shaded6 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 i think a lot about the concept of the force and how people take it into aspect, you know. i mean, i have come to a conclusion that no one Jedi or Sith has ever accomplished: i considered my talents. when conversion to the dark side happens it seems for a numerous reasons. power, control and so on. but why not come to a conclusion to learn the paths of both the light side of the force and the dark? where is this source of power coming from when it is on that person to decide what he wants? its a complex thing i get into from time to time because i am writing a script on many things to do with the galaxy and justice and different paths. i have enough ideas and when i get the chance to like sit this through, i mean, lol, lets get into it. i'll edit tommorrow, well, today, its 2:49am here in florida, but i mean i have thought of a lot of the subject. lol i may be a star wars buff, but i am not a trekki... seth p.s isnt self control over yourself power in itself? plus by experience we learn to control our emotions, doesnt that mean we have the power to use them? Edit: everytime i think of the darkside i am compelled to convert..... a little Sith in me.... seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHawke Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Hello shaded6, welcome to the forums. Just so you know you can edit your posts to add something later, try not to double post, thanks. I did this for you this time. Edit: We need more Sith around here too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 sorry....my girl just reminded me. lol. thanks. seth Edit: yeah what can i say about the dark side....man, i feel it in my bones.... "sigh" i am going to find the quote from episode 3 when palpetine is talking with anakin and trying to convert him. its a good quote. "anakin, if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects; not just the dogmatic, narrow veiw of the Jedi. if you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger veiw of the force." Darth Sidious, aka, Chancellor Palpetine seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 See, the Sith won't mind if you are learning some Jedi arts, but the Jedis, on the other hand... Now granted the Siths are more self-serving, but seriously before the "rule of the two" BS the Sith are still doing quite well actually... Sure, there are many deaths, but its all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 i want to succeed where most of the other Sith failed. why follow a path that you are rejected from, when power is just the ability to control yourself and what you are capable of? come to that conclusion and you Truely know the force, both good and evil. seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Shaded, I hate to point this out but control of your emotions is what Jedi do, Jedi are also the only ones with access to the Unifying Force. In order to fall to the dark side you have to let your emotions rule you. The dark side is a corruption of the Force because it is about people seeking to control it rather than flow with it. Every fallen Jedi ever has been seeking a "greater truth" Why not start down the dark path? For the same reason you don't start smoking. It's a bad idea. "Once you star down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny." Only the Sith covert power and that power always destroys them, utterly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 it doesnt have to destroy them, if they realize that it can and doesnt have to. who says when you walk towards the dark side, that it has to consume you, when first being a Jedi, nothing consumed you, but the force? the force is all this person might have ever known: so what is the beginning of learning it? what is the first lesson Jedi teach you when you are old enough to understand it? seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 They teach you to open yourself to the Force and to control your emotions, so the movies tell us. The Force does not consume a Jedi because it flows through them and they through it, they do not fight it, because the power of the Force flows through them it doesn't destroy them. A Sith tries to hold corrupted Force power within themselves, that is why they are corrupted and consumed. it doesnt have to destroy them, if they realize that it can and doesnt have to. who says when you walk towards the dark side, that it has to consume you, when first being a Jedi, nothing consumed you, but the force? Every Sith has been consumed by the dark side. when Ulic Qel-droma fell he was so corrupted he killed his own brother, one of the people he loved most in the galexey. When Revan fell he destryed the worlds he had sworn to protect. When Anakin fell he killed all the Jedi, even the younglings. A Jedi you walks they dark path is consumed and reborn as a twisted and perverted version of their former selves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 if the force flows through you in a way arent you letting it consume you in all that you already are? and if the Sith who were so intangled with the dark side of the force had learned the force for what it was, it wouldnt be that way. its not my fault they lost control and fell into the nature and not the teaching... principal is a principal all in its own. you have to be able to know what your getting into to know what your doing, and when you realize the Truth in that, you can walk with your head a little lighter, knowing, that you know. seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Learned the Force for what it was? The Force is the heart beat of the universe, the guiding hand of destiny, God, if you like. As I said the Jedi let the Force flow through them, i.e. in and then out and onwards, so they aren't consumed. The Sith are consumed because they hold they dark side within themselves whereas the Jedi exist within the Force, as do all things. As I also ssaid the drak side is a corruption of the true Force used by the Jedi, that is why Anakin restored balance when he killed the last Sith. There is only the Force and the dark side, the dark side is a corruption of the Force. The Jedi always win because ultimately that is the will of the Force. Of course the Force is a creation of George Lucas so this is all a bit moot, in the litteral sense since no one can actually use the Force. A Jedi brings balance to the Force, a Sith brings destruction, worse he does it all for his own ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 i agree, lol, lucas does have a good thing going though...lol but yeah, i aggree and understand what you are saying, trust me, this is why i want to accomplish something different. its not about the light side or the dark side, its about the force. i aggree also that the Sith usually lose their mind and will and emotions, but it does NOT have to be this way. how do you believe in the balance of the force and yet dont seek to find it? its not on one person to bring balance, Darth Sidius is dead by his apprentices redemption and conviction, but does this end the line of the Sith? and for that Sith to bring destruction is for him to lose control over how he lets it destroy him. the balance relies on us. no one else. and yet no one has yet to ever sought it for that. we believe we are "balanced" and if we truely were we wouldnt of converted to the dark side like a lot of Jedi. so what converts a Jedi if he is looking for balance of the force and was trained to keep it? seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 A jedi who falls to the dark side has lost his balance. The balance of the Force does not rely on us. Take away all of us and the Force would be in perfect balance. We create the imbalance by trying to influence the Force, to bend it to our will. There is no balance between the Force and the dark side. There is only the Force, the dark side is within you, an attempt to twist the Force, to bend it to your will. Such a desire is fueled by negative emotions, there is no real power in the dark side. What you seek is not new and you won't find what you're looking for between light and dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 15, 2006 Author Share Posted January 15, 2006 why? because no one else has found it? because it isnt known to exist it doesnt? what is balance? understanding of all aspects, on a certain subject of intrest. passion is fueled by what you want most: power is gaining the knowledge to handle it for what it is when you experience it. why is there in-balance between the force if no one takes that mentality to stop it? who can influence what they are influenced by? if they couldnt, no Jedi or Sith would have any power. seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkonium Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Here's my opinion on the Balance of the Force. True Balance is an equilibrium between good and evil, not the supremacy of good, and as such, the Jedi are the cause of the imbalance in the Force, and said imbalance was leaning toward the light, as opposed to the dark, as the Jedi would believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 15, 2006 Author Share Posted January 15, 2006 both the Jedi and the Sith can be the in-balance, not one or the other. this is why it relies on "me" to find the truth to end this in-balance, for myself, and no one else. by what the Jedi believe and what the Sith believe, they find their power in that cause, so they in-balance themselves, when the Jedi, i believe, are the only ones who seek to know the TRUE balance of the force. just because the Sith oppose this balance and hate the Jedi, for whatever reason they hate the Jedi, doesnt mean that a True Sith cant obtain that balance of the force, in its intirety, for himself, and no one else. this is why the balance relies on him, not his order or his code. though, code is good to live by, without it we have no idea of what we want to do with ourselves and the intrest that involve both codes, but what we do with those codes, and how we "understand" them is totally different: in how they infect us. seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Alkonium, I might be inclined to agree with you except that Lucas has spoken and the Sith are the imbalance. The dark side has been shown to be a twisting of the true nature of the Force. Ask yourself this, are the Jedi really a Force for good or are they merely a regulator? The Jedi help one person and that must diminish another person. By removing eccessive "evil," for lack of a better word, they remove the great imbalances because the nature of the universe dictates that for every fortunate person there must be someone unfortunate. The problem with the Sith is that they do not serve others, they amasse massive power to themselves. Lokk at the Republic versus the Empire, the Republic wasn't good rather it was normal, most people could go about their dayly lives. When Palpatine rose to power the Jedi were destroyed Billions apon Billions were killed or enslaved to the benefit of the few. Throughout history evil has been what upsets us or the natural order and good is when the natural order is restored. Anyone who says they are equel is missing the fundamentals of human understanding. Balance is what is good, imbalance is what is bad. That is why we think of good as the natural state. Good is our way or articulating our natural state. Its not a thing with an opposite like hot and cold, its an articulation of the satisfaction we feel when things are in balance. Is it intrinsicly bad when someone dies? No, it is part of the natural order. Is it bad when someone is murdered? Yes, because it upsets the natural order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 "good is a point of veiw, anakin. the Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost everyway, including their quest for greater power." Darth Sidious "the Sith rely on their passion for their strength; they think inwards, only about themselves." Anakin Skywalker "and the Jedi dont?" Darth Sidious "the Jedi are selfless, they only care about others." Anakin Skywalker "The Sith Code." Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. "The Jedi Code." There is no emotion; there is peace. There is no ignorance; there is knowledge. There is no passion; there is serenity. There is no chaos; there is harmony. There is no death; there is the Force. what can we take from both these point of veiws? when the Sith declare that they are passionate towards the force and let it set them free, and the Jedi simply embrace the force for what it is and is set free, where is the difference? on the individual. and the in-balance is on the individual, not the path. granted, the Sith, atleast most, are consumed by the dark side, for evil, but how can i see evil from their code when it promises understanding on a different concept the Jedi refuse to try and understand because from their own point of veiw, what opposses their way and understanding of the force? when the Jedi live by a selfless code towards the good that can come from the force, does it mean that it is the ultimate balance, the access to true power? more then likely, because even i understand that. but this doesnt mean there is no power in the Sith. how is anyone to know the way of the Sith by how the Sith are considered, even in Truth of how most of them are, does that matter when someone doesnt have to walk down the path of evil to attain power if they live strictly by that code when it doesnt promote evil? i dont think i can handle this power, i can feel it taking over. i am starting to contemplate, i am starting to feel the in-balance in myself, and i am affraid it is taking over, for the Sith.....but i want to serve the Truth and the balance in the peace i used to know, to control my emotions but use them. breaking forth towards enlightenment is a new path, because the process of re-birth is pain all over again, to access this greater knowlege and power. seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 The gretest power comes from the rejection of power. Yes the Sith have power but its no type of power I want. Look at the Sith code, its deceptive. "Peace is a lie" Does this not bother you? The opposite of peace is conflict, WAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 it does bother me because i have seen this in all the Sith i have researched. i hate vanity. i am compelled to the Sith for their passion for power, i am compelled to the Jedi for their code, but these compulsions to just take a lightsabre and destroy **** is overwhelming, theoretically, pushes the limit even closer. i think i have to realize the Truth in this, that there is no balance between the two, because the force should be the balance. seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 "Peace is a lie, there is only passion. " Well, actually this line IS basically the whole Sih Code... 1) It is the rejection of the Jedi Code, especially to those complicated rules they have that is worth not much more than a huge pile of hot Bantha Poodoo. 2) It points towards the Sith's way, survival of the fittest, strongest, luckiest(?). 3) It supports emothion over doctine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 for the Sith, survival is necessary to attain power. the Jedi are always in the way of their plans because most Sith are so consumed that they dont think about anything but themselves, what they want, and what they are going to do about it; whether they understand the Jedi will resist or not. strength can be anyones weakness if you dont understand what you are capable of, capable of becoming, capable of what you are doing, and capable of knowing where you want to go with what your capable of. because you hold yourself back, you can lose your life. the Sith embrace what they want and accept what they are capable of, putting an in-balance in the force for evil. they arent lucky to walk away from a Jedi, if they were, they would be greatful enough to not have to face one; but because they hate the Jedi, they pretty much instigate the aggressive negotiations for their own, many reasons. "the Jedi are relentless." Darth Sidious whose to say that the Sith arent? seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarNProgress Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Ah, BattleDog, but the Sith DO serve others. Where does their strength come from? Darwin couldn't put it any better, survival of the fittest. By eliminating the weak and unfit, they then make them stronger. If you were at possibility to be killed if you were weak, wouldn't this push you to have the edge? True strength isn't to protect the weak; By protecting, you only shelter them. In otherwords, you weaken them. Supposedly, every action sends an echo through the Force. Now, this action usually breeds into a negative effect on the helped. For instance, you stumble upon someone on a street in a bad neighborhood. Rather than go about your merry way, you decide to give them $20. They are later killed for this unearned money because they didn't gain the reward from the journey to be deserving. Let's take a look at something from Nar Shaddaa. You decide to be a good sumaritan and give the Ebon Hawk to it's rightful owner. What happens to him? He is ambushed by waiting assassins that are looking for you. Your "good" deed doesn't sound so good anymore, does it? By being slightly cold, while you do continue his misfortune with his loss, you didn't send him to his death like a Jedi would, knowingly or not. True strength doesn't come from protecting, it comes from allowing someone to fight their own battles. The Jedi protected the Republic against the Sith. What happened once they were no more? The Republic began to crumble, untested. Because of this lack of testing, they weren't defined by war. They weren't forced to deserve what they had. Anyways, on to your latest post, Shaded. Survival is neccessary for the Jedi to attain power, as well. If the Jedi all disappear, they have no strength. Also, true strength is never a weakness. The only weakness for strength is when it comes unearned. If you ask me, the Jedi and Sith are equal in their own corruptions, thus as a whole bringing a balance to the Force. How many times have you seen Obi Wan kill or attempt to kill a Sith Lord? Anakin? Yoda? According to the Jedi code, there shouldn't be ANY killing. They should be imprisoned, or exiled, their connection to the Force cut off. Both sides think the other to be the corruption, and theirs the only that should be. Just because the Sith don't bow down to everyone doesn't mean they are weak or evil. And just because the Jedi protect the innocent, as stated above, doesn't mean they are strengthening them, but rather turning them into a victim waiting to happen. Both sides are overrated. I think I'd pull a Revan and listen to myself, rather than teachings or code. P.S., Sorry for the ridiculously long post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 who is more capable of converting to the dark side of the force? and strength can be your weakness if you dont fully embrace that strength you know you have; for whatever reason. its a balance within yourself, not the teaching or the teacher, for both the Jedi and the Sith. "In my experience, there's no such thing as luck." —Obi-Wan Kenobi i myself dont understand why most Sith become ruthlessly evil, in a way i do understand, it takes a lot of emotion to cross over to a more sinister way of thinking and living, one that not only throws everything off balance in the force, but also in himself. this doesnt mean he doesnt know what he is capable of, if he didnt know what he was capable of he wouldnt be where he is, or even know the force; the light or the dark. and i already know that just because you let your emotions use you and guide your actions, doesnt mean you are powerful. power relies on knowing what it is and how to attain it and use it; either for good or evil, doesnt really matter. and if they truely knew the ways of the force, and truely understood what it was, they wouldnt be against the ways of the Jedi. so again, why is it the Sith hate the Jedi and seek only to totally dominate their own desire? Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. does anyone truely know what they are trying to say about their code? has anyone seen the consumption within just their code? "I." and because i also see this, i can understand, because it relies on them to gain this power they seek, whether it is TRUE power or not, most of them, gain some power and control it within themselves. seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarNProgress Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 so again, why is it the Sith hate the Jedi and seek only to totally dominate their own desire? Looks like to me someone needs to play more TSL . Anyways, the Jedi cast out, rather than attempt to understand, the first Sith Lords. Nowadays it's really not even about what it started. I is used because they want to have the power, not you. I don't understand how everyone is going off saying that there's an imbalance if you're Sith. Some people are naturally crueller and more sinister than others, so if they were to put that away and become good against their own natural will, that would be an imbalance. Besides, I don't see how anyone could see how it really makes a difference. That's like me trying to say that just because I'm taught different than you means I'm better than you, while you learn just as fast as I do, regardless the method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 "I is used because they want to have the power, not you." yeah, it is me who wants this power, theoretically. "so again, why is it the Sith hate the Jedi and seek only to totally dominate their own desire?" its not only in the game that the Sith are who they are. and if you read everything else i have been writing in this forum you will see that i agree the Sith dont have to be the imbalance. or in any other forum containing what i think the True Sith are capable of. but, there are NO Sith who works for the Jedi council, so reguardless of whether they are evil or not, exiled or not; they have to rely on themselves for balance, power, control, influence: of the force, and everything else they do. it does matter on the teaching, because whether they have it or not depends on what they are doing with it to begin with, just depends on which teaching and how the student improves himself by learning this teaching for himself. redemption is coming to a conclusion that you were wrong and wanted to be redeemed, sincerely. just because a Sith turns back to good doesnt mean he will be imbalanced, Darth Vader did it and it served him immortality, but i see what your saying with that: you cant instantly change your ways of thinking for no reason and expect acceptance from a Jedi who thinks differently, 1, 2, being you were probably consumed by the dark side to begin with makes a big difference in how you already had been thinking for years when you served the Sith, not only in your progress for power, but in their cause, making it an evil one. you cant say destroying whole worlds isnt evil, killing innocent people, even Jedi, isnt evil, or even having to die yourself isnt evil, especially when you dont have to "die." and if you have that mentaility to destroy worlds, kill innocent people, and progress for ultimate power, for whatever reason; you cant expect the Jedi to try and show you the Truth in the force when you arent willing to accept it, even, hate it....because it is balance. "Only Sith deal in absolutes" -Obi-Wan and whatever other ambition that gives him the passion he has. i am full of passion, i just think things through to gain what i want in that passion. lol. want to go into aggressive negotiations? i wont think i'll win, because i could lose, but i wont think i'll lose, so that i can win. seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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