The Ebon Hawk; whose ship is it really? SPOILERS!!

[Beast-Thrasher]

There is no indication at all, anywhere that suggests Atris leaked the jedi meeting on Kataar, or that she was even attempting to draw the enemy out at that time.

 

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but your wrong. If you go to the official TSL site then fo to game info then chronicles and then part 13 you will read this....

 

One of the Order, JEDI MASTER ATRIS, gives in to her frustration and the collapse of the Jedi Order, and begins to delve into Sith holocrons to attempt to determine the nature of the threat facing the Jedi. Attempting to summon the remaining Jedi she has kept contact with, Atris attempts to call a Jedi Conclave under the strict agreement of secrecy on a Midrim world. She struggles to comprehend her actions as the Conclave is interrupted when every single Jedi attending vanishes without a trace. It is later discovered that all of them were savagely culled by Dark Side Sith Assassins under the command of DARTH NIHILUS. Unknown to the rest of the Jedi, Atris secretly leaked knowledge of the Jedi attending the Conclave in the hopes that the enemy would reveal themselves. However, the results were worse than Atris could have possibly imagined.

 

voila.

[Melly]

Originally Posted by shinyjedi

There is no indication at all, anywhere that suggests Atris leaked the jedi meeting on Kataar, or that she was even attempting to draw the enemy out at that time.

 

And also this from the .tlk files:

Atris: {Contemptuous}I did not flee. I did what was necessary to fight the Sith - and preserve the last of the Jedi. {A little distant, like watching a scene far away} Yes... I sensed what would happen on Katarr. It was I who leaked knowledge of its presence in the hopes of drawing the Sith out. I will not deceive you... I knew what could happen there, but it had to be done to make the Sith reveal themselves. But I did not know the extent of their power - and what that meant for the Jedi. I will not underestimate them again.

[shinyjedi]

I will confess that I haven't dissected the "OFficial" TSL website, so I hadn't read that. It would seem that Atris did, indeed, give the Jedi up. @melly, does that dialog ever show up in-game? Not doubting it, but just curious that I'd never seen it before. Still, if it didn't make the final cut, and as I'm not yet a modder, I'd never have occasion to see it.

 

@ beast thrasher: beyond the johnson swelling self congratulatory nature of the phrase "sorry to burst your bubble," what was the point of using it? We've been having what I thought was a thoughtful exchange of ideas here and the contentious nature of that phrase seems out of place. My bubble, if I had one, is not inviolate, and I have not yet had any problem with anybody with more information than I in disproving any of my theories.

[Beast-Thrasher]

Just saying your wrong sounded a little mean, the part that you talked about,(Atris) well you were wide of the mark and I wanted to let you know. Perhaps I said sorry to burst your bubble because in what you said, you never mentioned that if anybody else knew anything on the matter if they could reply or that you weren't sure, you just wrote that there was no way of knowing that Atris leaked information on the whereabouts of the Conclave when infact there was. I didn't mean anything by it. Sometimes things on the net don't sound the way they do in person.

[Melly]

@melly, does that dialog ever show up in-game? Not doubting it, but just curious that I'd never seen it before. Still, if it didn't make the final cut, and as I'm not yet a modder, I'd never have occasion to see it.

 

Not to my knowledge. I found it in the .tlk files when I was looking for something that Visas said about Katarr, but I've never heard it in game.

[Master Alex]

Maybe Revan programmed T3-M4 so he would lead someone to find him. T3-M4 somehow picks up Kreia in the Ebon Hawk and because of her T3-M4 might have found you instead of the designated target ( like Bastila or some other Jedi). Or Kreia could tell what T3-M4 was doing and she manipulated the manipulator to taking you instead of someone else. Makes you think doesn' t it.

[Melly]

T3 mentions to the Exile that he came looking for her specifically.

 

But why me? I was powerless... defenseless. You needed the last of the Jedi... the last hero of the Mandalorian Wars. Me.

 

or

 

You needed someone strong enough to fight the danger that was coming.

 

Also I don't think Kreia was on the Ebon Hawk originally (before it was attack by the Sith warship) Kreia says: When we intercepted the Harbinger, it was crippled, drifting in space. It was a simple matter to board the vessel and rescue you. {Sighs}Unknown to me, however, the Sith were already on board. Just as we made the jump to hyperspace, they fired upon us, nearly destroying the Ebon Hawk. How could she intercept the Harbinger if she was already on board the Ebon Hawk which was on board the Harbinger?

[PoiuyWired]

Should we get back to the topic? This thread should be about EH and T3 mainly...

 

Actually, I would say that since T3 has been the default droid for EH for a long time the system on EH is reprogrammed/modified so much that any droid other than T3 would have a hard time flying it. So yeah, in a way T3 is a necessary part for the EH.

 

Yes we do know T3 being almost the only one working on EH for quite some long period of time, and probably ever since he joins the EH from Revan.

[HerbieZ]

To be honest as T3 has pretty much got the T-Shirts, so to speak, i imagined a possible scene from Kotor 3. The player, exile, revan, bob, whatever gets a vision from the future and there is a humanoid man telling them about what happened to the ebon hawk and what happened in the past. This man is actually T3 as an advanced cybernetic lifeform (remember this is like 100 thousand years in the future) who appears suave much like James Bond and wears a T3 beanie so players get a clue that it's him.

 

Typical Responses aside.. I believe we have not found the true first owner of the Ebon Hawk yet.

[deathdisco]

^^^^^^

How about a vision of the future where T3 get upgraded and a new designation...

R2D2

[Canderous_ordo1]

ive got a few hunches about the ebon hawk that i picked up in the game that i think the exchange stole the ebon hawk from the red eclipse then as we all know canderous worked for the echange so what i think he was there as extra guns to steal the ship from the red eclipse but they wernt able to get it back because of the planet lock down on taris therefore falling into davik hands

[Darth Manus]

The Ebon Hawk never belonged to the Red Eclipse. It used to belong to that guy who shows up on Nar Shadaa, and he claims it was stolen from him near the end of the Mandalorian Wars, during a mid-rim run. Since Davik was the next known owner, one can assume that he either liked the ship's speed and had it stolen, or someone else did. Also, the way Davik talks about the ship makes it sound as if he already had it before the planetary blockade. Don't forget that the Sith went around confiscating all the heavy weapons and spaceships on Taris.

[Ztalker]

^

^

The theory started AFTER the events you described, so the Red Eclipse has nothing to do with the shinyjedi's theory.

 

In fact, i kind of like it. I always felt that R2 was causing the events in Star Wars too. He brought Ben and Luke together, etc etc.

 

Good theory, but we'll have to wait till K3 to find out the truth, won't we?

[PoiuyWired]

So... maybe T3 is what Skippy COULD HAVE BEEN if he had survived???

 

So T3 is the original Jedi Droid!!!

 

j/k

 

PS: For Skippy awareness read more EU!!! :3

[lessthanjake2]

Heres what I think:

 

Revan went off by himself, and he couldnt take Bastila and all them cause he thought they would get corrupted by dark side powers wherever he was going. So once he got where he wanted to go, he sent T3 to find the Exile who he knew was not able to be corrupted completely by dark side powers because he became that whole echo in the force thing (and obviously because he was the only guy that wasnt corrupted or killed by Malachor V). So Revan figured the Exile would be his best ally in what was to come. He also wanted T3 to gather up droids because they are also not corruptable by darkness.

 

Kreia was also looking for the Exile to save him/her from the danger of the Sith assault orchestrated by Atris leaking info of the Exile. I think that Kreia could sense that the Ebon Hawk was trying to find the same thing she was, and joined forces (the EH is fast and a good ship, it was probably her fastest way of getting to the Exile).

 

After the whole Peragus thing, Kreia just wanted to evade the Sith long enough to teach the Exile enough so that he/she would become stronger than her. She even said she didnt know the Jedi Masters were still alive. T3 had other ideas. I think he was programmed by Revan to have The Exile trained again in the ways of the Force by real Jedi Masters (cause he had to be as powerful as possible to help Revan). In fulfilling that function, he found out where the remaining Masters were and gave that info to The Exile as well as the holovid of the trial, hoping that he/she would try to find the Masters and in doing so would subsequently learn stuff from them and learn along the way getting there.

 

Kreia complicates things with how she uses the Exile but in general T3 makes the plan work.

[goldberry]

How could T3 be the manipulator if he has wiped all memory of his reasoning from his system? The only manipulator is Kreia, as she pretends to be an ally and then screws you over at the end. While T3, HK-47, and Canderous (Mandalore) know that something must be done, they haven't ever tried to manipulate the Exile asside from T3 getting the ship to him in the first place.

 

While on the subject of Revan, could I pose the question that while he decided he should have no attachments in the unknown regions, it seems coherant to the story that Zalbar would have gone with him (As he is a normal, non-psycotic wookie who honors his lifedebts properly.), and if Zalbar went, Mission would have gone with Zalbar. I can't remember if Bastilla went (though that was mentioned in one of T3's holo-recordings (WAHOO BACK ON TOPIC XD). Regardless, the attachment thing seemed to have died pretty quick...

[PoiuyWired]

Bastila is trying to find Revan, but did not go with him(as per recording), probably got ditched or something.

 

Mission and Zalbar is not mentioned cause they can be killed with DS endings. Also, Revan probably would prefer them to stay, and would sneak out on them, definitely making Zalbar a really annoyed fluffball in the process. Well, they are a nice couple anyways, they can survive(if not killed by a DS Revan).

[goldberry]

Mission and Zalbar is not mentioned cause they can be killed with DS endings.

 

While the rest of your post is fair enough (thanks for clearing up the thing with bastila btw.), the canon ending is LS, so Big Z and Mission are still alive.

[DarthScribble]

And also this from the .tlk files:

Atris: {Contemptuous}I did not flee. I did what was necessary to fight the Sith - and preserve the last of the Jedi. {A little distant, like watching a scene far away} Yes... I sensed what would happen on Katarr. It was I who leaked knowledge of its presence in the hopes of drawing the Sith out. I will not deceive you... I knew what could happen there, but it had to be done to make the Sith reveal themselves. But I did not know the extent of their power - and what that meant for the Jedi. I will not underestimate them again.

 

Since it was asked, yeah, this quote is available in the first interaction with Atris, but it's a fairly complex (read: confusing) conversation tree, so I can see how most may miss it. I stumbled across it while attempting to provoke her (if memory serves...it's been a while now), but at any rate, I can guarantee it's there.

 

Btw, interesting theory here. I would be inclined to give it some weight to some extent. I too have always mused at how independent R2 is in the films and how he always seemed to know more than he was able/willing to communicate. I am fairly confident that T3 is at least a nod in that direction if not a blatant spoof, so it makes since that 'his' character would be the same.

Also, as a side, keep in mind that Lucas' own interpretation of how droids are treated in the SW universe is very much as slave labor. Some are appreciated and even loved, but most are expected to be seen and not heard unless request, and definitely not much more than a tool at best. They are basically ignored and taken for granted by most all sentients. That is why it is 'unusual' or 'irritating' to most SWU characters when one 'special' character has an affinity to droids. It seems odd to the 'galactic culture' as a whole and just wrong somehow. (Ref. Anikan, Revan, etc.) It's hard to see for us as fans b/c those "unusuals" (that are actually more common to us viewers) are the characters that we have gotten used to b/c they are more common in the SW books/movies than what the setting is assuming to be the norm. (*shew*)

[Jediphile]

I do agree with most of the original theory on this topic. T3 is quite a manipulator, albeit one with far more benevolent intentions than Kreia. A few points...

 

First of all, T3 and HK went with Revan to the unknown regions. Bastila says in T3's holorecording that Revan would take T3 with him, and HK later tells us that while his memory has been wiped, he does remember that it was his master (meaning Revan) who did this.

 

Kreia: "The Sith is a belief. And its empire, the true Sith Empire, rules elsewhere.And Revan knew the true war is not against the Republic. It waits for us, beyond the Outer Rim. And he has gone to fight it, in his own way.He left the Ebon Hawk and its machines behind, for he knew he would not need them.And, like you, he knew he must leave all loves behind as well, no matter how deeply one cares for them. Because such attachments are not the way of the Jedi, and they would only bring doom to them both in the dark places where he now walks. It would have helped had he made her understand. But she was always strong-willed, that one, and did not understand war as Revan did."

 

The last bit speaks to Revan's non-droid companions (and particularly Bastila) and why they did not go with him. But did the droids go? Yes, they did, because they were on the Ebon Hawk, and the LS Exile learns this from Carth.

 

Carth: "We saved the Republic. But it was like the war didn't end for him. He would keep remembering things that he'd done, and it kept driving him.And I think he finally remembered something terrible that he'd done during the Mandalorian Wars. And he went to put an end to it.{Talking about Bastilla}He left a lot of people who cared about him behind. But I think he did it because he thought it was the right thing to do. But whatever he set out to do, I...I don't think he succeeded.And here you return, with his ship, without him. Yes, wherever he went, your ship's been there."

 

The navicomputer is locked, because Revan did not want anyone to follow him. T3 locked it. Kreia implies that she locked it, but what she really says is just that she has the means of controlling the ship. All she has is really the knowledge that T3 controls the ship. Because unlike the droids, she did not go with Revan to the unknown regions.

 

Kreia: "Because I did not know where he had gone. If he had asked... would I have gone? I do not know."

 

But Kreia did meet Revan before he went to the unknown regions, though.

 

Kreia: "He came to me, yes. Both before and after, before Revan knew himself.And after, in the times when Revan was coming into his own and learning he was more than he had been told."

 

It may be taken as a supposition that the time she refers to in the latter case is after the events of KotOR1, but I do think it fits. Revan needed to learn the location of the Sith Empire, and he learned that at the Trayus Academy on Malachor V after KotOR1. He met Kreia there, but did not trust her, since she was Darth Traya, and so did not take her with him or even trust her. He was there only for knowledge, and when he had it, he left again, leaving Kreia behind.

 

How Kreia reenters the story is then a good question. Personally I think she came looking for the Exile as a means to stage her own vengeance against Sion and, particularly, Nihilus. She knew full well that the Exile was the only one who could defeat Nihilus in spite of his power, and she used that to her advantage. But I don't think she was on the Ebon Hawk, though I'm not sure how she got there. She could have been hiding on the Sith warship or on a fourth ship (neither the Harbinger, EH, or the Sith warship), but we actually never learn the details of the prologue...

[psychomonkey62]

I say he gets a spin-off.