The experience system & skills and abilities thread

[Sushi_CW]

I think a simple system where longer swings (more frames) is inversely proportional to damage would be enough to differentiate the styles. Being able to hit more often should mean hitting less hard, and visa versa. Hockney's idea of ordering them blue, cyan, yellow, purple, red sounds good to me.

[Maxstate]

I don't.

 

We already kinda had that with the bigger and slower styles doing more damage, it didn't offer you with any kind of customization effect and didn't distinct your persona and character from others' characters. Our saber system is already top-notch, nothing else here that can beat it. Still if we want to go down the path of customization we need something like this.

 

Also, it's personal preference. I like the Forms but I'm not gonna bug Razor to get them ingame if he doesn't want too. BUT I would like to see more saber customization, more difference in damage, precision, speed, more difference in feats, getting abilities through saber styles.. that kinda thing. Currently, all Jedi have access to all the styles.

Later on, in 0.1.0 I'd like to see that all Jedi can pick 3 styles and upgrade those styles, be it with the Forms or not. Just adding simple differences in damage and speed isn't going to run well with the huge, customizable exp system and complex saber system we have right now.

 

Now Ace's post got me thinking, what if we could add different perks based on the Forms in the "Saber selection" menu just like we did with the Merc skills in the Profile menu? Not just that but what about making skills named "Precision sabering", or "Advanced Jedi Defense" or "Anatomy knowledge" that you can buy from the menu with each it's own perk (and weakness if necessary) ?

 

For example "precision sabering" could get you skills based loosely on Makashi (it would make sense) like the ability to deal more damage to unparried strikes or deal more back damage? Precision sabering would just be a Level 1 skill in a series of Makashi-based skills, as an example the second skill would be "Dueler's precision" or something like that which would upgrade the perk and/or add another one similar to it. (I'm just spitting out names and ideas that seem like good additions to me )

"Anatomy knowledge" would give you 'knowledge of vital organ locations' and thusly for example do more damage to unarmed foes?

 

Also I'd really like these skills to be bound to one style at a time, I really don't see someone using Red style or Djem-So as a precision style. If it's not possible I can live with it though, just saying.

 

Razor, could you try implementing one of those things I mentioned above for us on the Code server so we can see if it works correctly? Pwease?

[Tanqexe]

Also, it's personal preference. I like the Forms but I'm not gonna bug Razor to get them ingame if he doesn't want too. BUT I would like to see more saber customization, more difference in damage, precision, speed, more difference in feats, getting abilities through saber styles.. that kinda thing. Currently, all Jedi have access to all the styles.

Later on, in 0.1.0 I'd like to see that all Jedi can pick 3 styles and upgrade those styles, be it with the Forms or not. Just adding simple differences in damage and speed isn't going to run well with the huge, customizable exp system and complex saber system we have right now.

 

Now Ace's post got me thinking, what if we could add different perks based on the Forms in the "Saber selection" menu just like we did with the Merc skills in the Profile menu? Not just that but what about making skills named "Precision sabering", or "Advanced Jedi Defense" or "Anatomy knowledge" that you can buy from the menu with each it's own perk (and weakness if necessary) ?

 

For example "precision sabering" could get you skills based loosely on Makashi (it would make sense) like the ability to deal more damage to unparried strikes or deal more back damage? Precision sabering would just be a Level 1 skill in a series of Makashi-based skills, as an example the second skill would be "Dueler's precision" or something like that which would upgrade the perk and/or add another one similar to it. (I'm just spitting out names and ideas that seem like good additions to me )

"Anatomy knowledge" would give you 'knowledge of vital organ locations' and thusly for example do more damage to unarmed foes?

 

Also I'd really like these skills to be bound to one style at a time, I really don't see someone using Red style or Djem-So as a precision style. If it's not possible I can live with it though, just saying.

 

Razor, could you try implementing one of those things I mentioned above for us on the Code server so we can see if it works correctly? Pwease?

 

I've been working on the Saber Skills System conceptually for a while, actually, just haven't been able to finish it due to a miriad of IRL stuff. I had a nice talk with Razor last night about it and it follows his idea of full skill customizability combined with the use of Forms.

 

Basically what I've done is that instead of limiting skills to particular Forms and their corresponding styles, I've conceptually grouped aspects of the OJP saber system into seven categories. They are:

 

Saber Proficiency: (tentative, might meld this in with Form VI instead)

Form I: Constitution (health and fatigue)

Form II: Parries (defensive and offensive use)

Form III: Blaster deflection and saber blocking

Form IV: Acrobatics

Form V: Brute strength

Form VI: Cross-class skills to buff up dual/staff

Form VII: Feints

 

Basically the way this would have to work would be that it'd be expensive to purchase too many perks, so you'll have to get flaws to get back some skill points so that you can invest more. This way people can basically create their own styles of combat while others who really dig the whole Forms thing can invest their points and have a Form focus. Mastery comes from having all the perks/flaws of one form selected. Mastering a form will magnify the perks/flaws of a style and also unlock a mastery skill.

 

I'm thinking that deadlier skills like those from Form VII should be purchased if you invest enough skill points in perks/flaws to master more than one form to access...basically a more elaborate version of the current saber attack/defense tier levels. I'm also wondering if it'd be better to have penalties for skills used outside of one style or give bonuses for use in one style instead. I'm also a bit iffy on the saber proficiency section; maybe those perks/flaws can meld in with Form VI to give more incentive in getting dual/staff?

 

I'm currently making an interactive webpage to display the skills that I've thought up so far (with some incentive from Maxstate's ideas) and show how the skills would be arranged, but basically each category will have three perks and three flaws except for Form I which only has two of each. To master a Form you have to select all the perks and flaws in that row. However, depending on how many skill points you have available, you can choose to customize however you want; you can have an acrobatic turtler or a guy who can comfortably parry on the defensive and then hurt you like hell with overhead chops -- lots of possibilities. You can do Soresu moves while in a Djem-So (Red) style, but to make the skills in a category really shine you'll have to use styles corresponding to the skill's category.

 

In my opinion the skill points distribution will have to be just enough to only allow mastery of up to three styles when a player is high-level. One way to accomplish this would be to replace the Saber Attack/Defense tiers in the Powers menu to "Saber Combat," and let's say we can have 6 levels there. Suppose that the first level of Saber Combat costs 8 points; you select it and 8 points gets deducted from your skill points pool. In doing so you're allowed access to the lightsaber and you'll be able to unlock the Saber Skills menu (thinking along the lines of the MBII skills menu here). When you open the Saber Skills menu, you can see that there are 8 points that you can spend in your saber skill points pool. So basically you've invested 8 points to choose the kinds of saber skills that you want and gain more saber skill points by purchasing flaws. As you gain more skill points from killing people, you'll have enough skill points to invest in Saber Combat lvl 2, 3, and so on. Each additional level will give you more saber skill points corresponding to the number of skill points you needed to invest for each additional level. Saber Combat 1 and 2 will allow you the use of one style, 3 and 4 gives you two styles that you can select, and 5 and 6 will give you three styles. With each additional level you won't have to purchase as many flaws to grab the perks that you want, so it's kind of simulates an increasing proficiency with certain styles of combat.

 

Razor's said that the above idea would be difficult to implement because the UI code is messy, so another alternative is to merge the perks/flaws into skills with both advantages and drawbacks. In this scheme you'll just have 3 levels in Saber Combat, where each level gives you access to one more style. Just like the first system, once you buy Saber Combat 1 you'll have access to the lightsaber as well as the Saber Skills Menu. The saber skills will be purchased using whatever skill points you have available.

 

Another alternative is to combine the two systems and purchase individual perks and flaws using the general skill points. I'm a bit conflicted about this because nothing will stop somebody from only purchasing perks; I'm skeptical about letting high level XP players have no sort of weakness to exploit so that much lower level XP players can even stand a chance. The flaws in my opinion have to be bought to introduce an additional element of strategy as to how a high level player fights. It'll also force the player to think how they want to invest in the Saber Skills System and allow low level XP players to win by fighting smart while keeping high level players on their toes, because...well, when you're someone with 54 DP and you're up against somebody with, say, 170 DP, you'll feel like you're barely getting in any punches.

 

Anyway I've managed to think up the perks and Form mastery skills, but I haven't been able to work on the flaws (2 for Form I, 3 each for the rest). I'll get that webpage working when I get the time to to show you guys.

[Maxstate]

I've been working on the Saber Skills System conceptually for a while, actually, just haven't been able to finish it due to a miriad of IRL stuff. I had a nice talk with Razor last night about it and it follows his idea of full skill customizability combined with the use of Forms.

 

Basically what I've done is that instead of limiting skills to particular Forms and their corresponding styles, I've conceptually grouped aspects of the OJP saber system into seven categories. They are:

 

Saber Proficiency: (tentative, might meld this in with Form VI instead)

Form I: Constitution (health and fatigue)

Form II: Parries (defensive and offensive use)

Form III: Blaster deflection and saber blocking

Form IV: Acrobatics

Form V: Brute strength

Form VI: Cross-class skills to buff up dual/staff

Form VII: Feints

 

Basically the way this would have to work would be that it'd be expensive to purchase too many perks, so you'll have to get flaws to get back some skill points so that you can invest more. This way people can basically create their own styles of combat while others who really dig the whole Forms thing can invest their points and have a Form focus. Mastery comes from having all the perks/flaws of one form selected. Mastering a form will magnify the perks/flaws of a style and also unlock a mastery skill.

 

I'm thinking that deadlier skills like those from Form VII should be purchased if you invest enough skill points in perks/flaws to master more than one form to access...basically a more elaborate version of the current saber attack/defense tier levels. I'm also wondering if it'd be better to have penalties for skills used outside of one style or give bonuses for use in one style instead. I'm also a bit iffy on the saber proficiency section; maybe those perks/flaws can meld in with Form VI to give more incentive in getting dual/staff?

 

I'm currently making an interactive webpage to display the skills that I've thought up so far (with some incentive from Maxstate's ideas) and show how the skills would be arranged, but basically each category will have three perks and three flaws except for Form I which only has two of each. To master a Form you have to select all the perks and flaws in that row. However, depending on how many skill points you have available, you can choose to customize however you want; you can have an acrobatic turtler or a guy who can comfortably parry on the defensive and then hurt you like hell with overhead chops -- lots of possibilities. You can do Soresu moves while in a Djem-So (Red) style, but to make the skills in a category really shine you'll have to use styles corresponding to the skill's category.

 

In my opinion the skill points distribution will have to be just enough to only allow mastery of up to three styles when a player is high-level. One way to accomplish this would be to replace the Saber Attack/Defense tiers in the Powers menu to "Saber Combat," and let's say we can have 6 levels there. Suppose that the first level of Saber Combat costs 8 points; you select it and 8 points gets deducted from your skill points pool. In doing so you're allowed access to the lightsaber and you'll be able to unlock the Saber Skills menu (thinking along the lines of the MBII skills menu here). When you open the Saber Skills menu, you can see that there are 8 points that you can spend in your saber skill points pool. So basically you've invested 8 points to choose the kinds of saber skills that you want and gain more saber skill points by purchasing flaws. As you gain more skill points from killing people, you'll have enough skill points to invest in Saber Combat lvl 2, 3, and so on. Each additional level will give you more saber skill points corresponding to the number of skill points you needed to invest for each additional level. Saber Combat 1 and 2 will allow you the use of one style, 3 and 4 gives you two styles that you can select, and 5 and 6 will give you three styles. With each additional level you won't have to purchase as many flaws to grab the perks that you want, so it's kind of simulates an increasing proficiency with certain styles of combat.

 

Razor's said that the above idea would be difficult to implement because the UI code is messy, so another alternative is to merge the perks/flaws into skills with both advantages and drawbacks. In this scheme you'll just have 3 levels in Saber Combat, where each level gives you access to one more style. Just like the first system, once you buy Saber Combat 1 you'll have access to the lightsaber as well as the Saber Skills Menu. The saber skills will be purchased using whatever skill points you have available.

 

Another alternative is to combine the two systems and purchase individual perks and flaws using the general skill points. I'm a bit conflicted about this because nothing will stop somebody from only purchasing perks; I'm skeptical about letting high level XP players have no sort of weakness to exploit so that much lower level XP players can even stand a chance. The flaws in my opinion have to be bought to introduce an additional element of strategy as to how a high level player fights. It'll also force the player to think how they want to invest in the Saber Skills System and allow low level XP players to win by fighting smart while keeping high level players on their toes, because...well, when you're someone with 54 DP and you're up against somebody with, say, 170 DP, you'll feel like you're barely getting in any punches.

 

Anyway I've managed to think up the perks and Form mastery skills, but I haven't been able to work on the flaws (2 for Form I, 3 each for the rest). I'll get that webpage working when I get the time to to show you guys.

 

 

Sounds nice, and I really hope that you will take some of my ideas in it.

If Razor is taking your idea for a ride I'll be more than happy to have mine sitting on the backseat nagging you two I've been stressing for something like this for so long!

 

And if you need cons and weaknesses or pros just holler, I've written like 2 guides for MB saber combat based on the seven Forms somewhat, I know approximately what Gillard was thinking when he pulled them from his ass

[razorace]

I think a simple system where longer swings (more frames) is inversely proportional to damage would be enough to differentiate the styles. Being able to hit more often should mean hitting less hard, and visa versa. Hockney's idea of ordering them blue, cyan, yellow, purple, red sounds good to me.

Unfortunately, frames per animations aren't an accurate measure of the windup speeds. Sometimes some animations simply have more frames for animation detail.

 

As for perks/disadvantages, based on my talks with Tanqexe, I think we should have a variety of them that apply to saberers, Force users, and gunners rather than be "form" based.

 

I suggest that perks cost skill points while disadvantages give skill points. However, you should only be able to take perks/disadvantages if you have the related skills. IE, you can't have a loose saber grip if you don't have a saber.

[razorace]

Say, what do you guys think of having weapons weigh down a fighter and either making them move slower or make them use up FP to run?

[Maxstate]

Say, what do you guys think of having weapons weigh down a fighter and either making them move slower or make them use up FP to run?

..Unless he buys a "strength" skill or something to even it out? I'll say yes to that .

[JRHockney*]

..Unless he buys a "strength" skill or something to even it out? I'll say yes to that .

 

Thats probably a good idea. We could make it relative to how much ammo your carrying as well. Maybe even slightly increased jump height too?

[Maxstate]

(Keep my previous big post in mind)

 

I don't know but it seems like a good choice to get some kind of reloading in the game, even though we never saw it in the movies I think I have seen clones asking for ammo and/or throwing their rifle down and taking their sidearm.

More proof is that the e-11 obviously has a clip sticking out of it's side just like the sterling. We wouldn't need any new animations or GFX for this, just new sounds that we can get pretty easily.

I don't think our rocket launcher can hold 24 rockets even if you placed them throughout the whole gun, the balls that you can fire off with the Flechette gun are also coming out of nowhere. Not to mention the big blob blast from the repeater.

 

If not reloading, then certainly overheating?

 

The only weapons that I think should not have any type of reloading are:

-The demp, because it doesn't work on shots or rounds but on energy.

-The bowcaster, because I want it to play a role again in star wars games.

It's been left alone and forgotten about by too many. I suggest removing the charge function and adding in a scope and faster projectiles which will be buyable.

-The Disruptor, because otherwise it would become useless. I also think that back shots with it should be dodged instead of blocked after you buy an upgrade that I will state later on.

 

 

On to what I had in mind for the skilltree to be like;

 

 

Skill tree - potential skill ideas.

_______________________________________________

 

Gun Skills:

 

Improved accuracy - 5 points -- weapons affected: E-11, bowcaster.

Your accuracy will be almost perfect in a crouched position.

 

Commando's Accuracy/Improved accuracy 2 - 5 points -- weapons affected: E-11, bowcaster.

Your accuracy will be almost perfect in a crouched position, or while you are walking.

 

Sniper's Accuracy/Improved Accuracy 3 - 3 points -- weapons affected:

E-11, bowcaster.

Your E-11 and Bowcaster aim are unmatched, you can run, walk and crouch and shoot with almost no spray and recoil.

 

=-----------------

 

Flamethrower - 15 points

(effect to be discussed)

 

=-----------------

Now for this skill to work, secondary fires, should be deactivated for all weapons. I don't think this will be too hard eh Ace?

 

Blaster Training- 4 points -- weapons affected: E-11, Bryar pistol, DL-44 Pistol, Thermal Detonator.

Your use of light armaments has become better and more efficient due to extensive training. (Secondary fire enabled for the weapons listed, so auto fire for the E-11, Pistol charge and Thermal secondary fire.)

 

Blaster Training 2/Demolition training - 4 points -- Weapons affected: DEMP(primary only) , Rocket Launcher becomes available from the list of weapons (primary only), Concussion rifle becomes available (primary only), Det packs are available, Trip mines' secondary fire (proximity mine) activated.

 

Blaster Training 3/Rifle training - 3 points -- Weapons affected: Disruptor zoom mode enabled, Repeater buyable from the list (primary only).

 

=----------------

 

Energy weapon Training - 10 points -- Weapons effected: DEMP secondary available, Concussion rifle secondary available, Repeater secondary available.

Having studied energy weapons you now know how to use them more efficiently.

-Demp primary overloads guns and stops them from shooting while the target is under the effect of it, Secondary full shot blast drains 10-50 rounds of ammo randomly.

-Concussion primary deals 50-70 HP damage. Unless the target has shields, then only 10 shield damage. Secondary knocks the target over (it already does ) and forces it to stand up slowly like a jedi with no force Jump.

Secondary cooldown: 4 seconds.

Primary splash damage does 3 shield damage and 3 hp damage, secondary must be a direct hit.

-Repeater secondary moves very slowly and with a parabola, is pushable and deals 30 damage + knocks down a group. Drains 50 ammo.

 

=----------------------

 

Recoil control - 10 points -- Weapons affected: E-11, Bowcaster, Repeater, Pistols, Disruptor.

Use of blasters has granted you with improved recoil control.

-Rate of fire times 1.25, times 1.50 for pistols.

 

=----------------------

 

Scoped weapon upgrade. - 10 points -- Weapons affected: Bowcaster.

Salvaging enemy weapon parts you were able to make a weapon scope.

-Your bowcaster's secondary fire is replaced with a scope for taking out long targets.

-The scope is nothing other than cg_fov set really low in order to zoom in.

-Bowcaster damage is upped by 10 DP/HP from whatever it was, while shooting from zoomed mode.

 

You should make cg_fov impossible to set under 80, Ace.

 

Scoped Weapon Upgrade 2 - 5 points -- weapons affected: E-11.

Preferring preciseness over spraying, you adjust your E-11 with a scope.

-Same as Bowcaster, primary shoots, secondary sets you in scoped mode.

-Enhanced damage from shooting from scoped mode to make it more attractive (a la bowcaster).

 

=-----------------------

 

Improved explosive ammunition - 8 points -- weapons affected: Rocket Launcher, Fc1 Flechette rifle.

Your demolition skill and your proficiency with heavy weapons are unmatched.

-Rocket launcher secondary enabled, locked on rockets now follow your enemies (faster than the current ones, do more damage) and hits do a lot of damage. Rockets can be pushed and shot down, though.

-Shotgun secondary available, launches 4 balls each doing 25 DP or HP damage on a direct hit, good for clearing multiple enemies.

Cooldowns: Rocket secondary and primary cooldowns are 5 seconds each respectively.

 

=-----------------------

 

Pistol Specialization - 7 points

Your frequent use of pistols has taught you how to dual-wield them with skill.

-Pistol dual-wield a la cultist_commando with increased damage (notice it's called a HEAVY pistol..)

 

=--------------------------------------_____________________________=

 

 

End of gunner skills.

 

 

Simple gadgets/upgrades:

____________________________________________________________

Armor added!

All points that are not allocated to a skill will act as armor points.

 

=-------------

 

 

Emergency medpack - 8 points

Emergency medipack that can be used to heal 30 HP, must be used in meditative position. Use from inventory.

Emergency Bacta-canister - 10 points

Emergency bacta canister can be used to heal 50 HP while standing still, use from inventory.

 

Medistation - 20 points

Thrown out of the inventory like the ammo generator we have now, with the model of the ingame medikit taht can be found scattered across maps, anyone that stands close to it will heal 15 HP every 3 seconds. The medipack has enough battery lifetime in it to last 60 seconds before it vanishes.

 

=-------------------------------

 

Endurance Training - 10 points

Higher run speed, about 15% higher.

 

More Gadgets to come

 

=-------------------------------__________________________________

 

Now I'll save my Lightsaber skill thoughts for another time, but here's what I think that some Force skills should look like:

 

Improved Force Jump - 10 points

Increases Force Jump jumpheight to 24x regular jump height, and increases speed at which you fly up. Speed forwards remains the same ofcourse.

 

=------------------------

 

Channel the Force - 10 points

When you meditate you regain Force Points faster.

 

=-----------------------

 

Force Wave/Circle Push - 8 points (Acts like level 4 push).

The ability to use Force Push all around you in a wave form. Nothing new needed, just the radius of Force Push enlarged to be 360 degrees .

=------------------------_______________________________________

 

End of Force skills

 

 

Lightsaber skills: (red for damage/stat increase/active, blue for passive, green for hybrid - only for the lightsaber part here, gun part was purely cosmetic might change later.)

 

 

 

=------------------------

 

Saber Defense system EXPLAINED/TWEAKED! - The

 

SBD 1: Allows only deflection.

SBD 2: Allows basic reflection.

SBD 3: Allows aimed reflection. 50% Reflection-towards-crosshair rate.

 

If you run, your current skill level drops by one. So when you run with SBD3 you only have SBD2.

=-------------------------

 

 

Jedi Defense: - 5 points -- Lightsaber.

The jedi can now deflect shots away in a 360 degree radius, back hits drain 50% more DP than normal 180-front hits.

 

Advanced Jedi Defense: - 8 points -- Lightsaber

The Jedi can now deflect shots in a 360 degree radius without the back damage penalty.

 

Works in all styles.

 

=------------------------

 

Jedi Deflection/Manual Deflection (MD) SKILL ADDED!: - 10 points -- Lightsaber

 

Jedi can now tap fake at the moment a blaster bolt hits them to manually deflect them at a random enemy in range.

 

Only thing that needs to be done is to make this skill buyable

 

=------------------------

 

Martial Arts Training - 5 points -- Lightsaber

Kick has a wider area of effect so you can kick people away much easier.

 

=------------------------

 

Dueler's Defense. -10 points -- Lightsaber

Ripostes have a chance of disarming an opponent between medium and high and mishap.

 

=-----------------------

Master Parry -15 points --Lightsaber

If a Jedi is low on DP and his enemy is about to perform a superbreak in a lock, the jedi can perform a riposte in the right direction to save himself from the superbreak but only if it is timed correctly and if the Jedi still has above 30FP.

 

=--To be continued.

 

 

Phew, gonna take a break again.

[Darth Cariss]

I like a lot of Maxy's above ideas. They are mostly just code-based things that don't really require any new animation or graphics, which makes them not too hard to impliment, in theory. Though I still do think offensive gadgits and things like Flame Throwers would be good.

[datguru]

Ya i love those ideas max

[razorace]

reloading

It's doable. The reason why I haven't done that is because it would require a lot of programming to add something that isn't in a game by default. The question is if we really want it or not. An argument could be made that the Star Wars galaxy uses blasters vs our primative slugthrowers because they DON'T have to be reloaded.

 

Gun Skills

Good ideas, but do we want the accuracy skills directly associated with the individual weapons or not? Granted, we could have accuracy as various perks but those could be secondary to the weapons skill level rank.

 

Also we could add prereqs skills for getting certain weapons but I personally think that over-complicates things. I think the skill points invested in a weapon count both the physical cost of the weapon and the training effort to use it effectively.

 

Also, I think we need to limit the number of "exotic" weapons in the game. Blasters seem to be the stable of the SW galaxy for a reason. I'm willing to accept exotic weapons to a degree, they shouldn't be overpowered. For example, I'd kind of like to see the Demp turned into the sonic cannons used by the geoniosions.

 

As for scopes, that's actually a great idea. For weapons that have scopes, it really shouldn't be that hard to make their secondaries be the scope zoom in. I'll add a ticket for that. Do any weapons other than the pistol, blaster, bowcaster, and disruptor have scopes?

 

Armor

I like the idea of armor vs the shields that players currently use. I'll look into making armor a buyable skill. However, I should note that armor should be a pretty expensive skill since it allows players to last longer. Maybe "armor" should be whatever unallociated skill points the player has left over? I think MOTS used that technique. Plus this will give those players who don't upgrade their skills often at least SOMETHING for those extra earned points.

 

Shields

I vastly prefer the idea of armor over personal shields. I suggest we do everything in terms of armor.

 

Ammo supply

I don't really like that idea. It sounds too much like a magical device. I think players should have a set amount of ammo and that's it.

 

Medpacks

Sounds like a decent idea, but I suspect that forcing players into the meditation stance (for non-jedi) would just get them killed. I'm going to suggest that we just make the bacta tank a buyable item, which is an instant use, but gives a limited and slow health regeneration to the player.

 

Endurance Training

Not a bad idea, but it might have technical issues, I'm worried that it will be too bad to sync the animation to the movement rate if we do that.

 

Improved Force Jump

Do we want this as a perk or should it just be part of the Force Jump skill?

 

Channel the Force

I've been considering making one of the Lightsider's primary Force skills. However, I'm not sure what it should do beyond the meditation regeneration rate. I'm thinking that this should be a opposite of Force Rage, which will give the player faster regen and DP damage if they actively use it AND fight better than their opponent. Maybe better bolt reflection and higher mishaps for parries or something?

[Maxstate]

It's doable. The reason why I haven't done that is because it would require a lot of programming to add something that isn't in a game by default. The question is if we really want it or not. An argument could be made that the Star Wars galaxy uses blasters vs our primative slugthrowers because they DON'T have to be reloaded.

You're right. I'm sure I personally want it since it just doesn't seen realistic that you can shoot 300 e-11 rounds in really quick succession without thinking twice. Even the vehicles have only so much ammo before they have to recharge.

 

Good ideas, but do we want the accuracy skills directly associated with the individual weapons or not? Granted, we could have accuracy as various perks but those could be secondary to the weapons skill level rank.

Well the "Blaster training" skills would just be needed to open up the weapons in the list, see I don't think someone with 40 skill knows how to handle a Rocket Launcher without getting training, just as how Jedi need to train saber Attack and Defense before they can use it correctly.

 

The accuracy skills are related to your position and not the guns themselves, if you are walking for example you will shoot much more precisely than if you were running. If you are crouching you will shoot even more precisely etc. etc. Those things can be bought with the skill

 

Also we could add prereqs skills for getting certain weapons but I personally think that over-complicates things. I think the skill points invested in a weapon count both the physical cost of the weapon and the training effort to use it effectively.

If it easens up the workload for you I'm all in for it, I'm currently trying to come up with ideas that will give us a great new experience but still keep the workload to a minimum. I thought up some of these ideas (like the force jump one) to be a bit more simpler so Hocks can train his skills too! There are a lot of tricky ones in my list but I don't need you to take them all in, just the ones we all think would benefit our game

 

Also, I think we need to limit the number of "exotic" weapons in the game. Blasters seem to be the stable of the SW galaxy for a reason. I'm willing to accept exotic weapons to a degree, they shouldn't be overpowered. For example, I'd kind of like to see the Demp turned into the sonic cannons used by the geoniosions.

Hmm that's easy to do I guess, we would just need some new sounds.

 

As for scopes, that's actually a great idea. For weapons that have scopes, it really shouldn't be that hard to make their secondaries be the scope zoom in. I'll add a ticket for that. Do any weapons other than the pistol, blaster, bowcaster, and disruptor have scopes?

The DEMP has a scope too and the repeater but I'm not sure about it.

 

I like the idea of armor vs the shields that players currently use. I'll look into making armor a buyable skill. However, I should note that armor should be a pretty expensive skill since it allows players to last longer. Maybe "armor" should be whatever unallociated skill points the player has left over? I think MOTS used that technique. Plus this will give those players who don't upgrade their skills often at least SOMETHING for those extra earned points.

The only reason I added shield ideas is because I was worried that you wouldn't like the armour ideas I think that sounds like a good deal altough less visual I think it might work.

 

I vastly prefer the idea of armor over personal shields. I suggest we do everything in terms of armor.

Hahaha great !

 

I don't really like that idea. It sounds too much like a magical device. I think players should have a set amount of ammo and that's it.

Okay.

 

Sounds like a decent idea, but I suspect that forcing players into the meditation stance (for non-jedi) would just get them killed. I'm going to suggest that we just make the bacta tank a buyable item, which is an instant use, but gives a limited and slow health regeneration to the player.

That's the thing you know, if they want to be healed they have to be vulnerable in order not to make the skill allpowerful and unbalanced

 

Not a bad idea, but it might have technical issues, I'm worried that it will be too bad to sync the animation to the movement rate if we do that.

We could also just enable them to riposte power attacks to get out of the lock alltogether?

 

Do we want this as a perk or should it just be part of the Force Jump skill?

Indeed.. I would rather want it to be a perk because a lot of people have already gotten used to the current jump.

 

I've been considering making one of the Lightsider's primary Force skills. However, I'm not sure what it should do beyond the meditation regeneration rate. I'm thinking that this should be a opposite of Force Rage, which will give the player faster regen and DP damage if they actively use it AND fight better than their opponent. Maybe better bolt reflection and higher mishaps for parries or something?

I agree. You like my bolt deflection ideas? That would be so cool if they got in

[Doctor Shaft]

So... a few force power ideas, along with some comments of my own.

 

 

[On power attack and making it parryable to avoid locks]

 

I rather like the feature of being able to force a lock for a kill. It adds an element to the game that makes players think when they're low on DP, instead of just trying to hang in there and hoping for a good parry. It also gives the offensive person a nice coup de grace moment, where they know they can go full tilt. Providing a defense against it... sure, but I'd prefer it was something that wasn't a guarentee. A Parry against it... as long as your idea for countering it isn't something that completely negates the effect it has now, reducing the lock into nothing more than a mistake or lack of skill on the defender's part.

 

[On "Channeling the Force"]

 

I was going to write all of these little ideas for using the various Force Powers for certain aspects, or how to jive with some of the ideas that Maxy had presented earlier. But I felt they were all falling short because OJP really doesn't seem like an ideal game to base on "Force Powers" that have separate abilities or the like. Rather, I think we're all kind of leaning towards introducing "Force Attributes" instead.

 

Force Push/Pull/Jump/Grip/Lightning/Speed/Absorb/Seeing already have a firm place in the game. They work, they function well. They should have their own attribute category. Then other abilities we "invent" can be introduced into other categories.

 

Previously, I had mentioned an idea of having users invest Skill Points into certain categories, and in order to unlock "The Dark Side", the user would have to spend even more points in certain areas to "reach" that point. So one would invest points in Push and Pull, and then choose to go "onward" and invest points in the Dark Side to have Lightning. But I guess that wouldn't really work out in the end. What would a light side user do with all those unspent points.

 

So instead, I think the system should be open, as it already is. But have certain powers with high costs than they currently have. Powers get placed into sections, and but certain powers would have higher cost ratings.

 

I think "Channeling the Force" should be a category, and we go about devising both a "Light" and "Dark" way of channeling. For the Dark Side, we have powers like Rage. For the Light... well, we're still thinking.

 

 

I've probably rewritten this post a million times, and I still don't know what I'm talking about. I just think we should think of more ideas that move away from the "Point and Shoot" philosophy. We already have enough of those.

 

The only problem I see with maxy's channel idea right now is that it's both "boring" to use, and might not see much utility in a duel, whereas the rage idea is usable any time.

[Maxstate]

So... a few force power ideas, along with some comments of my own.

 

 

[On power attack and making it parryable to avoid locks]

 

I rather like the feature of being able to force a lock for a kill. It adds an element to the game that makes players think when they're low on DP, instead of just trying to hang in there and hoping for a good parry. It also gives the offensive person a nice coup de grace moment, where they know they can go full tilt. Providing a defense against it... sure, but I'd prefer it was something that wasn't a guarentee. A Parry against it... as long as your idea for countering it isn't something that completely negates the effect it has now, reducing the lock into nothing more than a mistake or lack of skill on the defender's part.

 

[On "Channeling the Force"]

 

I was going to write all of these little ideas for using the various Force Powers for certain aspects, or how to jive with some of the ideas that Maxy had presented earlier. But I felt they were all falling short because OJP really doesn't seem like an ideal game to base on "Force Powers" that have separate abilities or the like. Rather, I think we're all kind of leaning towards introducing "Force Attributes" instead.

 

Force Push/Pull/Jump/Grip/Lightning/Speed/Absorb/Seeing already have a firm place in the game. They work, they function well. They should have their own attribute category. Then other abilities we "invent" can be introduced into other categories.

 

Previously, I had mentioned an idea of having users invest Skill Points into certain categories, and in order to unlock "The Dark Side", the user would have to spend even more points in certain areas to "reach" that point. So one would invest points in Push and Pull, and then choose to go "onward" and invest points in the Dark Side to have Lightning. But I guess that wouldn't really work out in the end. What would a light side user do with all those unspent points.

 

So instead, I think the system should be open, as it already is. But have certain powers with high costs than they currently have. Powers get placed into sections, and but certain powers would have higher cost ratings.

 

I think "Channeling the Force" should be a category, and we go about devising both a "Light" and "Dark" way of channeling. For the Dark Side, we have powers like Rage. For the Light... well, we're still thinking.

 

 

I've probably rewritten this post a million times, and I still don't know what I'm talking about. I just think we should think of more ideas that move away from the "Point and Shoot" philosophy. We already have enough of those.

 

The only problem I see with maxy's channel idea right now is that it's both "boring" to use, and might not see much utility in a duel, whereas the rage idea is usable any time.

Yeah I get that alot, I start typing something that sounds great and while I read it it justs sounds like the worst idea ever. And yeah, channeling the force could become boring. I don't like rage because it reminds me too much of Base spamming, you would really have to work it out very extensively for it to work.

 

I'd rather see a kind of hybrid of a previous idea of someone here and your idea; overpowering Force powers. Getting a bit more effect from a force power when this and that factor is met. Circle push for example, "Force Wave", Razor likes it too .

[razorace]

[On power attack and making it parryable to avoid locks]

The current system makes parrying an attack fake prevent the saberlock. However, in terms of MP points this situation pretty much neutralizes the effects on each other. The blocker only gets -1 MP and the attacker gets 1 MP.

[razorace]

In other news, I need more feedback on the skill point costs for the current skills. They need to be balanced more but I'm not sure what needs to be tweaked and by how much.

[Maxstate]

In other news, I need more feedback on the skill point costs for the current skills. They need to be balanced more but I'm not sure what needs to be tweaked and by how much.

 

Jump:

Well as I said, I'm hoping you'll add that jump skill so we can have 4 buyable Jump skills:

-Jump 1 - 7 points

-Jump 2 - 5 Points

-Jump 3 - 4 points

-Jump 4 - 10 Points -- Jump 4 makes you jump faster and increases possible jump height to 24x regular jump height.

 

Push:

-Push 4 - 8 Points - Pushes everything around you in a circle. Good for blowing away projectiles and low DP/high mishap duelists if you need a break

As I said, you need to use the Deathxx anims for push knockback Ace, we only have one right now and it's pretty boring.

 

Pull 1 - 8 points - Ability to pull items and weapons from the ground to you.

Pull 2 - 5 points - Ability to pull weapons from gunners if they are more than 20 points under your skill level. Only able to pull if your crosshair is pointing at them and they are running or jumping. You can pull the guns from NPC's by aiming and pulling no matter what.

Pull 3 - 5 points - You can trip running people over by aiming at them and pulling them. They do not fly towards you.

 

I like the rest of the force points

 

But I think that the jetpack needs to either be capped for fuel and given a cooldown or it needs to become a burst-controlled jetpack.

Also, if we get the pistol skills in there I'd like the pistol to cost more. Since it's a great weapon and you have unlimited ammo, if you get more damage and/or dual pistols then they're going to be a force to be reckoned with.

[Doctor Shaft]

Honestly, I think points isn't all that will "fix" the current Force system.

 

I'm a supporter of being able to "choose what you like" in terms of Force Powers, but I think that the system would benefit more from having a "tier" system, in that you can't access certain tiers until you've invested points in a variety of categories.

 

The problem we have now with the powers is that, especially in the beginning rounds, players can quickly specialize in high use powers, like lightning. While this can quite easily be countered by either also investing in lightning, or matching with absorb, it kind of detracts from the game.

 

Last night's test was fun, and I thought it was hilarious getting shocked and then shot to death on the floor. That feature should remain, as far as I'm concerned. The problem is that it's a feature that happens too soon, or at too low a level, to the point that players can opt to circumvent the saber system and just specialize in strong powers to overwhelm everyone, other Force Powers be darned.

 

 

By forcing players to invest in certain power "trees" you can prevent the 'uber-tweaking'. Granted, we're all still going to pick what is most effective and efficient, but it would create a better feeling if everyone wasn't "The Dark Lord of the Sith that can shoot lightning... but can't jump over a crate or block a Force Push."

 

 

I'm currently thinking of writing up a rough draft for categories and tiers... but we're still short on ideas for other Force Powers. Also, would we actually WANT to have the powers tiered and categorized? I think it's a good idea. I think buying different saber styles, etc., and having everything lead into one another would be a great system. But that would require more work... and ideas.

 

There's always a downside.

[razorace]

Max's last post

 

I'd rather avoid going to a 3 tiered skill system if we could. We do get three levels of differences as is. Which is quite a bit to work with already. If we want to make Force powers more powerful, we could shift the level 3 stuff into level 2 and then expand level 3.

 

But I suppose we could look into how complicated it would be. I think Azymn did it for FM3. We'll have to check that out. Submit a bug ticket task to remind me to check it out.

 

Also, is there are particular reason why you want Pull to trip people rather than pull them towards the user?

 

As for the jetpack, I don't think it's too bad at the moment. I've found that it's really easy to get killed by reflected bolts or missiles because you don't have any DP while in the air.

 

Finally, we'll have to see about the pistol aim stuff. I just haven't gotten to it yet.

[razorace]

Shaft's Last post

I'm still on the fence about having prereqs to powers. It looks like adding prereqs isn't too complicated by it might get really tricky if we aren't careful.

[razorace]

I'm going to suggest that maybe ALL Force powers should have some initial prereq. I'd rather not have to create a 'Force Sensitive' skill, so I'm going to suggest that Force Seeing level 1 be the prereq for all the other Force powers. That way, you have to invest in at least one level of Force Seeing before you can access other players.

[Doctor Shaft]

Well, that's sort of what I meant. The "pre-reqs" don't need to be complicated or overblown. Just some kind of control.

 

The idea being that players should at least have invested points in mundane powers before they become "Shock Masters".

 

If I had to make a quick example, it would be like this:

 

Force Grip: Grip players with the Force violently.

Pre-Reqs: Player has invested points in at least four different powers in whatever "tier" we'd place Grip in.

 

The way this would work would keep it simple. Players wouldn't have to unload tons of points into push or jump just to get access. Instead, they'd have to have at least filled out a certain number of powers from a category.

 

So if a category of powers had five Force powers in it, And Grip was in the "next category" (all theoretically speaking), then the pre-req would be something like "invest points in at least 3 powers in Tier 1". For lightning, it would be something like 4 powers. So they can still choose to forgo something, but have to invest elsewhere.

 

This way, early game choices wouldn't introduce "Shock Masters" or "Super Absorbers" early on. Instead, everyone would have a more "well-rounded" model, and as the game progresses, more powers would appear in battle.

 

 

If powers were put into something like three tiers, the requirements could be based on this:

 

Tier 1 powers: Instant access... all neutral powers.

Tier 2 powers: Light and Dark abilities... mostly passive abilities (rage, protect)

Tier 3 powers: Abilities that are cast upon others, both Light and Dark. Lightning. Etc. Advanced saber abilities (maybe).

 

Each level of power would be "granted" after a player had filled enough from the other tiers. 4 from Tier 1. 2 or 3 from tier 2 (depending on how much was there), and then Tier 3 is open season afterward. All you have to do is front the initial cost of the power (which would be high).

 

So, if a player really wanted lightning early on, they could conceivably do that. But it will be more expensive to get their, than it would be to advance other, earlier powers into higher levels. So there's a higher trade than there currently exists now.

[razorace]

ok, lets talk specifics then. To start, I suggest that we make ALL force powers (except possibly saber attack) rely on the player having at least one level in Force Seeing. As such, Force See level 1 would be the equivilent of the skill cost of being Force sensitive.

 

Beyond that, maybe require a certain number of ranks in neutral powers before the offensive dark side powers become available?

[Sushi_CW]

I like this prereq idea.

 

Oh yeah, one more thing... right now, you can shift all of your powers around at will without having to die first. This could be potentially unbalancing: imagine a player who shifts everything to lightning to zap someone, then shifts those points to jump to quickly get somewhere, then shifts them back to lightning. Basically, they get all force powers for the price of one, provided they're willing to take 3 seconds to open the force menu and shift them around. Are we OK with this?