When do u think K3 should start

[Jediphile]

The difficulties that can arise from implementing this kind of feature are quite 'hard'.

 

Not really. It depends a great deal on how you implement it. If, in this case, you let the alignment/gender choices of Revan and exile have no connection to each other, then most of your problems go away right there, because you have Revan's fate here and exile's fate over there. They're not connected, so you have four for Revan and four for exile. That's half the work cut right there.

 

This would be quite difficult to pull off, and almost impossible to implement in the game without it being instantly realised by the players of the previous games for what it is.

 

I have stated several times before about this kind of feature... How do you go about this without having a pre-game quiz, or having to look at mug shots sometime in the game. Both are not very good options and are very transparent. You don't want this kind of detracting 'feature' in a game.

 

That's entirely subjective, though. You may consider this a detracting feature, but I would consider it a far more detracting feature to simply cut Revan and exile from the game just to avoid it. Even if what you describe here is annoying - and that is no admission - I would still consider that far more desirable any day of the week than just killing the characters off in the background as a matter of course for the sake of convenience.

 

Comparing the TSL lightsaber selection (which is limited by the way to only colors and the in-game limited hilt styles) to having to select a 'face' for Revan and the Exile is not even remotely equal, they are two different things and implementation would be drastically different.

 

Honestly, I don't really see why...

[HK-1576]

this was just a thought while i was playing Battlefront, i was in the middle of destoying droids in space when i read some of the posts on this page.

I think that would be the way to go (fighting the True Sith), but maybe instead of beginning the story right after the events of Kotor II, you begin maybe in the prequel years as a normal Jedi Knight, then you are sent on a mission and you learn you are a descendant of one of the main characters of the previous two games (Revan or the Exile). Then right about the time the Clone Wars are about to begin (when Obi-Wan and Anakin are still on Coruscant guarding the Senator) a strange fleet of ships enter the space above Coruscant. Then instead of the Clone Wars against the CIS, the Grand Republic Army is never discovered on Kamino, and all of the systems and Corporations (like the Trade Federation) and the Jedi have to band together to defeat the True Sith who have been waiting for their chance to strike at the Republic for nearly over 4,000 years (and because the Clone Wars doesn't begin, Sidious never takes over the Republic....yet) He takes on his role as the Chancellor, and after kicking True Sith butt for roughly 30 hours of gameplay by the end of the game (if you followed the proper Star Wars canon path, because their always is a *True Ending*) Sidious takes advantage of the weakened Republic, the Jedi try to stop him but the war weakened them, and Anakin turns into Darth Vader so on and so forth.

[Robb Stark]

I agree with Redhawk about the undesirability of the pre-game quiz or 'build your Revan and Exile' options. I would rather the story incorporate Revan and the Exile in a way such that the road K2 took is enough to affect the story. Revan and the Exile have to be major "forces" in either setting up or driving the plot, but making them interactive characters--I think that good writing could easily overcome that. Or have them both corrupted by the DS forces they encountered in the Unknown Regions (an event that could have been foreshadowed by the final vision in Ludo Kressh's tomb?), masked and/or hooded such that their K1 and 2 appearances are irrelevant and their previous accomplishments are only relevant with regard to mentioning past events.

 

As far as the time period goes, I think allowing enough time to pass to set up the re-emergence of the Jedi Order would be beneficial. Three to five years would be enough I think. We don't need a fully functional Order, but for faith to be restored in the Jedi, the victory over the True Sith needs to be seen as a Jedi victory, and not just one of Revan, the Exile, or other individual heroes.

[khawk]

The difficulties that can arise from implementing this kind of feature are quite 'hard'.

I don't understand why that would be hard. Revan has one or two goals, and so does the Exile. I think the only thing that matters is alignment. They still both want to destroy the true sith, either to rule the galaxy themselves or to save it.

 

This would be quite difficult to pull off, and almost impossible to implement in the game without it being instantly realised by the players of the previous games for what it is.

 

I have stated several times before about this kind of feature... How do you go about this without having a pre-game quiz, or having to look at mug shots sometime in the game. Both are not very good options and are very transparent. You don't want this kind of detracting 'feature' in a game.

Okay, so for those who haven't played Kotor I and II there could be an option like "Create generic character" which sets a preselected LSM Revan and LSF Exile in the game, since that's canon. Why would it be a problem. For us however we should have the option to select "our" characters.

 

Comparing the TSL lightsaber selection (which is limited by the way to only colors and the in-game limited hilt styles) to having to select a 'face' for Revan and the Exile is not even remotely equal, they are two different things and implementation would be drastically different{/quote]

 

What I meant to say is that from a programmers point of view it looks like almost the same thing.

 

Not "Very simple" as you put it, to implement 'Revan and the Exile's faces' in a potential K3 would be a lot more difficult that you think.

 

IMO, not really. You could simply see a selection screen, maybe a help popup stating: "Revan was the main character in Knights of the Old Republic part I. Would you like to customize this character?"

A newcomer would obviously say "No" and the game would simply continue with a preset LSM Revan. But we get the ability to customize our characters by showing some faces.

 

Also, in Kotor II, there are a lot of people who actually have a face that looks identical to say "one of the exile's faces". If you have selected "that particular face", then the NPC's would change to another face. Only now, we are in control.

[jesusfreaks_90]

I like your idea Khawk. But here is my idea...

 

First they develop a patch for K1 and K2 that lets K3 scan your previous saves. The patch would track all of your story changing decisions. Then they give you an option to choose one of your competed saves (if you have any) and then implement them to K3. Ta Da. I would be cool if they could use Khawks idea and mine so you don’t have to answer a quiz or you can if you want to.

 

It isn't that great of an idea, but its my 2 cents

[khawk]

That works fine for me too but there might be people who removed the previous games from their harddrives.

[Jediphile]

That works fine for me too but there might be people who removed the previous games from their harddrives.

 

Besides, it would be a big problem for the Xbox version.

[SilentScope001]

It is easy for them to do the Quiz. And it is easy for players who don't want to take the quiz to refuse it.

 

Jedi Master: "Hey, let's do a quiz!"

K3 Character: "Quiz? QUIZ? NO WAY MASTER! I'm...busy. Yes, busy. Not lazy."

 

When that happens, the Jedi Master fumes, and canon is set. LSM Revan and LSF Exile.

 

Setting alignment is easy via the quiz. Faces...no way. No need. Just give Exile a mask, please! Maybe Nihilus' mask?

 

Though, while I am a great supporter of letting players choose the alignment and gender...why not also kill off Revan and Exile as well? That could make the 3rd player interesting and make the True Sith more scary. Too conterversial, I admit, but it is an option I can accept. As long as I choose the alignment of Revan and Exile as well.

[RedHawke]

Not really. It depends a great deal on how you implement it. If, in this case, you let the alignment/gender choices of Revan and exile have no connection to each other, then most of your problems go away right there, because you have Revan's fate here and exile's fate over there. They're not connected, so you have four for Revan and four for exile. That's half the work cut right there.

Hmm... people tend to think this would be easy to do, it isn't. With the complaints made about TSL being unfinished, cut content, etc. adding this kind of 16 variations of depth while neat, would take some time to do. It isn't "easy" like was stated.

 

It would also be obvious when done (obvious is destracting BTW), Atton's questioning about Revan in TSL was pushing it a little. But I do agree with you that that cutting the questions down to 8 or less would be a neccissary evil for a potential K3. TSL already set the stage for this at any rate.

 

That's entirely subjective, though. You may consider this a detracting feature, but I would consider it a far more detracting feature to simply cut Revan and exile from the game just to avoid it.

Here I was addressing the inclusion of seeing Revan or the Exile's faces in KotOR III and implementing that type of feature is very much going to be a detracting thing.

 

Revan had that genderless masked model which was used in TSL for that 'vision' cutscene in the Korriban tomb, but the same can't be done with the Exile.

 

Implementing 'mug shots' or a pre-game quiz is not a game detracting feature for you? It sure would be to me.

 

Even if what you describe here is annoying - and that is no admission - I would still consider that far more desirable any day of the week than just killing the characters off in the background as a matter of course for the sake of convenience.

Sorry, but this all has nothing really to do with what I was addressing in my post. I never advocated "killing the characters off in the background". Nor anything done "for the sake of convenience".

 

Honestly, I don't really see why...

They are different, the lightsaber selection in TSL was two dialog questions... hilt (Single or Double), and color. These two questions by Atton in TSL were subtle but obvious for what their purpose was later on in the game when you get to Atris. The Revan questions in TSL were equally simple, albeit a little obvious.

 

Choosing Revan and the Exile's faces (From what 24 or so selections each) is drastically different and far more complex. Not to mention the limited ways you have to implement this in the game.

 

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But addressing what you are saying here JP, I do fully agree with you. Indeed the fates of Revan and the Exile will have to be mentioned/addressed in a potential K3 in some shape or form. But I don't personally think we will 'see' them, but I do fully expect some amounts of in-game dialog about them.

 

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I don't understand why that would be hard. Revan has one or two goals, and so does the Exile. I think the only thing that matters is alignment. They still both want to destroy the true sith, either to rule the galaxy themselves or to save it.

Actually you need to set gender and alignment, everything else can be factored from that.

 

Okay, so for those who haven't played Kotor I and II there could be an option like "Create generic character" which sets a preselected LSM Revan and LSF Exile in the game, since that's canon. Why would it be a problem. For us however we should have the option to select "our" characters.

 

IMO, not really. You could simply see a selection screen, maybe a help popup stating: "Revan was the main character in Knights of the Old Republic part I. Would you like to customize this character?"

A newcomer would obviously say "No" and the game would simply continue with a preset LSM Revan. But we get the ability to customize our characters by showing some faces.

Sorry but you would be wasting prescious development funds and time for a feature that many wouldn't even use. Believe it or not, a size-able chunk of the audience could actually care less for 'seeing' Revan or the Exile again and would rather have more development time spent on things like story or content. Or converting the game to the WEG D6 Star Wars game system... curse that wretched D20 system!

 

If it were truely that "simple" and such a much needed feature they would have done so in TSL, but why wouldn't they you may ask? It detracts from the game to do this. You may not see it now, but it really does.

 

Also once the game is over they aren't really 'your' characters anymore, they are now the providence of the ones making the next installment.

 

What I meant to say is that from a programmers point of view it looks like almost the same thing.

It isn't... it is very different. More selections = more work. Needing visuals for selecting faces compounds this problem.

 

Also, in Kotor II, there are a lot of people who actually have a face that looks identical to say "one of the exile's faces". If you have selected "that particular face", then the NPC's would change to another face. Only now, we are in control.

The NPC's having the same or similar faces is something that should have been addressed, I agree. But what you are asking for in selecting a 'face' and needing to actually 'see' Revan or the Exile in K3 is basically unneccissary.

 

But if you feel really strongly about needing this type of feature khawk then what I say about this shouldn't matter to you anyway.

 

Edit: Hmm... seems we also are off-topic with all this too... doh!

[Masgrtgr]

Though, while I am a great supporter of letting players choose the alignment and gender...why not also kill off Revan and Exile as well? That could make the 3rd player interesting and make the True Sith more scary. Too conterversial, I admit, but it is an option I can accept. As long as I choose the alignment of Revan and Exile as well.

 

Cop outs are bad.

 

And really I don't know about you guys but I think it would be hard for the writers to come up with a good excuse as to why Revan and Exile couldn't beat the True Sith but some random inexperienced Padawan is somehow capable of beating them without making said Padawan a god modding Mary Sue.

[SilentScope001]

And really I don't know about you guys but I think it would be hard for the writers to come up with a good excuse as to why Revan and Exile couldn't beat the True Sith but some random inexperienced Padawan is somehow capable of beating them without making said Padawan a god modding Mary Sue.

 

1) Padawan has power of Manlipuation. He's a Manlipuative Bastard. Revan and Exile can do heavy-duty fighting, but it is the Padawan that can break the will of the True Sith.

 

2) He's a mere puppet, working for the Force. He's a Force Slave, meaning that he is just as powerful as Revan and Exile, not more so. I can see the designers of K3 claim that Revan, Exile, and The Padawan had to work together to blow up the True Sith, thereby evalating the True Sith to god-like powers, which is quite absurd.

===

Maybe we should stick to the topic of what year K3 should start? Maybe 5 years from now?

[Jediphile]

I can see the designers of K3 claim that Revan, Exile, and The Padawan had to work together to blow up the True Sith, thereby evalating the True Sith to god-like powers, which is quite absurd.

 

They should not be god-like, no, but saying that Revan, exile and a new pc must pool their efforts to defeat the true Sith does not make them god-like. That would just be three jedi. Even if the true Sith are just a few hundred Sith, they would be very, very difficult to defeat for so few jedi. Heck, you could even throw in all companion jedi of the first two games and the jedi who left the order, and the odds would still be terribly against the Jedi.

 

Maybe we should stick to the topic of what year K3 should start? Maybe 5 years from now?

 

Too long IMHO. I'd say anywhere from two hours to two years after TSL.

[GarfieldJL]

We don't necessarily have to run into Revan or the Exile in KotOR 3, or there are ways that things can be done that you never get to meet to see them, there is all sorts of ways to do that.

 

Anyways, I think Atton will have to be in KotOR 3, cause he'd have a reason to go looking for the Exile and/or Revan.

[khawk]

Well, I admit I am sometimes stubborn but I think convincing people why implementing faces via a quiz is so difficult takes a little more then "it is more difficult then you think". At least to me.

In Kotor II, it simply wasn't necessary to select a face for Revan. If it is in Kotor III, yes, it is some (or even a lot) more work but it is worth it. I just hope the developers now that. And off course, there are positions for 4 (expensive) voice actors.

But the alternative? Killing of Revan and the Exile? Then it would be assuming that the new main character is more powerful then both of them.

Because we also both know that both characters are simply not stupid. They do not fall in a sith trap so easily!

Or giving them masks? Ha, spend some more time and money on the project and you have a lot more fans buying the game when it comes out. If it is "another" rushed game I think a lot of people would simply wait a few months or maybe a year before they buy it. Pretty cheap then huh.

 

O well, nobody said (yet) that showing Revan's and the Exile's faces is impossible. So, let's just hope that we actually can select their faces! Simply because as we all know it is possible.

[SilentScope001]

They should not be god-like, no, but saying that Revan, exile and a new pc must pool their efforts to defeat the true Sith does not make them god-like.

 

No, I mean it makes the True Sith look god-like. That's the point, sure, but I dislike it. I don't want the True Sith to become overpowered people, that will only fuel fanboyism, and I hate that.

 

Or giving them masks? Ha, spend some more time and money on the project and you have a lot more fans buying the game when it comes out. If it is "another" rushed game I think a lot of people would simply wait a few months or maybe a year before they buy it. Pretty cheap then huh.

 

I'll call your bluff.

 

People Who Will Buy Complete Game to see Revan and Exile...Dead: A lot of People, minus a few people who are upset that Revan and Exile are dead. I'll predict about 75-90% of fans.

 

People Who Will Buy Complete Game to see Revan and Exile, In a Mask: A lot of People

 

People Who Will Buy Complete Game to See Revan and Exile, Without a Mask: Those Exact Same People Who Will Buy the Game to See Revan and Exile with a Mask. I doubt nobody will boycott the game just because they don't see Revan and Exile's faces.

 

Giving Revan and Exile masks allow for us to determine what their faces is in our mind, and it is less artifical than choosing their faces. Why even bother anyway? It's a waste of code, for a feature that few people even care about.

 

And what about if Revan and Exile falls to the Dark Side and have DS transistions. You have to place in brand new faces to represent their 'corruption'...and in the end, Masks are so much better. I would rather have Revan and Exile wear Masks so they can focus more on improving the rest of the story.

 

*slaps face for realizing he is off topic*

 

Jediphile: 5 years between KOTOR and TSL is quite, well, long, but it allows for a whole lot of changes to occur. 5 years between TSL and K3 means that the developers have more room to deal with the crisis, and it makes it a bit more reasonable that a brand new Jedi/Dark Jedi Order get rebuilt during that time.

[Jediphile]

No, I mean it makes the True Sith look god-like. That's the point, sure, but I dislike it. I don't want the True Sith to become overpowered people, that will only fuel fanboyism, and I hate that.

 

I don't get it...

 

The point to me seems to be that the true Sith have spent years to not just destabilize the Republic but also to crumble the jedi order. Both have succeeded. The jedi order is virtually extinct after TSL. Sure, there are the exile's companions, whom Kreia calls the "lost jedi", but they are only five or six people at the most. Even if you add all of Revan's companions to that, you still have only ten jedi if you count Revan and exile as well. Those ten can be as powerful as they like - they are still hopelessly outnumbered if they are just a few hundred true Sith of merely average power in the force. Heck, even if you add all remaining of those hundred jedi Kreia mentions survived the civil war (and we know several of those have died since), the odds are still hopelessly stacked against the jedi and the republic if the true Sith are a mere 500 or so force-users. That's the point. They true Sith have no need to be particularly uber-powerful, because they'll wipe the floor with the shatteres that remains of the jedi.

 

Jediphile: 5 years between KOTOR and TSL is quite, well, long, but it allows for a whole lot of changes to occur. 5 years between TSL and K3 means that the developers have more room to deal with the crisis, and it makes it a bit more reasonable that a brand new Jedi/Dark Jedi Order get rebuilt during that time.

 

True, but it doesn't make much sense for the true Sith to wait that long. At the end of TSL, the competing Sith triumverate is destroyed, the jedi are virtually extinct, and the Republic is about to collapse. There will never be a better time to invade.

[SilentScope001]

The point to me seems to be that the true Sith have spent years to not just destabilize the Republic but also to crumble the jedi order. Both have succeeded. The jedi order is virtually extinct after TSL. Sure, there are the exile's companions, whom Kreia calls the "lost jedi", but they are only five or six people at the most. Even if you add all of Revan's companions to that, you still have only ten jedi if you count Revan and exile as well. Those ten can be as powerful as they like - they are still hopelessly outnumbered if they are just a few hundred true Sith of merely average power in the force. Heck, even if you add all remaining of those hundred jedi Kreia mentions survived the civil war (and we know several of those have died since), the odds are still hopelessly stacked against the jedi and the republic if the true Sith are a mere 500 or so force-users. That's the point. They true Sith have no need to be particularly uber-powerful, because they'll wipe the floor with the shatteres that remains of the jedi.

 

I can understand, but something in it does make me just a bit iffy. I can see fanboys claiming True Sith to be so uber-powerful, if only to justify the power levels of Revan, Exile, and the Padawan.

 

True, but it doesn't make much sense for the true Sith to wait that long. At the end of TSL, the competing Sith triumverate is destroyed, the jedi are virtually extinct, and the Republic is about to collapse. There will never be a better time to invade.

 

Well, Revan already fled into the Unknown Regions. We could assume he has bought some time for a brand new Order to be formed. By the time Revan is defeated and the True Sith has recovered, the Padawan can come in to save the day.

[Marauder's Fury]

About ten years after TSL would do, I suppose. That would give the Lost Jedi some time to train properly and become potent Force wielders and sages. In the meantime, let Revan and Exile do their best to delay the inevitable True Sith assault. With a clever writing, you don't even need to get into previous alignments of the pair, since fending off the True Sith will be in their best interest, no matter what their alignments were.

 

As for their genders... Obviously how difficult determining them would be depends on the part they'll play in the game.

[Samurai DD]

Of course that after KOTOR II. BUT, I think it would be interesting, if we would play as Revan or like, a "new" companion to him so that we can choose our own path, that it starts while KOTOR II is taking place and advances to after it, Revan encounters the Exile, etc.

[Canderous_ordo1]

well i think it should be after k2 well if you think about it k2 got a lot of ends to tie up and i think the game would probley could be made longer so after k2 but you visit some planets that was in k1

[Samurai DD]

Well, assuming I understood you, I agree, but as I said before, another option that also ties a lot of loose endings is starting while the events of KOTOR II are taking place and forward up to after it.

[Phantasmgrl91]

after K2, not to long after