how to turn the handmaiden to the dark side

[RedHawke]

I'll do my best to make sure of it.

No you really haven't Shem, this is the problem I see here. (Including the above attempt earlier to post someones real name, and try to tell them they have no life. Bad form Shem!)

 

As you go on you are coming off more and more badly. Achilles confidence in his findings, and his posts here to you, seem to have you bound and determined to attempt to undermine what he has done or somehow you now need to prove him wrong on something that Achilles has done in his free time mind you, to try and help people out in the community with the influence aspect of the game.

 

Also you seem unwilling or unable to recognise what Achilles intentions with his guide was, he wasn't attempting to circumvent the influence system, see his guide is based on the assumption that you would want to play in-character with your PC's LS or DS alignment, hence your dialog responses would be the appropriate ones, and limited accordingly.

 

My honest suggestion to you is to make up an influence guide of your own and post it here like Achilles did, while his Influence guide focuses on playing in-character, yours would be different in that you are including possible influence or dialog exploits, this doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

 

But to quote Grand Moff Tarkin... "This bickering is pointless!"

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Shem]

No you really haven't Shem, this is the problem I see here. (Including the above attempt earlier to post someones real name, and try to tell them they have no life. Bad form Shem!)

I felt that was pervoked and that I had to defend my self. When I said I had to go, he said quote...

 

How convenient. I, for one, am eagerly awaiting your response.

 

I felt like he was accusing me of running away when I really had to go.

 

Mod Edit: So you go and resort to a violation of privacy and a personal attack, because of this? Can you honestly tell me that what you think was said to you warranted what you did? I'm sorry, but no post warrants such a response.

 

Bottom line, You took offence far too easily, and really took offence at nothing. You need to grow some thicker skin, and think twice before you post. If you find a post offensive then you need to report that post instead and let cooler heads prevail (Click on the little yellow dot below the posters name box on the post, and give the reason in the box.), but please refrain from replying with any form of personal attack. No excuse for them is acceptable.

 

Deal strictly with the subject matter at hand and not the other poster, you will go further that way. -RH

 

As you go on you are coming off more and more badly. Achilles confidence in his findings, and his posts here to you, seem to have you bound and determined to attempt to undermine what he has done or somehow you now need to prove him wrong on something that Achilles has done in his free time mind you, to try and help people out in the community with the influence aspect of the game.

 

And I try to help the community. But when I know from my personal experience that what I've done is correct, and get attacked for being wrong. How would you feel if this happen to you? All I asked him to do is try it the way I have provided. That's all and I know it will have the results that I have given. I don't feel a need to prove Achilles wrong. I feel a need to prove that my way is right and that others will know it's right and will know it will work the way I have shown it.

 

My honest suggestion to you is to make up an influence guide of your own and post it here like Achilles did, while his Influence guide focuses on playing in-character, yours would be different in that you are including possible influence or dialog exploits, this doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

Personally I really don't have that kind of time. My wife would kill me for being on the computer that much more than I already am. However, just because I didn't make a guide, doesn't mean I can't help others out with solutions of influence and I will not say something I know isn't true. And just because Achilles made a guide (and a good one at that), doesn't give him more authority than me. If you really knew me, you would know my intentions.

[Achilles]

First, some background:

 

handmaiden.dlg is the dialog file that contains a majority of the entries and responses for the conversations that take place between The Exile and Handmaiden while on board the Ebon Hawk. Holorec.dlg also contains a few influence related-dialogs, but even though you are on the Ebon Hawk the game considers you to be on Coruscant. Visasmarr.dlg also has a few lines, but they are only influence decreases, so we won't consider them too much here.

 

a_influence_inc is the script that is resposible for increasing influence with each of your party NPCs. In order for this script to work, it needs two parameters (which are both provided in the dialog files). The first parameter indicates who

 

the influence shift effects (4=handmaiden) and the second indicates how much influence is gained. The devs originally intended to have small, medium, and large influence shifts, however it appears that they ran out of time, so they set all three increments to 8.

 

You can verify this by opening a_influence_inc yourself using KotOR Tool, or by looking at this screenshot.

 

As you can see, influence can only be shifted in increments of 8. There is a bug in the Nar Shaddaa Refugee Quad that allows influence to be shifted by smaller increments, but no where is it shifted by larger increments. Please keep in mind that this is the only script that allows influence to be increased.

 

Ok, this is a condensed version of what I did for the guide (and the resulting walkthough). These results can be duplicated 100% by any of you. The tools aren't that difficult to use and I've done most of the hard work for you, so if you want to verify any of this, it shouldn't take you that long.

 

1st, open up FindREFs and search for a_influence_inc in TSL. You should get quite a few results, but we're only interested in those for Handmaiden while she's on the Ebon Hawk, so we only need to focus on any hits for handmaiden.dlg and holorec.dlg. Here's a screenshot of what you get:

 

FindREFs results

 

As you can see, there are 8 entries (e___) and 3 replies (r___) for handmaiden.dlg and 3 for holorec.dlg (not shown).

 

Please note that in one instance, the same entry is used twice (the 1st and 2nd dueling rounds), so you should count e267 twice (for a total of 12 entries).

 

Next, open up DLGEditor and use it to open up either of the .dlg files. You can use View>Go To Index to find each of the specific dialog entries. I've also provided the screenshots for you:

 

Holorec.dlg

 

All three of these influence shifts require that you're kind to Handmaiden after she joins you on the Ebon Hawk. Not hard to do, but probably not your first instinct if you're playing DS.

r122

r132

r133

 

 

Handmaiden.dlg

 

e108 This is where Handmaiden vows to fight with you.

e124 This fires after The Exile and Handmaiden discuss Atris and she indicates that she's beginning to trust you.

e184 This is one that takes place while she is becoming a Jedi, specifically where she is breaking her oath to Atris. This is only available if you're already over 90%.

e267 This is the influence shift that you get after beating Handmaiden in the 1st and 2nd duels. Note this only fires if you beat her and only immediately after the fight is over.

e290 This is the influence shift that you get after beating Handmaiden in the 3rd duel.

e299 This only comes into play if you violate the conditions of the duel and can convince Handmaiden that you are justified for doing so. Please note that if you use this option, it replaces one of the influcence shifts that you gain for the corresponding duel.

 

These are entries that were cut from the game. They were originally intended to be used after the medbay scene after Visas attacks you on the Ebon Hawk, however that dialog was moved to Visasmarr.dlg. Since the entries in visasmarr.dlg are only influence decreases, I won't include them here.

r387

r388

 

These are all influence shifts that occur when you respond to her question about why you returned to face the Jedi Counsel. As you can see, you have to work pretty hard to get this one wrong.

e270

e271

r399

 

 

So to summarize, there are only a handful of influence increase opportunities with Handmaiden while onboard the Ebon Hawk. e184 is only available after you've begun to train Handmaiden, so it can't be considered here (since you have to have 90% to even unlock it). This means that 1 of the 12 can't be used to get to 90%. 2 of the remaining 11 were cut so that leaves 9. 3 of those are all attached to the same conversation and can't be used cumulatively, that means 2 of them don't count which leaves you with 7. 1 of those 7 can be used in place of one of the duels, so really you only have 6 (3 duels, the vow, the conversation about Atris, and her questions about why you went back to face the Counsel).

 

5*8=48 and 50+48=98, but don't forget that if you're playing DS, you you're going to take a few hits throughout the game (up to -16 in holorec.dlg and -8 in visasmarr.dlg), with will put you around 74 or 82 depending on how you play it.

 

In other words, Shem may have an alternative method for getting to 90 (or above), however the information thus far has been erroneous (you do not get 16 points for any of the 3 duels, as he stated in previous posts) and incomplete (his input is not very specific or detailed). Any specific documentation that can be verified by some method other than "because I said so" or "as soon as someone else does it and posts that they did it" will be included in my guide with full credit given.

[Shem]

In other words, Shem may have an alternative method for getting to 90 (or above), however the information thus far has been erroneous (you do not get 16 points during any of the duels, as he stated in previous posts) or incomplete (his input is not very specific or detailed). Any specific documentation that can be verified by some method other than "because I said so" or "as soon as someone else does it and posts that they did it" will be included in my guide with full credit given.

I'm going to ask politley. Would you just please play a game where you leave on the Ebon Hawk from the Polar Region? Have the Handmaiden join your party and do what I have asked in my summary. You can get 16 points in two of your duels with the Handmaiden. I checked three times in the last 24 hours just to make sure it was correct. I wouldn't just say this.

 

Why try to deceive people? I don't get any pleasure in it. I only get pleasure in seeing people helped out. I tried to see if there was something wrong in my method and I know it isn't a fluke when the same results happen time and time again. Would you please play it the game itself to see? I promise if you do this it will work. It may not add up to you, but I know it will. It may even open your eyes to something you didn't realize was there in the scripts.

 

Listen, maybe something doesn't show up in the scripts you have provided, because there are other times in the game where huge influence gains of over eight can happened. The first one that come off the top of my head is with Mira when getting influence over her to train her as a Jedi and talking about Nar Shaddaa. You can also do that with the Disciple also.

[Achilles]

I'm going to ask politley. Would you just please play a game where you leave on the Ebon Hawk from the Polar Region? Have the Handmaiden join your party and do what I have asked in my summary. You can get 16 points in two of your duels with the Handmaiden. I checked three times in the last 24 hours just to make sure it was correct. I wouldn't just say this.

 

Why try to deceive people? I don't get any pleasure in it. I only get pleasure in seeing people helped out. I tried to see if there was something wrong in my method and I know it isn't a fluke when the same results happen time and time again. Would you please play it the game itself to see? I promise if you do this it will work. It may not add up to you, but I know it will. It may even open your eyes to something you didn't realize was there in the scripts.

 

Listen, maybe something doesn't show up in the scripts you have provided, because there are other times in the game where huge influence gains of over eight can happened. The first one that come off the top of my head is with Mira when getting influence over her to train her as a Jedi and talking about Nar Shaddaa. You can also do that with the Disciple also.

I have already asked politely (multiple times) for you to just post some real proof. So far you have selected not to. Why do I have to do all the work here? If you have an alternative method that proves me wrong, I'd love to see it because it's probably going to result in a better guide. You're asking me to take your word over the actual game files, and I'm just not going to do that.

 

You claim to put a lot of work into verifying your information your end, however you seem to put very little effort into documenting it. You don't have time to devote to documentation, however you do have time to type hundreds and hundreds of words arguing about the subject? Please explain how that works.

 

You may have received 16 point after a duel for doing the duel and something else, but your guide is showing 16 points for the duel and then 8 points for the something else (for a total of 24). That's just not true, man. I don't know how to break that to you and it's seems obvious that repeating the message is not making any headway.

 

I have a walkthrough you can reference, I have a guide that you can download, and tonight I spent more than 2 hours putting together a post that spells it all out in small words. I'm not putting any further effort into this discussion. The work I've done will either stand or fall on it's own merit. If it stands, then you'll have to accept that. If it falls, then I'll have to accept that, and then I'll have to get busy revising my stuff.

 

So call it a win, or do whatever it takes to help you feel better, but I'm not rising to anymore challenges from you on this one. You've taken up enough of my time. I'm not devoting any more to another playthough.

[Shem]

I have already asked politely (multiple times) for you to just post some real proof. So far you have selected not to. Why do I have to do all the work here? If you have an alternative method that proves me wrong, I'd love to see it because it's probably going to result in a better guide. You're asking me to take your word over the actual game files, and I'm just not going to do that.

Honestly, I don't have scripting knowledge. I could never get those scripting tools to work for me. So I don't know what else to do except tell others to find out for themselves. I didn't ask you to look up the scripts and post them. I ask you to play the game itself. TSL is fun, you should enjoy playing while finding this out. And one thing I do know is that I can play the game and know what to do in situations to get the best results for my PC because of the amount of times I've played it and my goal on these boards is to pass off what I have learned.

 

You claim to put a lot of work into verifying your information your end, however you seem to put very little effort into documenting it. You don't have time to devote to documentation, however you do have time to type hundreds and hundreds of words arguing about the subject? Please explain how that works.

I posted the pictures because visuals seem to be more powerful. It's actual game evidence. Unfortunately when it says influence gained, it doesn't tell you how many points, so that's why I keep saying to check with KSA or with the Remote Tells Influence mod to find out.

 

You may have received 16 point after a duel for doing the duel and something else, but your guide is showing 16 points for the duel and then 8 points for the something else (for a total of 24).

What part are you talking about?

 

I'll quickly summarize my guide I posted to help clear this. You get 8 points for your first encounter with Brianna by welcoming her help, which you don't get any Light Side points. It doesn't display it, but you do get influence every time you do this in the game and as shown earlier and you are now at 58. You train with her the first time, and get 16 points. It's possible you get 8 points for the fight, and eight points for answering her question about going to trial. I can't see the script on how that works, I do know for a fact that you get 16 points if you answer her question the way I did in the pic provided, which moves you from 58 to 74 points.

 

You fight her a second time and just get 8 points, which puts you at 82. She doesn't ask you a question this time. That might be why you only get eight this time. Then I ask her about why she looks different than her sisters and from that result you learn about her mother, if you answer her the way I shown you, you will get 8 points influence, and a Dark Side shift. This puts you at 90. Then talk to Kreia and she tells you about Kae (Brianna's mother).

 

Then fight her a third time, and she tells you she can teach you no more, but you can offer to teach her things. From that you can convince her to betray her oath and become a Dark Jedi. This would result in 16 points influence if you are below 90, which you won't be if you follow my visuals. So it just bumps you to 100 because you can only get 10 points from that point. Again, could it be possible you get eight points of the duel and eight points for converting her to a Jedi for a total of 16?

 

The work I've done will either stand or fall on it's own merit. If it stands, then you'll have to accept that. If it falls, then I'll have to accept that, and then I'll have to get busy revising my stuff.

 

So call it a win, or do whatever it takes to help you feel better, but I'm not rising to anymore challenges from you on this one. You've taken up enough of my time. I'm not devoting any more to another playthough.

Calling it a win doesn't make me feel better. I really want you to find this out by just playing the game, which I hope will be fun. I didn't want you to look at the scripts and scratch your head trying to figure out how my way would work. I'm being honest here. I really know the way I have provided will work. And playing the game to find out should take less time then running through scripts trying to figure out how it works.

 

And I'm also going to just say I'm sorry for how I came off and hurting your feelings from the previous posts. That wasn't my goal. My goal was for you to see that I wasn't blowing smoke, that I was being serious. Again, I have checked this three times in the last 24 hours to make sure it works. If it didn't, I would have conceded a long time ago.

[darth traya_321]

chill out both of u!!!!! i only ask for information about this matter, i didn't ask for two members of starwarsknights.com to have challenges!! i just wanted info. on this and nothing more. if not i wouldn't post this

[darth traya_321]

i saw ur post and there it said that u have a guide line that u downloaded about how to train her. could u give me the favor of giving me the name of the website so i can download it. to like stop all this fuss

[Achilles]

Links to both are in my signature.

 

And drop the attitude...really.

[Jae Onasi]

@darth traya_321

It's obvious that both Achilles and Shem have spent a lot of time on influence and the Handmaiden (as you can see above), and sometimes people who've spent a great deal of time on any kind of project can become rather passionate about their work.

 

I hope this info was as useful for you as it was for me, and I hope you'll stay on the forum and enjoy the many other good things it has to offer, too.

[T7nowhere]

@ Shem, I did follow what you posted in post number 14 and it does work, but after Handmaiden joined I had 66 points just from the first holo recording dialog(I made LS dialog choices). This is before talking to her at all. I then cheated and gave my char 2,000,000 xp points and auto leveled to 50, after completing the 3 sparing matches I had 98 points of influence with her, I didn't talk to her about anything else.

 

Now when I chose DS dialog options in the holo recording scene I checked her influence and it was at 32 after sparing with her and talking to her and Kreia about her mother I only had 82 points of Influence, so at this point I would need to get 8 more points from some place else, meaning I would have to take her off the ship. So if I had only been nasty to her once in the Holo recording scene I would have only lost 8 points and I could have trained her as a darkjedi.

[Shem]

Now when I chose DS dialog options in the holo recording scene I checked her influence and it was at 32 after sparing with her and talking to her and Kreia about her mother I only had 82 points of Influence

Did you get influence with her when you talked to her about why she looks different than her sisters? You can talk to her and not get influence at all, but if you follow my pics I posted on what to say line by line, you get a Dark Side shift, and influence gained.

 

[Achilles]

Did you get that right after a sparring match? If so the influence gain was for the duel, not for the dialog. As I have pointed out before, there are no influence shifts in that conversation. You can reference post 28 for verification if you'd like.

[Shem]

Did you get that right after a sparring match? If so the influence gain was for the duel, not for the dialog. As I have pointed out before, there are no influence shifts in that conversation.

My previous post was about the conversation where you can ask the Handmaiden why she looks different from her sisters where you can get an influence gain and Dark Side points. The pics below show you step by step how to achieve it.

 

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/JediShemL/Handmaiden%20Progress/HandD41.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/JediShemL/Handmaiden%20Progress/HandD42.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/JediShemL/Handmaiden%20Progress/HandD43.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/JediShemL/Handmaiden%20Progress/HandD44.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/JediShemL/Handmaiden%20Progress/HandD45.jpg

 

[darth traya_321]

T7nowhere how did you auto level to 50. can u tell me pleazzzzzzzz

[tk102]

T7nowhere how did you auto level to 50. can u tell me pleazzzzzzzz

You can grant yourself experience points with KSE http://www.starwarsknights.com/tools.php

or use the cheat code addexp 2000000

[Achilles]

My previous post was about the conversation where you can ask the Handmaiden why she looks different from her sisters where you can get an influence gain and Dark Side points. The pics below show you step by step how to achieve it.

 

<snip>

 

What would be helpful is something showing that an influence shift actually took place (like a screenshot from DLGEdit, for example) *shakes head*. I suspect that this conversation ties in with e108. Of course, you showing it would be a lot more helpful. So much for my efforts not to do your legwork for you

[Shem]

What would be helpful is something showing that an influence shift actually took place (like a screenshot from DLGEdit, for example) *shakes head*. I suspect that this conversation ties in with e108. Of course, you showing it would be a lot more helpful. So much for my efforts not to do your legwork for you

I'm doing the best I can to show you how to do it. I've given the steps you take by what dialogue choices you have use. This time I provided a pic showing an influence increase along with Dark Side points given. All you have to do is play the game in that situation, doing the dialogue choices I've shown you to verify it.

[Jeff]

@ Shem, I did follow what you posted in post number 14 and it does work, but after Handmaiden joined I had 66 points just from the first holo recording dialog(I made LS dialog choices). This is before talking to her at all. I then cheated and gave my char 2,000,000 xp points and auto leveled to 50, after completing the 3 sparing matches I had 98 points of influence with her, I didn't talk to her about anything else.

 

Now when I chose DS dialog options in the holo recording scene I checked her influence and it was at 32 after sparing with her and talking to her and Kreia about her mother I only had 82 points of Influence, so at this point I would need to get 8 more points from some place else, meaning I would have to take her off the ship. So if I had only been nasty to her once in the Holo recording scene I would have only lost 8 points and I could have trained her as a darkjedi.

This is basically how it went for me too, though I didn't have to take her off the ship since I only lost 8 points in the Holo recording scene. Just to give another verification...

[Shem]

This is basically how it went for me too, though I didn't have to take her off the ship since I only lost 8 points in the Holo recording scene. Just to give another verification...

Thanks for testing it out. I appreciate getting verifications about my methods.

[Achilles]

Wow, talk about embarrassing. I just went back to review my DS walkthough and it looks like I not only knew about the "asking about her sisters" influence increase but included it in my walkthough. Looks like I don't need verification on that shift after all (since I already did it myself). Shem takes the point on that one. My apologies for any confusion.

 

Still appears that my walkthrough still offers the fastest DS progression for Handmaiden though.

 

Going back to post #14 (since it seems to be the one everyone is working from). I'm sure that I asked this already, but bear with me:

 

The Handmaiden does start off with 50, correct. Your first influence chance happens when she reveals herself on the Ebon Hawk. You tell her you welcome her aboard and that you can forget Atton and she thanks you. It never shows it, but you get 8 points influence. There, now you have her at 58 and the beauty of this is no Light Side shift.

With you so far.

 

When you ask her to train with you and after the first fight, you get 16 points influence and then your influence is now at 74.

8 from the duel and???

 

Where do the other 8 come from? Asking about Atris like my walkthrough recommends? Or asking about her appearance? I know you've probably mentioned somewhere before but the varying responses are difficult to keep track of and the specifics aren't mentioned here.

 

If it's the appearance, why would you use that here when doing so cuts you off from the Atris conversation? Seems to me that you would want to take advantage of it's availablity here and then use the appearance conversation to boost right to 82. But that's just me...

 

So, 74 but we aren't quite clear on why (in your progression). Done and done.

 

Shem's way = 74. Achilles' way = 82.

 

You need to be at level 14 to do the next fight. Then when you do that next one, you get 8 points to influence, which puts you at 82.

Correct...well kinda. Don't forget that you probably would have encountered Visas by now and you would have taken a hit. It doesn't appear that T7nowhere or Darth Moeller took that into account when the tested it (with all due respect to both). So using your progression, we'd be back to 74 here, but with mine, we'd be back to 82.

 

Also, with my walkthrough, Handmaiden brings up the Jedi Counsel with boosts you up to 90. I didn't see you mention that at all here.

 

Shem's way = 82 (but not really; it should still be 74). Achilles' way = 90 (98 if I don't count the hit after Visas like Shem did).

 

Then you need to be at level 18 for the final fight. After you complete that fight, you get 16 points influence, which puts you at 98.

Again with the mysterious 16. As with the first example, I'm not sure where that 2nd bump comes from, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're referencing the boost you get when Handmaiden renounces Atris. Fair enough?

 

Well here's the rub: You only get the other 8 points if you have >90. Since your walkthrough doesn't account for Visas, your progression implies that you'd get them, but playing a real game, you'd only be at 82 after the duel. The other 8 wouldn't be available to you yet. T7nowhere and Darth Moeller didn't catch this because they tested this progression using cheats and therefore didn't have to encounter Visas or take the hit (at least I'm safe in assuming this is the case. My apologies to both if I'm assuming incorrectly).

 

Shem's way = 82. Achilles' way = 100

 

And notice that I didn't even put in about asking the Handmaiden about her mother and that gets you 8 points influence, which leads her to become a Jedi after you find out that information and talking to Kreia about it.

Well buddy, it looks like you should go back and do that because your "guide" doesn't work without it. Someone taking note of how much better your way is probably ought to have the benefit of at least being able to duplicate what you did. Add this to your progression and you'll truly have an alternate means to get there. Since it doesn't appear to meet the assumptions of my walkthough though, I hope you'll understand if I don't replace my work with yours.

 

So to summarize - About the thing with Handmaiden's appearance: you were right. I was wrong. I'm sorry.

 

As for the rest, you still have some work to do.

[darth traya_321]

tk102, how do you put the 2000000exp? do you have to put it when u save a game? now i know this is a dumb question but i just want to know.

[tk102]

You'll have to first enable cheats in your game (see http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=144049 ) and then you'll press the ~ key while in the game. The cheat console is invisible in TSL so type the letters carefully: addexp 20000000 and press Enter. If you don't want to type this, you can use the Preppie Cheat Console Utility or you can just use the KotOR Savegame Editor outside of the game.

[JediMaster12]

I'm working through my first DS game in TSL as a male. I think I'll try it with Achilles' way for now. Part of it has to do with my guilt trip seeing that I try to play dark and end up lightside. The guide keeps me focused on my goal. Thanks for the help Achilles.

[darth traya_321]

but i don't have it for the pc, i have it for the xbox. can you tell how to do it for the xbox