Original Trilogy finally coming on DVD!

[Kurgan]

Sorry for the multiple posts, just replying to different people.

 

 

Look on the bright side. People got what they claimed they wanted. Completely unaltered originals. Why should they be cleaned up and remastered? That would be evil Lucas tampering with them again!

 

Except when people asked for "unaltered originals" they meant the theatrical versions, not the home video versions from 1993, dumped from the LaserDisks straight to DVD, which seems to be what we're getting (except the opening crawl has been modified in ANH to simulate how it was in 1977).

 

Since ANH presumably lacks the mono track as an option, then it's not being true to the original. Likewise, having Dolby 2.0 only also means that those of us who saw ESB or ROTJ in theaters with 6 channel won't be getting what we got back then (Dolby 5.1 would much more closely aproximate what we heard). Anamorphic widescreen more closely simulates the theatrical experience on a widescreen TV (blowing it up will introduce jaggies or make it blurrier than it is intended to be, otherwise you get vertical black bars on the sides AND on the top and bottom.. that's why they make all widescreen DVD'sanamorphic nowadays).

 

So despite this being marketed as "unaltered" they really are altered. It would be more correct to say these are just how we've been seeing them on home video from 1993 (though we don't know about the audio really, it might just be the THX "Faces" soundtrack, rather than the pre-1992 sound that was heard in theaters, much less the mono track of the ORIGINAL 1977 release of Star Wars with the original Aunt Beru). It's cool that they're putting in a retro crawl for Star Wars. I like that. But beyond that, this isn't authentic, so the fans aren't wrong to whine...

 

Lucas COULD have done it right, he just, for whatever reason (pride, ego, lack of desire to really do it right), didn't. He can't be that willfully ignorant of his own movies and industry standards (many of which he helped to create), can he?

 

 

I heard a rumor (one of the user reviews on Amazon.com for Star Wars 2006), that in fact it was not Lucas' decision to release these, but Fox's.

 

They wanted to meet the fan demand but Lucas refused to spend any money on it, so they did it as cheaply as possible (hence the LaserDisc dumpage, cheesy photoshop covers, and general lack of basic features/extras) and only for a "limited time" (remember, Lucas claimed repeatedly that these versions no longer existed for him)... but he did insist that they include his 2004 Editions. Presumably then if they sell well, Lucas can say it was his new enhanced editions that did it, and if not he can claim "see, nobody wants these obsolete, unfinished works!"

 

And if this rumor is true, it makes Lucas seem a little less petty about the lack of features, but the whole situation still stinks from a fan's point of view. We should have gotten a cleaned up, but no CG, no modified scenes version of the Original Trilogy side by side with the new fangled special editions back in 2004 (or the whole thing should have just been delayed until now to iron out the obvious flaws, after all, Lucas waited four years after the DVD format came out to even release any Star Wars movies on it, and it took actually seven years for the classic trilogy to make it on in ANY form). But then he couldn't have made a few extra million getting people to buy it multiple times...

 

Better than nothing, but still. Thank God for Ebay/Amazon...

 

PS: I agree, if this was just being sold as a boxed set (or individual DVD's) without the 2004 editions, for half price (which would work out to about $10 each including tax), hardly anyone would be complaining. It's the perception that Lucas is thumbing his nose to us even as he gives us what we asked for, as if he can't stand for his fans to actually get what they wanted after all these years (which virtually any other filmmaker would have done by now) that annoys people I think. It is odd though that people who claim not to care about the "controversy" keep buying the same movies over and over though, just like the hardcore fans...

[edlib]

Well, my model is still the E.T. DVD set that Spielberg classily packaged both versions of the movie in the same box and let fans decide which version to watch on any given viewing session, along with various special features, different on each disk.

 

Seemed like a good compromise for the fans when dealing with a director that can't keep his fingers off his old movies and leave the past alone.

 

It's fine to me that you want to make changes and improvements... as long as the original exists for history to judge.

 

But: you wouldn't just go and colorize a classic B&W film, say the Maltese Falcon or Casablanca, or alter any film that contains all the groundbreaking Harry Harryhausen stop motion work with improved CGI animation, then destroy all the original masters and prints, assuming that there's nobody that would ever, ever want to see the unaltered versions compared to the new, "improved" ones.

 

No lover of classic film would ever stand for that,.. Lucas himself included. Why should his tampering with no recourse to see the versions that made these films universally loved and instant classics be tolerated?

 

It really doesn't seem that much to ask to have nice, remastered audio and video of the original releases without all of the director's changes...

 

But I'm still waiting for someone to give a comprehensive review of the quality of these disks before I truly decide.

I suspect that I'll eventually be buying them. But I think wait a couple of weeks (or months,) before I rush out to get my hands on them. I think I might have SW overload burnout. A condition I never thought I'd get in my lifetime.

[Darth Groovy]

I've got mine pre-ordered at Suncoast Video. I am picking them up after work today. Currently I only have the unedited movies on VHS, and those are not widescreen either.

[toms]

I wouldn't bother with these if i was you. They have already said that they are bringing out ANOTHER version in 2007 for the 30th aniversary. And the reviews i've read say the picture quality is pretty rubbish on the originals. People are hoping that the 2007 release will get some decently remastered, anamprphic versions of the originals, but who knows.

 

Here is a review, and some pics:

http://avplay.avforums.com/index.php?showreview=8059&reviewid=12516

 

That picture quality looks rubbish.. look at the grain and the compression.. almost as if they purposefully made it look bad in comparison to the remastered originals.. hmm..

 

Tho if anyone DOES get it i'd be interested to know their opinion.

[Jeff]

That quality almost looks worse than my VHS tapes.

[Kurgan]

Sorry to revisit this yet again, but I had some more thoughts (don't I always)...

 

I don't mind cosmetic improvments but I still would want the original cut and original effects. I just don't want any dust, dirt, scratches and stuff of that nature.

 

Yeah, there is a difference between removing scratches, dirt and smudges, and actually removing the film grain itself so render it looking like video tape (the "digital look") rather than film stock (celluloid).

 

If you watch a movie you can look closely and notice subtle grain in the picture. That's actually normal. Removing the grain, to make it look digital was done deliberately to give them a "modernized" look like Episode II and III had (they were not originally shot on film, though most of us saw them in theaters ON film, because they were transferred to that medium, because only a small percentage of theaters are really setup for digital pictures).

 

Compare the original Matrix to the Matrix sequels. I believe the same thing was done with the re-release of the DVD of the original matrix (which I refused to buy). They changed the color timing to "match" the sequels and removed the grain to make it look more digital. That's not a restoration, that's a change (just like colorizing a black and white film or, less controversially, adding a modern score to a silent film, though arguably one could turn down the volume in the later case to re-create the effect, and most movies back then had specific scores or a live performer with a piano or other keyboard instrument improvising on the spot to the movie).

 

Actually that is a good example. When many of us as kids viewed silent films in the 1980's they were COMPLETELY silent. Most of these movies really did have a music score back in the day. They also weren't all sped up like we see them (they were played back in modern days too fast due to some kind of techological change, iirc), but people enjoyed the "comedy" of the fast pace and so many films remained that way. Also the heavy dirt and grime wasn't there originally (the nature of the film stock and the treatment of it lead to it rapidly deteriorating, but originally it would have looked as pristine as any black and white film made in the last 10 years).

 

Also the use of tints (like blue to show outdoor scenes at night or in the cold/weather) and even early color in old movies has only recently been restored to some of those films to more closely aproximate what audiences would have seen when they were new, but again, many people aren't even aware of that. People were even confused when they began showing "letterbox" movies on TV a decade or so ago, thinking that the black bars were "cutting off" part of the picture (forgetting that they had actually been watching movies with the side chopped off for years).

 

So it's not that people wanted to see the SW movies as they looked in 1993, or how they look today, as they've been sitting in a vault aging, but as they would have looked in the theater on opening night two decades ago (or as close as possible to that). THAT, is what we mant by "original unaltered."

 

But you get thousands of posts by people who don't understand that, saying how we're whiners and hypocrites not to just be happy that we're getting laserdisc dumps.

 

Anyway, anybody have it and wish to comment? I'm curious to hear people's reactions, especially from folks who have actually watched them and paid attention.

[Kurgan]

Btw, does any site have the guts to show us how crappy the lightsabers look in the 2004 editions compared to the originals?

 

The official site didn't, I wonder if anyone else will? THAT, is where we really see the Lowry Digital screw ups and why nobody can say the 2004 editions are perfect, even if they love every CG change and sound edit.

 

 

Here's a review. Confirmed, they're non-anamorphic (at least "bonus disc" isn't, obviously disc 1 is, since it's the 2004 version copied exactly from the the previous two releases).

 

http://avplay.avforums.com/index.php?showr...;reviewid=12516

 

And their reviews of the other two:

 

http://avplay.avforums.com/index.php?showreview=8245

 

http://avplay.avforums.com/index.php?showreview=8251

[Prime]

Meh, I'll probably wait and see if they have the rumored better versions next year. If I ever get the desire to watch the unaltered, I still have my VHS tapes, which are still in good shape.

[•-BLaCKouT-•]

^ ^ ^

I think that's the only thing I actively dislike about the 2004 version; those damned marshmallow sabers in one or two scenes Apart from that I love 'em.

 

Having said that, I got my 'unaltered' DVDs today and I love them too Depending on what mood I'm in, I'll often choose to watch one of my old VHS versions over the DVD version (I have many releases), so this is like an extra option for me: I can watch it 'old school' without arsing about with that damned VHS machine I've got no problems at all about buying additional versions of the movies, after all - no-one's forcing me to buy them. I didn't get last year's '3-disc' set as there was nothing new on it. I justify it thusly:

 

 

• I'm not into cars or hi-fi's, and mates of mine spend stupid £££s on those.

• If I wasn't buying DVDs, VHSs and toys, it'd only be going into my local landlord's bank account.

• No-one's making me buy them - I do it because I have mild OCD

• I work damned hard for my money, I'll spend it how I want.

 

Oh, and is it wrong to get your new DVDs from Woolies, and pay for each one seperately so you get three free Vader figures..? Because the girl at the counter was fine about it

 

...what?

 

B..

[Commander Obi-Wan]

And even though you prefer the SE's (to something you've never seen) you're going to buy this anyway?

 

The main reason why I am buying the OT veriosn with the original and digitally remastered that come out yesterday was because I don't own any of the OT movies yet. I just recently bought the prequels since they were on sale for a decent price.

 

Anyway, the only way I am going to buy anymore SW DVDs is if they come out with something that blows my mind and I have to purchase. Which I don't see coming soon. Though, the I am pretty sure I will be buying the DVDs (or what ever comes out by the time) for the TV Series if they release it the public.

 

btw, the movies I just purchased yesterday are still in the wrapping so I can return them and get my money back if I feel it's necessary and I hear something else is wrong with them.

[Kurgan]

You can always rent before you buy.

 

And/or sell your old copies...

[Commander Obi-Wan]

Though, I am re-thinking of returning in my DVDs and wait till the last moment to re-purchase them if I don't like the 30th anniversary set. And I might just rent them to see how they are.

[toms]

Also, to anyone who has these new DVDs, do they have the sound correct on the start of the death star battle this time?

 

I'm assuming they do since its only 2.0 sound and they haven't bothered upgrading it to 5.1.

 

In the "upgraded" dvd versions the dramatic musical flourish as they start their dive to the surface is really muted.. kind of kills most of the excitement.

[Kurgan]

Okay, I asked people about the Death Star sequence and nobody could give me a definitive answer (presumably it was fine). Now that I have them, I checked myself and I realized I'd misquoted the scene's position in the movie.

 

Red Leader says "as I cut across the axis to draw their fire" (or something to that effect) and that is the FIRST trench run. That is, you see the X-wings spiral out of formation and then "angle in" to the trench. When that happens you here this dramatic series of notes (duh dun dun duh duh daa). That is the part that's missing from the 2004 English/Spanish tracks. In those versions all you hear is the ship engine noise (though some have said if you crank it up and put your ear to the speaker.. which sounds dangerous, you can barely hear the music in the background, drowned out by the engines).

 

That music is perfect in the "theatrical" bonus Star Wars.

[Kurgan]

^I think I heard that for the 30th anniv. set that's coming out next year they're going to make even more changes. I think that they're even going to make mods to the prequel trilogy.

 

Just a quick question about the prequel DVDs. I know they added a bit to TPM for the DVD (i forget about the VHS) like a bit more of the pod race and when they first arrive at Corouscant withg Anakin. Then a few more seconds to the release of AOTC where Anakin says something about Jedis aren't supposed to be like this or something. Did they add/change anything in ROTS from the theatrical versions like they did with TPM and AOTC?

 

The only difference people have reported of the ROTS DVD from the theatrical version is that instead of doing a diagonal wipe from Obi-Wan in the cockpit of the ship to Anakin's robot hand crawling out of the lava pit, it's just a straight cut.

 

Rumors that the "NOooooo!!" is shorter on the DVD are just that, rumors.

 

Otherwise they're identical. None of the "deleted scenes" were incorporated into the actual feature presentation.

[Prime]

Wasn't there some talk that puppet Yoda was going to be replaced with digital Yoda in TPM?

[Kurgan]

Yes. A brief shot of that was shown in the ROTS making of vids, and one of the LucasFilm people apparently blabbed that it was already done like last year. So everyone is assuming that this new set will have an all-digital Yoda throughout Episode I.

 

A lot of changes were actually made to Episode I for the DVD release in 2001. DVDActive has a nice article on it, but basically, Lap 2 was expanded (the Deleted Scenes for that were even longer, but it was expanded from the theatrical version). Some human senators (cameos by crew people actually!) were replaced with Twi'Lek aliens in the scene with the fat blue Twi'Lek senator guy. A shot in the crowd of Warwick Davis cameo (not his only cameo of course) and Watto yelling "Sebulba!" was cut out. An establishing shot of Palpatine's house (?) was cut and replaced with the "Coruscant Taxi" scene (Anakin goes with Jar Jar in the floating taxi that flies over the city to give us a nice shot of the surroundings, and Jar Jar makes some comment about how the Queen is being so nice to him and she's "Pity Hot" (!)). There may have been a few other minor ones. But anyway, yeah.

 

I also imagine they'll erase the film grain from Episode I, making it look like digital video, to match the 2004 SE's and Episode II and III.

 

No idea what else they might change. At this point, the rest is speculation. But if what Star Wars.com said is true, no Original Theatrical Trilogy will be included in that new set.

[Kurgan]

Oops, here's the article:

 

DVDActive, Star Wars: The Changes Part 4 (Changes to the Prequels so far)

 

Though not part of that article, Screenshots of CG Yoda have been posted for awhile now (since before the RotS DVD was released, the brief clip, of Yoda sitting in his chair, CG, was included on the DVD in one of the specials, right after a clip of Hayden Christiansen talking about the Dark Side).

[toms]

Cool about them fixing the music in ANH. Its amazing how that slight change in music completely killed the atmosphere!

 

Its a shame if the new set doesn't get a decent version (or even any version) of the original cuts. :(

Though I thought they might pull that when they made this lot a "limited period only" set.

 

I wonder if they can do anything to fix Ep 1 and Ep 2. With lucas's penchant (spelling?) for changing his films it would be nice if he could actually do something to fix the REALLY bad bits, instead of just breaking the bits people actually like.

 

I always wanted to see the Ep2 Imax presentation, which apparently had to cut a load of the cheesy romance out to fit on the Imax format.. and actually made the film better.

 

Wonder if they'll cut aurra sing back out of Ep1.. as her last minute insertion amounted to ZERO.

If anyone's seem the Phantom Edit they'll know that with some editing Ep1 can be improved.. though its still only just passable. Cutting out a lot of the Jar-Jar comedy and Jake's "Whoo!"s would help though.

[Kurgan]

Well nothing was really fixed, it just hasn't changed since 1993. The 2004 soundtrack was the one that was messed up (and still is). If you want to hear the 'real music' on the 2004 DVD, switch to the french track.

 

You know, it's a little weird on my DVD's, I was looking around and for some reason there's multiple titles (you can view them in the PowerDVD browser menu), but they all lead to the main feature. I wonder if that's just thrown in to fool copying software? Because really there's just the main feature, the xbox trailer, the THX optimizer, the graphical menu, and a short clip for the THX testing (less than a minute long, in ROTJ it's the "doorbell" scene with the droids, in Star Wars it's Ben and the Tractor beam, haven't checked the ESB one).

 

To get the feel for the Episode II presentation, put your eyeballs right up against your screen and run it in pan 'n' scan mode. Edit out about 20 minutes or so of the slower parts (less cheesy romance, yay! no surfing on top of a CG cow!) and you've got it. I will admit the detail on IMAX is amazing. AOTC was one of the few movies I'd seen "really done for IMAX" rather than just blown up (in that rectangle) across the huge screen. It was a big square that fit the entire screen, rather than an "anamorphic" block. In closeups of people's faces you could see their pores.

 

I never felt Lucas would ever cut anything these days, only add things, but then he did cut some of the cameos in Episode I (too embarrassing? did they get fired? demanded too much money?), but that's about it. Editing out Aurra Sing wouldn't really do anything one way or the other. Would it eliminate the embarrassing quote by... (who was it, Rick McCallum or somebody else, that she'd have an "expanded role" in Episode II/III?) whomever, yes, but otherwise no. She's just another random bystander to add "color" to the crowds on Tatooine (and for EU authors to write a complicated backstory for).