? Was it meant to be that way?

 

Drain should become a passive power that lets you use your DP as FP to cast more force powers, fatigue is ignored though.

Drain 1 : 10 DP = 1fp

Drain 2: 5 DP = 1 FP

Drain 3: 1 DP = 1 FP

 

Rage should let you use your DP as FP to enable you to get just a few more strikes into someone without being fatigued.

Rage 1: 10 seconds, 15DP = 1FP

Rage 2: 20 seconds, 10DP = 1FP

Rage 3: 30 seconds, 5 DP = 1FP

 

Protect should be autopush and should also work passively.

Protect 1: Thermal autopush.

Protect 2: Repeater secondary autopush.

Protect 3: rocket autopush.

Remember that autopushing should not be REFLECTED pushing, this is overpowered.

The projectile should go in random directions.

 

Force speed should become burst of speed like I've always said.

It should be like the SWBF2 Sprint and should enable you to stay in speed mode as long as you hold your button.

Speed 1: 30 FP per second.

Speed 2: 20 fp per second.

Speed 3: 10 fp per second.

 

Additional notes:

Any shots to the back of jedi while in cloaked mode should ignore saber deflect and go straight to his dodge points. Are adding the disruptor? Would be great if we pumped the disruptor and made it the standard weapon of choice.

 

 

Please guys, please get some of these ideas in. The ones I'd like to see most are the saber ones (DFA and such) and the sprint force power.

Please.

 

I'm working on a thermal detonator efx file right now btw, the staff lunge is as good as fixed, I'll test it later tonight or tomorrow before school. I want 0.1.0 to be purrrrfect.

[razorace]

Yeah thats the hope of it. Although its not just a speed boost, its being able to combo when you arent parried and bounce into a swing after you parry. This is mainly based on whether or not you can do the swing to swing transitions or swing to block transitions (one of the features we added in 0.0.9 and have kept) which are quicker than a default bounce and swing again move. You can still combo when you are parried especially if the parrier chooses not to swing after, but that swing after you get parried will not bounce into a swing like it normally would right now. You would have to start over in your combo a bit.

I like the idea. I think I can make it so players can't combo after getting parried and be able to combo out of a parry but not out of a block. However, this might cause issues with the pre-cog blocking.

[Maxstate]

OH yes also not to forget:

When someone deflects while in a slash, make them cancel their attack and force them to return to ready mode before being able to slash again. <-- very important.

[razorace]

I believe the mod already does that. I actually find it to be rather annoying. I think we might want to pull that back out.

[JRHockney*]

I like the idea. I think I can make it so players can't combo after getting parried and be able to combo out of a parry but not out of a block. However, this might cause issues with the pre-cog blocking.

 

I think its worth a try because of what it could mean for the intuitiveness of our system for us and new people. The precog blocking I'm not too worried about. The fact that we had to change the way to do attack parries to what I'm starting to think is a less reliable method kind of hurt my liking of the precog blocks even though they make things look a bit better.

[razorace]

Ok, I've implimented your suggestions into the code. I haven't had a chance to try it with a human player but it looks like it makes defenders more able to switch from defence to attack. Good stuff.

[UDM]

Sounds nice!

 

On the sidenote, gonna start on a co-op map tomorrow. Goodbye social life. Most of my friends are going overseas, so I can take a break from social life and hit the nerd desk

[JRHockney*]

Ok, I've implimented your suggestions into the code. I haven't had a chance to try it with a human player but it looks like it makes defenders more able to switch from defence to attack. Good stuff.

 

Woo Hoo! Let me know if you want to test it out. I could also use a newer version if possible. My code is still having problems compiling right.

 

On the sidenote, gonna start on a co-op map tomorrow. Goodbye social life. Most of my friends are going overseas, so I can take a break from social life and hit the nerd desk

 

Ewwww, Nerds!!! I hate em!! They all think Kirk was a better Captain than Picard!! (snorts and pushes glasses back on nose) Sounds good. I might try some coop maps too once I learn to map.

[UDM]

I'm just a little worried ya know. Especially with Ace leaving the project soon, who's gonna take over the programming part?

 

Btw IMHO why bother about a version 0.1.0? Why don't we just shoot up R1 (which stands for Release 1)? Sounds better too, and that's what Masters of the Force was released with . And anyway by the time 0.1.0 is released (which probably is a "when it's done" release date), we'd have accomplished a LOT...

[{TheChosenOne}]

Sounds nice!

 

On the sidenote, gonna start on a co-op map tomorrow. Goodbye social life. Most of my friends are going overseas, so I can take a break from social life and hit the nerd desk

 

Sorry I've been off MSN for awhile but I'm still alive, and I can help you with what little I can with those maps when you need me.

[Sushi_CW]

Ok, I've implimented your suggestions into the code. I haven't had a chance to try it with a human player but it looks like it makes defenders more able to switch from defence to attack. Good stuff.

 

Likewise, I've only tried it against bots, but I think I like it. It makes the combat feel smoother.

[razorace]

I'm just a little worried ya know. Especially with Ace leaving the project soon, who's gonna take over the programming part?

 

Btw IMHO why bother about a version 0.1.0? Why don't we just shoot up R1 (which stands for Release 1)? Sounds better too, and that's what Masters of the Force was released with . And anyway by the time 0.1.0 is released (which probably is a "when it's done" release date), we'd have accomplished a LOT...

I've been considering the same thing. If this next release is really going to be the "big" one, may as well just call it 1.0.0.

[Maxstate]

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?p=2225259#

 

Saber style bonus suggestion thread.

[JRHockney*]

Time for another idea. I've been thinking about how we can bring conversation disarms back into the game in a useful fashion. If any of you think they happen enough and think any boost to this technique is "not needed," let me ask you this: When was the last time you did one in active combat against a non noob for anything other than demonstration purposes?.....yeah thats what I thought! LOL I doubt half the people who play this mod even know what it is since its never used! The range of a heavy bounce to get "just right" on the mishap meter doenst happen very often and it more worth it just to make them full mishap maxout on them anyways. The sad thing is, its one of the coolest looking features we have!

 

I realised that heavybounces dont really happen in a visual fashion for an attack fake cash in move because the saberlock seems end in the same place all the time and just return to a return animation (since they didnt swing in the first place). And since you already did some damage to them, I say make the slowbounce the only thing that can come out of an attack fake and kick the only after option for bigger mishaps on it.

 

The attack parry on the other hand, doesn't do any damage until you do something to the slowbounce. Because of this and to make the heavy bounce more prevalent and associated with a move in particular, I say turn all the slowbounces in the slowbounce range into a heavy bounce. The only time you can slowbounce a person with an attackparry would be on the lowest level of the mishap bar where nothing can happen to them as far as kicking other than a backflip. The slowbounce should tell you that you can't do anything to them aside from a normal hit.

 

Well, if you able to follow what I just said, I think its a good idea. Though I'm still not sure if its as good of an idea as that attack parrying an attack fake idea I had to cause the heavy bounce (or max's idea to disarm), but Since that idea has fallen on the way side I think I'll give this a shot. I figured this could also be a skill added like I've suggested before, but I think it might just be better to my it apart of the game and to have the heavy bounce associated with a move.

[Sushi_CW]

I think that the problem of heavy bounces not happening enough is a result of the fact that the mishap bar jumps up and down so fast. When I've played on Meatgrinder, I've completely given up watching the mishap bar because it gets so unpredictable. The issue IMO is not about what triggers various bounces and conversions, but the rules that govern mishap bar ups and downs.

 

I think I've already said enough about the mishap bar on this thread though.

[JRHockney*]

I think that the problem of heavy bounces not happening enough is a result of the fact that the mishap bar jumps up and down so fast. When I've played on Meatgrinder, I've completely given up watching the mishap bar because it gets so unpredictable. The issue IMO is not about what triggers various bounces and conversions, but the rules that govern mishap bar ups and downs.

 

That and the heavy bounce range isn't big enough. Another reason I wanted the heavybounces to fill up the slowbounce part of the meter is that if you get parried and kicked at heavybounce level, you get knocked down, which is usually better than getting disarmed because you can just jump away and press 1 if your at all ready for it (as most vets are). If we do increase the heavybounce range, I think we should also make a greater intervel of time before you can get your saber backand maybe even a quick window of force vulnerability if you get conversioned (and only conversioned). That should give enough incentive to use it. Right now Its easier to get a maxout on them rather than even trying this.

[JRHockney*]

Heck, maybe we should just try making getting hit after a conversion where you dont have your saber just instantly kill you just to see if it makes it used more or not! If its too used, people will at least learn what it is and we can just nerf the effect to maybe what I suggested above. Either way, this will make for some AWSOME looking kills. Just imagine visually knocking the saber right out of your opponents hand and chopping of his head!

[Maxstate]

*head assplode*

 

Naw I understood that

Whatever you guys do, just give people more options and maximize the usability and simplicity of it.

 

Ace, you still making Long Dfa's knockdown? And are you still adding a bit more damage to the regular ones?