M$-78 in game trailer

[The Architect]

Also, as Mac has stated, Chris Avellone himself has stated that the reason for the cutting of M4-78, the Droid Factory and the endscenes was time.

 

I was the one who said that, not Mac. I posted the quote first and provided the link. Well, I suppose it doesn't really matter, but Mac has said that:

Well, that answers the question as to why the Droid Planet and Malacore were not completed. But, it does not answer why the HK-Factory was removed.

 

He believes that there 'could' be other reasons apart from 'time-constraints' as to why the Droid Factory (the HK-Factory) was removed from the game. But you see, the HK-Factory must have been removed because of 'time-constraints', why else would it be cut? You don't cut something out as important as that unless you have no other choice. I understand that some things were cut out because they weren't necessary or important (a scrapped idea), but 'if' anyone was to claim that the HK-Factory was not important to the context of the game plotwise then they are a fool, because the HK-Factory was important to the plot (for reasons Jediphile has already stated). To argue otherwise would be ridiclious. If the HK-Factory was something that Obsidian 'wanted' to cut and weren't 'forced' to cut due to time-constraints, then they would of removed the whole entire HK-50 plot from the game.

 

I do agree that M4-78 wasn't necessary and so could be safely cut from the game (although it was originally intended to be important, but Emperor Devon has already covered that point).

 

The original poster of the Chris Avellon quote took it out of context, and I placed it back into context. As you can see, the quote speaks volumes when you place it back into its original form. Leaving out words can change a quote's or a scentence's meaning. Removing the quote from a paragraph can also change the meaning. I just placed it back into context. It is not my fault that your proof back fired.

 

Just how did I place that quote out of context? Can you back that claim of yours up?

 

Chris Avellone says "In the end, I do wish there had been more time and I wished I had had more time to work on the end game, and that was my fault. We did get a lot accomplished in the time we had, and I probably should have cut another planet (the droid planet got the axe). I still think it's a good RPG, we probably should have just made it shorter".

 

Either way, even if Obsidian managed the 'short' amount of time they were given badly (but that was due to the release date of the game being pushed forward) 'time' is still the reason why important cut content essential to the plot development of the game had to be cut. Hence the reason why Chris Avellone said that "I do wish there had been more time and I wished I had had more time to work on the end game." The 'and that was my fault' part refers to the fact that he believes he 'probably should have cut another planet' so he could work on the end-game, the HK-Factory and other important content that is missing from the game. I fail to see how I've taken the quote out of context...

 

I would ask the same thing...

 

You said...

 

If I may make a point, Jediphile, some of the cut content contradicts what was in the game. It's entirely possible it was cut because of that, or because Obisidan thought that the Exile's party members killing each other was too dark. It's very likely that some of the content, such as M4-78, was cut due to time constraints. (It does take a while to make a planet.) However, no one can provide any solid proof as to why some things were not in the game.

 

I admit that this quote suggests that you read my post, however Chris Avellone has said himself that he wished he had more time to work on the end game. That implies that Obsidian had no choice but to cut things such as the 'Atton vs. Sion' fight or the 'Visas vs. Handmaiden' fight. Even if time-constraints wasn't the reason why things such as the Exile's party members killing each other was cut (however Chris Avellone's quote and the dialogue files suggest otherwise) they would have added something else in instead of the Exile's companions just magically disappearing towards the end of the game, as if they didn't exist.

 

Besides, the Exile's companions killing each other isn't too dark, it makes sense plotwise since the 'Handmaiden and Visas' clearly dislike each other and 'Atton and Disciple' aren't exactly great mates either too. Besides, the dialogue in the game between Atton/Disciple and Visas/Handmaiden IMO sets the stage for a confrontation/battle between them towards the end of the game...

[The Source]

^^^^

You keep taking things out of context. You either leave out words in your quotes, or you remove them from the whole paragraph.

 

Clearly in post#65: http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost.php?p=2170487&postcount=65 you underlined only a portion of the sentence that you quoted. Instead of using the entire sentence, you took words out of their context. Read the sentence in its entire state.

In the end, I do wish there had been more time and I wished I had had more time to work on the end game, and that was my fault. We did get a lot accomplished in the time we had, and I probably should have cut another planet (the droid planet got the axe). I still think it's a good RPG, we probably should have just made it shorter.[/b]

 

In post#73:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost.php?p=2171440&postcount=73

 

I pointed out where you have errored. When you make an argument, use the entire context to make your case. By not considering the whole sentence, you changed the meaning of what he said.

 

In the end, I do wish there had been more time and I wished I had had more time to work on the end game, and that was my fault. We did get a lot accomplished in the time we had, and I probably should have cut another planet (the droid planet got the axe). I still think it's a good RPG, we probably should have just made it shorter.

http://www.rpgcodex.com/content.php?id=125

 

He is blamming himself for not 'giving himself' enough time to complete the project. This was not a time restraint issue. This was his inability to manage the job, so he can fit it into the time given. I underlined the section that you left out of the evidence you were using. Consider the whole sentence, and the surrounding paragraphs. See post #73 for full context.

 

If this was a time restraint issue, he would have said something similar to:

Lucas Arts cut our deadline down. Since we were still months away from completion, we were not able to get around the time retraint (deadline) we were given.

 

If you read the paragraph again, you will notice he also mentions that he was thinking about removing another planet. Why? Well, he didn't manage his workload to fit the deadline.

 

This was a job management issue - or - Obsidian was very optimistic, so they agreed on a new deadline. Either way, this was a management issue.

 

Chris Avellone agreed to the deadlines.

Chris Avellone didn't adjust the workload to fit the deadlines

Chris Avellone didn't manage the job in a way, which would have allowed them to fix story gaps and edits.

 

This is clearly a manager with inexperience.

 

Truthfully, I would have fired him for not managing the job right.

 

ADD EDIT::

Time is in the equation, but it is not the main reason why KotOR II is suffering from problems. It is all about 'the manager', and his inability to manage the job right.

[The Architect]

^^^^

You keep taking things out of context. You either leave out words in your quotes, or you remove them from the whole paragraph.

 

You underlined only a portion of the sentence that you quoted. Instead of using the entire sentence, you took words out of their context. Read the sentence in its entire state.

 

I pointed out where you have errored. When you make an argument, use the entire context to make your case. By not considering the whole sentence, you changed the meaning of what he said.

 

Your contradicting yourself there, you said "When you make an argument, use the entire context to make your case. By not considering the whole sentence, you changed the meaning of what he said."

 

So if what I'm doing is 'taking the quote out of context' as you claim, then why did you do the same thing? You did this on post 73#: In the end, I do wish there had been more time and I wished I had had more time to work on the end game, and that was my fault. We did get a lot accomplished in the time we had, and I probably should have cut another planet (the droid planet got the axe). I still think it's a good RPG, we probably should have just made it shorter.

 

So if you ask me to 'use the entire context to make my case' next time in an arguement instead of 'not considering the whole sentence', I suggest you do the same. I did not ignore the whole sentence, I was merely pointing out what I thought were the most relevant parts of that sentence to support my case.

 

http://www.rpgcodex.com/content.php?id=125

 

He is blamming himself for not 'giving himself' enough time to complete the project. This was not a time restraint issue. This was his inability to manage the job, so he can fit it into the time given. I underlined the section that you left out of the evidence you were using. Consider the whole sentence, and the surrounding paragraphs. See post #73 for full context.

 

If this was a time restraint issue, he would have said something similar to:

Lucas Arts cut our deadline down. Since we were still months away from completion, we were not able to get around the time retraint (deadline) we were given.

 

If you read the paragraph again, you will notice he also mentions that he was thinking about removing another planet. Why? Well, he didn't manage his workload to fit the deadline.

 

This was a job management issue - or - Obsidian was very optimistic, so they agreed on a new deadline. Either way, this was a management issue.

 

Chris Avellone agreed to the deadlines.

Chris Avellone didn't adjust the workload to fit the deadlines

Chris Avellone didn't manage the job in a way, which would have allowed them to fix story gaps and edits.

 

This is clearly a manager with inexperience.

 

Truthfully, I would have fired him for not managing the job right.

 

ADD EDIT::

Time is in the equation, but it is not the main reason why KotOR II is suffering from problems. It is all about 'the manager', and his inability to manage the job right.

 

Lets examine Chris Avellone's quote as a whole here...

 

In the end, I do wish there had been more time and I wished I had had more time to work on the end game, and that was my fault. We did get a lot accomplished in the time we had, and I probably should have cut another planet (the droid planet got the axe). I still think it's a good RPG, we probably should have just made it shorter.

 

The way I interpret this quote is that Chris Avellone 'wished' (which suggests that he's referring to LA's deadline here, think about it) he had more time to work on the end game.

 

As I've said before, the 'and that was my fault' part refers to the fact that 'he probably should have cut another planet' so he could finish the end game and add in the important content such as the HK-Factory to complete the game from a plot perspective.

 

Hence the term 'we probably should have just made it shorter'. Your claim of 'bad management' is a claim that cannot be supported by facts, it is pure speculation.

 

Because Chris Avellone and Obsidian didn't have a choice. LA dictates the KotOR franchise, not Obsidian or BioWare. They had to agree to the deadline given. That's why Chris Avellone said 'In the end, I do wish there had been more time'. That doesn't sound like what someone who agrees to a deadline would say. It doesn't look like Obsidian had much say on the matter judging by Chris's comments.

 

This also proves that LA dictates this issue, because it's clear that Chris wanted more time, but he never got it did he? Why? Because LA is in charge of the release date of the game, not Obsidian.

 

Besides, they were forced to change their workload because of LA's greedy impatience, of course it was going to effect the final outcome of the game, so it really is a 'time constraint' issue.

 

They never knew the deadline was going to be pushed forward, they only found out fairly late in development, so you can't really blame Obsidian or Chris Avellone for so called 'not giving themselves enough time'. Time is the main reason why KotOR III is suffering from problems, because if it wasn't for LA pushing the deadline forward, Obsidian would have had more 'time' to complete the game. If they didn't finish the game plot-wise by February (the original release date, which was what Obsidian's original workload schedule was based on) only then, would it have been an issue of 'bad management'.

[Darth InSidious]

So - OE were unrealistic and didn't manage to fit LA's deadlines, right?

 

OE were unrealistic, and impractical about how much they could do.

 

Ergo: OE were impractical.

 

Ergo: OE did not manage their time correctly.

 

Ergo: OE mismanaged the creation of the game.

[Jediphile]

Different situation, different time. You can't apply the end of RotJ to the middle of KotOR.

 

Okay. We'll look at ESB instead then. Fair enough

 

Now we see Luke arrive on Cloud City. The last we ever see of his friends is when Leia shouts to him it's a trap and R2 then gets "lost" when a door closes just behind Luke.

 

Then we follow Luke as he fights Vader, we see him lose, get his hand chopped off, hearing Vader is his father, etc. He jumps into the shaft and ends up clinging for dear life beneath Cloud City. No escape from Leia and friends etc. Luke just speaks out to Ben, the Millennium Falcon magically turns up beneath him, he jumps onto it, then flies off to safety in it - roll credits. No escape from Vader and or conversations at the end.

 

Actually that's far closer to KotOR2, since it is very similar to the deux-ex-machine appearance of the Ebon Hawk at the LS end of the game. The major difference is that Luke loses the fight where the Exile wins it, but both are left stranded in a deathtrap situation, where they must be saved by their friends at the last second and totally out of the blue.

 

Is that satisfying?

[The Source]

So - OE were unrealistic and didn't manage to fit LA's deadlines, right?

 

OE were unrealistic, and impractical about how much they could do.

 

Ergo: OE were impractical.

 

Ergo: OE did not manage their time correctly.

 

Ergo: OE mismanaged the creation of the game.

If you ignore what 'The Architect' had done, and read it for what it is. That is the sense that I am getting. To exclued any phrase of sentence would change the intent of what Chris is saying. 'The Architect' is too busy not reading everything, and he is refusing to follow the rules of grammar.

 

(IMO) OE just didn't manage the job well.

 

OE could have been too confident, and may have bit off more than they could chew. (<----I was speculating) This happens to all of us from time to time. I would be more surpirsed if they did got the job done 100% right. Since this was their first venture as a new company, I can understand issues that may have occured behind clossed doors.

 

I am talking about the game's state overall now. I am only focusing on the quote, and not on a specific piece that was removed.

 

I allready made my other case earlier.

 

------------

ADDED EDIT::

I didn't say anything specific, earlier, about why the HK-Factory was removed. I really don't know why this was removed, and I have not seen any evidence that would send me into one specific direction.

[Jediphile]

If you ignore what 'The Architect' had done, and read it for what it is. That is the sense that I am getting. To exclued any phrase of sentence would change the intent of what Chris is saying. 'The Architect' is too busy not reading everything, and he is refusing to follow the rules of grammar.

 

You continue to postulate that The Architect misquotes while failing to point out where he did so. He is quite right to point out that you do just the same thing as he does yourself. And he is not wrong just because he emphasizes other things than you do - you do NOT have a monopoly on the truth or what is "the correct interpretation".

 

And to mention grammer is very poor taste. I could easily do the same in your case, just as someone could for me. It is simply irrelevant to the discussion.

 

(IMO) OE just didn't manage the job well.

 

That is your right, as long as you acknowledge that your opinion isn't any better than anyone else's. I'll freely admit that mine isn't either (which is why I provide arguments and links to support why - you know what they say about opinions...)

[reven0123]

Oh? Do you even know the reason for why that planet was cut? Is time restrictions the only reason why something will be removed?

good point prime.

[Jediphile]

Oh? Do you even know the reason for why that planet was cut? Is time restrictions the only reason why something will be removed?

good point prime.

 

It's not necessarily the only one, but it very often is. Cutting stuff because it "doesn't fit" or "disrupts the flow" can be necessary, but doing it also means that you've wasted valuable time and money producing something that ends up on the cutting floor anyway.

 

There are certainly times when it is essential, but the question is when that is. It happens all the time for movies - hence all those lovely deleted scenes on dvds (I love getting a peek at what the director decided to cut and why), but I'd say it happens less frequently in games than in movies, because in movies, you have to consider the flow of the story - which is not chosen by the consumer - how it fits with background music, how good (or bad) the performances available are, etc. In games this is different because you're not stuck with the performances (you can just reprogram it), the pace is the player's choice and not the developer's, and the background music has to reflect that.

 

There are many, many examples of how stuff had to be cut from movies, even if it's brilliant. Take a look at "Gladiator", where they cut the plotting scene with Derek Jacobi and Connie Nielsen, which I think is the best scene of the movie, because it revealed the female lead's intentions too soon in the plot. Or M. Night Shyamalan, who had to cut his original ending for "The Sixth Sense" (check the dvd). Some of the cut scenes in "Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl" are hilarious, but had to go for pacing reasons, since the movie was already running long.

 

Do we see the same sort of cut stuff in games? No, not usually. Why? Because they're far easier to plot and prepare for. You don't need to take extra scenes, because the location won't be available next week, so most frequently, the end plot is the one that was planned by the story writers, since cutting stuff means wasted efforts for all.

 

The question is why stuff was cut from TSL? Was it for pacing reasons? Was it because it was "running long" (doubtful in any game, methinks)? KotOR1 had cut stuff too, but that material seems to have been mostly redundant to the plot, whereas much cut content in TSL was plot relevant, some of it even essential IMHO. So the reasons for some parts cut from the game does not seem to be for the sake of pacing or redundancy...

[Prime]

It's not necessarily the only one, but it very often is. Cutting stuff because it "doesn't fit" or "disrupts the flow" can be necessary, but doing it also means that you've wasted valuable time and money producing something that ends up on the cutting floor anyway.

But that happens all the time in software development of any kind. There is always stuff that was decided upon in the initial design that was changed or scrapped in the later development stages because it didn't work or line up with the other aspects as they changed. Actually, I can't think of a large project I have worked on where that didn't happen. It isn't always because of time constraints, although that certainly happens a lot as well.

 

There are certainly times when it is essential, but the question is when that is. It happens all the time for movies - hence all those lovely deleted scenes on dvds (I love getting a peek at what the director decided to cut and why), but I'd say it happens less frequently in games than in movies,

Actually, I'd say that it happens just as much or more for games, because not only is stuff potentially removed for story reasons, but technical reasons as well. Remember when they talked about having removable hoods in TSL? Didn't make it in because it was harder technically than they originally thought.

 

because in movies, you have to consider the flow of the story - which is not chosen by the consumer - how it fits with background music, how good (or bad) the performances available are, etc. In games this is different because you're not stuck with the performances (you can just reprogram it), the pace is the player's choice and not the developer's, and the background music has to reflect that.

But isn't that harder? The movie guy can pace the story and make it good because he controls everything and has all the input. The game developer (especially an RPG dev) has to make a story that changes its flow based on how the player plays. He doesn't just have one plot path to consider like the movie guy, but multiple potential plots that all have to link together and make sense. I think that's harder.

 

They still have to worry about pace, but have to make that pace work in multiple scenarios. With all that to consider, I think it would be more likely that story elements would get cut to make everything work in the end. For example, because they may have decided that the overall droid plotline was not working for all story paths that it should be removed. That may have made the droid planet unnecessary.

 

Such a dynamic story would be harder to plan out in the beginning than a single movie plot.

 

Do we see the same sort of cut stuff in games? No, not usually. Why? Because they're far easier to plot and prepare for. You don't need to take extra scenes, because the location won't be available next week, so most frequently, the end plot is the one that was planned by the story writers, since cutting stuff means wasted efforts for all.

Again, there are always cases where stuff you thought would work story-wise or technically may not work when you actually see it in its final form. In RPG games, this issue is made worse when you have to look at all plot paths.

 

The question is why stuff was cut from TSL? Was it for pacing reasons? Was it because it was "running long" (doubtful in any game, methinks)?

Probably all the of the above. Different things can be cut for different reasons.

 

That is really my only point. Some People in general around here seem to think that every little thing that was cut was due to time restrictions. I'm just saying that is not necessarily the case and there are lots of other valid reasons why stuff might be cut. We just don't know in each specific case.

[Emperor Devon]

Okay. We'll look at ESB instead then. Fair enough

 

Now we see Luke arrive on Cloud City. The last we ever see of his friends is when Leia shouts to him it's a trap and R2 then gets "lost" when a door closes just behind Luke. {snip}

 

Not quite. I think a better portrayal would be a DS version. Luke gives into the dark side, and defeats Vader. Instead of his hand, Vader's body falls into the abyss. Luke knows that he's defeated a powerful enemy, but the Emperor, who is the greater threat to his power, is still out there. With the knowledge of what the third movie will be about, the credits roll. Is that a better comparison?

[The Architect]

You continue to postulate that The Architect misquotes while failing to point out where he did so. He is quite right to point out that you do just the same thing as he does yourself. And he is not wrong just because he emphasizes other things than you do - you do NOT have a monopoly on the truth or what is "the correct interpretation".

 

And to mention grammer is very poor taste. I could easily do the same in your case, just as someone could for me. It is simply irrelevant to the discussion.

 

That is your right, as long as you acknowledge that your opinion isn't any better than anyone else's. I'll freely admit that mine isn't either (which is why I provide arguments and links to support why - you know what they say about opinions...)

 

Thanks Jediphile

 

As Jediphile has said, you continue to claim that I misquoted, but you cannot support that fact, as you have failed to point out where I did so. I don't find this to be polite at all. Stop accusing me of something I haven't done!

 

If what I've done (highliting a particular part of a quote by Chris Avellone) is taking a quote 'out of context', then as I've mentioned on my previous post, you are contradicting yourself, as you have done the same thing (as I've pointed out in my previous post).

 

If you ignore what 'The Architect' had done, and read it for what it is. That is the sense that I am getting. To exclued any phrase of sentence would change the intent of what Chris is saying. 'The Architect' is too busy not reading everything, and he is refusing to follow the rules of grammar.

 

What? You've accused me of 'taking a quote out of context' and now your accusing me of 'excluding the phrase of a sentence'. What did I exclude? I never left out, ignored, nor deleted anything from Chris's quote. Stop falsely accusing me of things I haven't done.

 

In case you hadn't noticed, in my previous post, I actually went over Chris's entire quote. I addressed the points you highlighted out before too, so I fail to see what I've done wrong. You still have not responded to the points I made in my previous post regarding my full interpretation of Chris's quote either.

 

 

(IMO) OE just didn't manage the job well.

 

OE could have been too confident, and may have bit off more than they could chew. (<----I was speculating) This happens to all of us from time to time. I would be more surpirsed if they did got the job done 100% right. Since this was their first venture as a new company, I can understand issues that may have occured behind clossed doors.

 

I am talking about the game's state overall now. I am only focusing on the quote, and not on a specific piece that was removed.

 

I allready made my other case earlier.

 

Well, I'm glad your acknowledging the fact that your speculating (as I am myself). I still think it's unfair to assume that Obsidian managed the job badly, as if it was entirely their fault, and not LA's (why? Because you cannot prove if 'bad management' was the reason why the game ended up the way it did, none of us can prove that. Obsidian 'may' be partly at fault, but we don't know for sure).

 

I still place the blame on LA myself, as Chris has already said he wished he had more time, but LA never gave any more time to Obsidian. LA could have given Obsidian extra time to finish the game from a plot perspective, but they didn't. How anyone would expect Obsidian to complete the game in the short time they were given is beyond me.

 

We'll never know if Obsidian would of completed the game properly by February 2005 (the originally intended release date). If they still hadn't of completed the game by then, then yes it would of been their fault. But to accuse Obsidian of 'bad management' is unfair, and cannot be supported by facts.

 

------------

ADDED EDIT::

I didn't say anything specific, earlier, about why the HK-Factory was removed. I really don't know why this was removed, and I have not seen any evidence that would send me into one specific direction.

 

Although it can't be proven why the HK-Factory was removed, use your common sense. The HK-Factory must have been removed for time-constraints; as it's actually quite major from a plot perspective, to argue otherwise would be folly.

 

GO-TO and the HK's were strongly bonded to this story. I'd find it unlikely Obsidian could have removed it the way they did for any other reason than having to cut down quickly. If they had time and it was a creative decision the ties to the plot would have been adjusted accordingly, it wasn't. This suggests that they did not have a choice, because of time-constraints.

[Emperor Devon]

This suggests that they did not have a choice, because of time-constraints.

 

Even though it could only take a few minutes to implement?

[The Architect]

Even though it could only take a few minutes to implement?

 

Really? Are you sure? How do you know how long it would of taken for them to implement? I find it hard to believe it would have only taken them a few minutes. Even so, that does not explain why everything else associated with the 'HK-50' plot was removed from the game.

 

If your suggesting that time-constraints was not the reason why the HK-Factory was removed because it would of only taken them a few minutes to implement, then surely if it was for creative reasons, they would have taken out everything else associated with the 'HK-50' plot.

 

If it only took a few minutes to implement the HK-Factory, then wouldn't it only take a few minutes (or something along the lines of a short amount of time) to remove everything else associated with the 'HK-50' plot? This is what I don't understand.

[Emperor Devon]

Really? Are you sure? How do you know how long it would of taken for them to implement?

 

Perhaps because I've made dialogue mods before, and implemented that scene in my game once?

 

If it only took a few minutes to implement the HK-Factory,

 

The HK factory is far tool large to have been done in minutes. That I think might have been due to time restraints.

[The Architect]

Perhaps because I've made dialogue mods before, and implemented that scene in my game once?

 

The HK factory is far tool large to have been done in minutes. That I think might have been due to time restraints.

 

Oh, I thought you were suggesting before that the HK-Factory could of been implemented in a few minutes, my mistake. So, what scene are you talking about exactly?

[Emperor Devon]

The Goto/Remote scene.

[Jediphile]

^^^^

 

The GOTO/Remote scene - meaning the one where HK-47 appears - could probably be done easily, I agree.

 

But the problem with it is that you need to have the HK factory in the game to establish the plot context, or you have no idea where all those HK-51 units suddenly came from. So it always seemed obvious to me that since the HK factory had to go - presumably due to the sooner deadline - then the scene we talk about here had to be cut as well. Otherwise you have a highly "deux ex machina"-scene, where HK-47 and his brethren suddenly spring in from nowhere to save the plot, and that's pretty bad storytelling. I can't fault Chris Avellone for not wanting that, since I wouldn't either. I mean, given the choice between very poor plot and "loose end"-plot, which would you choose? And why did Obsidian end up in that situation anyway? MacLeodGR seems to think that it was due to their own mismanagement, but to me it's obvious that cutting two months from the deadline will obviously result in this sort of thing, especially in this case, where the schedule was already pushed beyond belief. Considering the amount of time Obsidian ended up really having, I find it to be a remarkable achievement that they were able to complete as much as they did. And when I think of what TSL might have been, had Obsidian been given the original deadline by LA, I clench my fists...

[Emperor Devon]

We can't say. But I never found the HK plot to be that important to the game. All you get are three attacks and a bit of dialogue. When finding the Jedi Masters, wondering the Sith were and where Revan was the first time I played the game, I completely overlooked the factory.

[Jediphile]

^^^^

 

Well, duh - we all "overlooked" it since it's cut from the game

 

My point is that the while the Remote vs. GOTO scene, the subsequent HK-47 vs. GOTO scene cannot be, since it would require the HK factory first to establish the context. Otherwise the HK-51s spring right out of nowhere with utter convenience, which is always disappointing plotwise. Clearly Obsidian was aware of that and so cut it. As you say yourself, why else did they cut it, when it would have taken very little time to do? Because it would have required that the HK factory was also finished, and that would have taken a lot more time on a schedule that LA had just cut by two months. It all seems rather obvious to me...

[Emperor Devon]

Well, duh - we all "overlooked" it since it's cut from the game

 

There was how HK mentioned the factory in his dialogue, but as I said, I overlooked it.

 

It all seems rather obvious to me...

 

Still wouldn't work. Obsidian could've implemented a scene with HK shooting Goto quite easily. They wouldn't have even needed to record new VOs, since all they would've had to do was remove the parts about the other HKs. The outcome of that scene seemed obvious enough to me, and as Obsidian didn't make a cutscene to show it happening, it did to them as well.

[Jediphile]

Obsidian could've implemented a scene with HK shooting Goto quite easily. They wouldn't have even needed to record new VOs, since all they would've had to do was remove the parts about the other HKs. The outcome of that scene seemed obvious enough to me, and as Obsidian didn't make a cutscene to show it happening, it did to them as well.

 

Well, if Obsidian could have made such a scene quite easily, then why isn't that scene in the game?

 

It seems to me that no matter how you look at that situation, you'll always end up with the changed deadline leading to cut plot.

[Emperor Devon]

Well, if Obsidian could have made such a scene quite easily, then why isn't that scene in the game?

 

Who knows. As I've said, I implemented the original scene into my game once in a matter of minutes. A modified version that would fit in with the plot would take even less. Time constraints cannot be the reason for it.

[Darth InSidious]

I may be of interest to peeps that I found in k_inc_force OEI notes from late 2003. Which would seem to imply that the old theory of time is no longer true...

[Prime]

Well, if Obsidian could have made such a scene quite easily, then why isn't that scene in the game?

Could be many reasons. Possibly because changes to the overall story resulted in that segment no longer fitting properly. And thus it was dropped as ot was no longer required.

 

It seems to me that no matter how you look at that situation, you'll always end up with the changed deadline leading to cut plot.

But that is your default answer to why anything was cut to the game. There are lots of other potential reasons why such changes are made...