UDM Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 I find that the mod is too complex for newcomers. Some get too confused, and then dismiss the mod as being lame or random or something. Then there are references to MB2, which imho has a less complex, more mainstream combat system. Problem is, there are so many things to learn, that people normally just assume they've seen it all in just a few mins. They get frustrated when they get killed, and the natural reaction is to point fingers at the mod. In other words, they haven't fully absorbed all of OJP's beauty, before dumping it into the recycling bin. Comparatively, Forcemod and MB2 are much easier to get into, and it's a 10-mins-before-you've-seen-it-all process (referring to lightsaber duels only) I've got a few suggestions for helping people get into the mod easier: 1) A "Trainers" group can be set up, and recruiting people from all over the world. Trainers will be volunteers, helping newbies to play with the saber system. I suggest trainers, depending on where they are, set up a few slots a week for teaching newbies, instead of having to be PMed by a newcomer once every 3-4 hours. I can help out the Asian community, and similarly others can help out people around their area 2) A Training gamemode. This will help people familiarize with the new saber combat system. For example, you start off in a map, and it greets you with text on-screen. Then, you have to follow its instructions eg. "To perform an attack fake, you have to hold attack and alternate attack. You will know that you're successful when your saber changes direction." *you proceed to attack fake* "Good! Now let's move on to so-and-so section". Even cooler is if we could have voice acting in addition to the text subtitles. I wish I could help out on this, but my field is only limited to mapping here What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackBaldy Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 This has to do with my performance in Meatgrinder doesn't it... Well, I apologize, I was out of line by exposing the newcomer to all that cheapness. I guess I got a little frustrated because the code server hasn't been up in a while and I was hoping for OJP to make a bit more progress. Hopefully the code server gets up soon lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UDM Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 I blame it more on the server than you because of the whole no dodge bull**** (I was really angry with the lack of dodge!). Though I don't know what exactly your frustrations are despite reading your posts on the forum, this isn't my first experience trying to help people get into the game. It's easy for them to dismiss the mod as anything but good, hence I decided to come up with some suggestions I think we need to slow down a bit here anyway. It's Razor's project anyway, and because it's a 1-man team, we need to consider the time constraints on his part too. Of course, we all want 010, and hope for it to be as sweet as possible, but realistically speaking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 No dodge on the MeatGrinder? Say wha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 No dodge on the MeatGrinder? Say wha? Yep, someone turned it off. It had to be a meat grinder admin. I just found the password, but the meatgrinder shutdown before I could change it back sadly. We were in the middle of a game and I was teaching somebody the system when that happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 I'm a newcomer, I just got the mod a couple days ago, but I think the mod is one of the best I've ever tried out, and i'm keeping it in my base folder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Yep, someone turned it off. It had to be a meat grinder admin. I just found the password, but the meatgrinder shutdown before I could change it back sadly. We were in the middle of a game and I was teaching somebody the system when that happened. Hmmm, ok. Well, at the moment it looks like some of the other admins are using it to play Basic. If they don't change it back to Enhanced after they're done, I'll have a chat with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I hear ya... changing it back to Enhanced... as for the dodge thing, I don't mess with the Enhanced settings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathain Valtiel Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Nor have I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Hmmm, is vruki an admin? I know he likes to play enhance with dodge off. Maybe he was playing on it and forgot to turn it back on or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vruki Salet Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 No I'm not an admin there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 No I'm not an admin there. Its a conspiracy!!!!!! LOL I know, It was Coronal Mustard in the green room with the candel stick!!!....or ...at least the meatgrinder password. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UDM Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 Argh could be an error or something. Let's not look too much into it Back on topic, what do you guys think of the ideas I posted? We could set up the Trainers League right now. As for the map that I suggested, it can be done at a later time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Of the two ideas, I think the training/newbie groups would probably be the best. A training map would be VERY complicated to put together. Plus, we'd have to have a finalized version of the saber system first. But, I suspect that that's the way things are already. I know that Hocky and Jack are often helping people learn the system online. Secondly, if people don't read the documentation there's no reason to beleive that they would read the fact that a training group exists in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 If you had a training server, wouldn't you need people to stay in the server to train people. I suppose you could monitor the server while doing other things and if a person joins, you can join. I dunno... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojo Spyps Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I agree with you one-hundred percent. And that's not just because I got the mod fifteen minutes ago and need serious help. Maybe you could dedicate a certain amount of time daily or weekly to helping people. And if OJP supports multiple duels, then every person could get on-on-one training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 All newcomers also need to be sure to read the saber manual that is in the enhanced folder. It saves us trainers alot of typing if you already know a few things. There have been many of us that learned almost completely by reading the manual and fighting Tabbots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Scheduling an advertised time and place is probably a good idea. If we get enough people who are willing to be trainers, I'll place a note about it on the website/readme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojo Spyps Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I've read the manual, and understand all the aspects of saber combat. However, I would like to possibly start out with someone a little less ruthless than the bots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UDM Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 Yeah on that note, bots just want to tear your limbs apart, but trust me, when you fight with Jackbaldy, he shows no mercy. The wanker just ripped me apart in 3 seconds! LOL! And I can 0wn tabbots easily. Someday Jack...someday... Razor, do you think it'd be a good idea to compile OJP in an installer? We could have the installer create shortcuts on desktop, which can be left to the player's discretion. Also, we could have the manual load up on its own upon finishing installing. This would tell players "hey dude, we have a fricking manual, and I'm loading it up for you once you're done installing the mod, so there's no excuse for you not to say 'I don't know there's a manual!'" As for the training group, maybe you could sticky a thread, and interested trainers will post on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 The only admins I know about on Razor's server (Meatgrinder OJP) are: myself, Lathain Valtiel, ONLYONECANNOLI, and now JRHockney Anybody else, please introduce yourself, I'd like to be able to keep track of everyone, so we can work as a team. And installer might be good, so long as it takes into account Mac users out there, and that not everyone installs JA in the "default directory" (I never install games in the default folder unless forced). At first I hadn't heard about JRHockney, but no problem. If he's okay with Razor, he's okay with me. As long as the people we have are trustworthy, it's cool. When I got too busy to help as much as I used to, we brought on Lath and Cannoli. Cannoli hasn't had as much time lately, so bringing in another person is cool with me. Put me on your ICQ list (3295836) or email me anytime. Don't be a stranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 An installer is a good idea, but I'm not aware of how we'd make it work. As for Macs, maybe it would be easier if Mac users just get a seperate package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Shaft Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Yo. I finally caved and installed JKA. I went around at first trying out all the mods I could. Forcemod 3 was first. It was fun... but not something to play for a long time. I was more interested in all the classes it threw in. Moviebattles has been my recent foray. I enjoyed that mod too, and I agree with some other posters about the system, etc. It's a good class-based game, I think, that could use some significant improvement in some areas, but I have to admit that it really does shine in terms of it's class-based gaming. Then, on a whim, I kept hearing murmurings about OJP over at MBII. I thought to myself, "Why would they mention OJP?" So I went and checked it out myself. Good god, man. All this time, I suspected you were just making minor changes and handing people some code you made. I thought OJP was just a "I fixed some small things with base JKA, but otherwise, meh." I had no idea you had all of this... stuff. I'm officially hooked. I tried to saber the bots and watched as they blocked all my stuff, and in frustration I was tooled. But it was a good tooling. Like "Hm, I can learn to get better at this." There was no wiffle bat syndrome. And it was a systme that consisted of more than just "clash clash, block, clash, block, try to bypass the block, clash, smash, kick down, clash." Although, with my newbie self, alot of my battles online and with bots have consisted of me just clashing and eventually dying. This stuff is hard to understand and get a hold of. But it rocks. Too bad there's only two servers up for .009b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_chimp Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 as for a training map it wouldnt have to look special are anything would it, i could probley make one but im not so femilliar with the saber system but a training session with razor or hockney would fix that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UDM Posted July 4, 2006 Author Share Posted July 4, 2006 Doctor Shaft: glad you liked the mod, 010 will have faster paced combat, and I'm going to help Hockney with the manual too. I didn't think anything of the mod before I tried it, but I had the same reaction like you when I finally did Greiver: I suppose so, I could help with the map because I've got more experience with mapping than any other areas of modding, but then single player scripts are a problem for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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