Server and mod commentary

[Lathain Valtiel]

You honestly might as well use the Meatgrinder server for OJP-E. Nobody visits it for Basic anymore, and it's more stable. Plus, if it crashes (...is there a PDuel problem?), I can bring it back up.

 

And as much as I hate to admit it, roasting you all to death is very amusing.

 

---

 

Right, comments...

 

Flamethrower: Cute, very cute. I like it, it's not overpowering, but it's useful as a tool for wearing down the opposition. I do think its fuel restoration rate should be increased slightly, by, say... 5 to 10%?

 

Seeker Drone: Also a useful tool for wearing down the opposition. However, it has a few annoying quirks. One, unless I'm hallucinating, it keeps making its activation sound every few seconds. Two, if you move erratically to confuse your opponents, the drone will get in your way and stop you from moving, which is rather irritating.

 

Thermals: Ehhh... they are NOT worth skill 8 points a pop without a contact explosion secondary. As they are, it's more like 5s... decently easy to evade from what I can see.

 

Detpacks: DEFINITELY not worth their 8 point cost. Even if they are powerful, there is a delay between dropping and using them, and worse yet they are supposed to be trap weapons. It is not a very effective trap if an opponent can evade damage from two placed in their feet in succession, since the activation means you don't have another weapon to blast them for a second or two. As they are, either double the amount of ammo a slot of Detpack gives you, or drop their point cost to 6.

 

Rocket Launcher: You already know what I say about this. I actually don't mind how it functions at the moment EXCEPT for the ridiculously long cooldown that stops you from switching away from it. I do think however that 8 per shot is excessive even if that cooldown were reduced or it allowed weapon swap, it should be 7s.

 

Pistol and Blaster: USELESS. USELESS. USELESS. Blaster definitely needs its secondary function restored, no questions asked. So does Pistol, and possibly make it fire slightly quicker. There's honestly no use for it.

 

Bowcaster: That secondary needs to be slowed down a bit, but ONLY if Blaster secondary is restored. In the meantime it is fine as it is.

 

Lightning: The range for the line-based Lightning is a bit too long when you consider its knockdown effect.

 

Jetpack: Actually, I haven't used this yet. However, if it's possible, could you make it that while in midair and you have it, pressing Jump activates the jetpack?

[JRHockney*]

Pistol and Blaster: USELESS. USELESS. USELESS. Blaster definitely needs its secondary function restored, no questions asked. So does Pistol, and possibly make it fire slightly quicker. There's honestly no use for it.

 

There still useful for fighting other gunners, but yeah they are pretty useless against saber. I kinda miss the secondary fire as well.

 

I still think that saberists should lose triple DP if they are hit with any kind oblaster bolt while running and swinging. This would make the blasters a bit more useful and make the jedi not just recklessly swing at gunners like they can now and just make it more movielike in general. Thats pretty fair and conservative considering that MB2 allows NO defense while swinging unless they have T3.

 

I actually don't mind how it functions at the moment EXCEPT for the ridiculously long cooldown that stops you from switching away from it.

 

I don't mind a cool down between shots for the sake of fairness, but if it stops you from switching weapons, thats probably too much.

 

Lightning: The range for the line-based Lightning is a bit too long when you consider its knockdown effect.

 

Your Probably right. Its kinda of our mods Uber force power. THere are special defenses to it though through absorb (which reverses whos getting shocked XD) and with a saber.

[Lathain Valtiel]

The bowcaster is currently better against both gunners and sabers though, due to its high fire rate. Right now that fire rate is justified since blaster and pistol both stink badly...

[razorace]

Since the thread titles also mentions server commentary, I have a server related question. How many maps of the same gametype should be played in a row?

 

I've noticed (and have been informed by my server admins) that the best server configs should have multiple maps of the same gametype in a row. How many maps should we have in a row of the same gametype before we switch gametypes?

[UDM]

I'd say 8 of FFA and as many co-op maps as possible. IMHO they should run on a short timelimit, so that the gametype cycle is fast. FFA is only fun for so long before it gets boring. Co-op is the new way of JKA!

 

Btw would it be a good idea to include the JK2 maps as part of OJP? Or is that copyright infringement? Reason is because I play FFA on the JK2 duel maps a LOT, which are by far much better than JKA's due to their size and majesty. Esp with the new experience system, there's no need to run around picking up ammo. It's a fragger's dream come true. Pure fragaholic fun. We could use JK2's maps in Meatgrinder...?

 

Plus, JK2's FFA maps and CTF maps are great too.

[Lathain Valtiel]

The JK2 maps are already on the server.

 

The problem is that NO ONE DOWNLOADS THEM!

[Maxstate]

The JK2 maps are already on the server.

 

The problem is that NO ONE DOWNLOADS THEM!

He's talking about the REAL SP JKO maps.

[Lathain Valtiel]

Errr... he talked about JK2's Duel, FFA, and CTF maps. He didn't say anything about its SP maps.

 

The JK2 multiplayer maps are on the Meatgrinder.

[Sushi_CW]

My thoughts after playing today on a server stuffed with players:

 

1. This is insanely fun.

 

2. Once a gunner has rockets, flame, a jetpack, and full absorb, it's insanely hard to kill him as a pure Jedi. Your force powers are just plain useless because of the Absorb. If you do get into saber range he flies away. If you try to keep your distance and deflect his shots back at him he comes just close enough to toast you with a flamethrower.

 

3. Level 3 Absorb is probably too powerful as a passive power. It's a real bargain: for something that take 12 Skill points and no FP when used, you get full protection from all force powers out there.

[Lathain Valtiel]

It's no one's fault but your own if you choose to be a pure Jedi. Further, that last thing can be countered by Speed, I've been diced up enough by that. It's not a problem with gunners being overpowered, it's a problem of Saber Throw and so on not being implemented yet, as the easy answer to most of those besides Speed is 'Saber Throw'. Implement Throw before you do anything else, because frankly if Sushi refuses to adapt from pure Jedi it's his own problem... after all, gunners with Absorb are impure Jedi.

 

As is, I agree that passive Absorb should cost more. I'm against requiring it to be activated, though. Just either make it cost more or simply make it drain some FP if you absorb.

[razorace]

3. Level 3 Absorb is probably too powerful as a passive power. It's a real bargain: for something that take 12 Skill points and no FP when used, you get full protection from all force powers out there.

I thought it still used up some DP or FP to block Force powers. hmmm...

[Maxstate]

It's no one's fault but your own if you choose to be a pure Jedi. Further, that last thing can be countered by Speed, I've been diced up enough by that. It's not a problem with gunners being overpowered, it's a problem of Saber Throw and so on not being implemented yet, as the easy answer to most of those besides Speed is 'Saber Throw'. Implement Throw before you do anything else, because frankly if Sushi refuses to adapt from pure Jedi it's his own problem... after all, gunners with Absorb are impure Jedi.

 

As is, I agree that passive Absorb should cost more. I'm against requiring it to be activated, though. Just either make it cost more or simply make it drain some FP if you absorb.

 

If a player WANTS to be a Jedi in the open JEDI project, he can be one. And if he stays true to his path and doesn't use any gunner gadgets or trinkets he's bound to get some kind of reward for doing so.

[Lathain Valtiel]

He already gets a reward... the reward is not needing to spend the skill points on those gadgets and dedicating his points solely to Force, which is quite dangerous if evoked properly. He'd probably start with a heap of shielding too after awhile. He shouldn't get some bonus for sticking solely to the right side of the skill screen, unless sticking entirely to the left side of the skill screen got you something too.

 

What you said isn't really an argument against my point. Adaptation is everything, even Obi-Wan pulled a blaster when the situation called for it. So what, should he have lost some mystical Jedi power for using an OMG GUNNER WEAPON? No, I don't think so either.

[Maxstate]

He already gets a reward... the reward is not needing to spend the skill points on those gadgets and dedicating his points solely to Force, which is quite dangerous if evoked properly. He'd probably start with a heap of shielding too after awhile. He shouldn't get some bonus for sticking solely to the right side of the skill screen, unless sticking entirely to the left side of the skill screen got you something too.

I want both skilltrees to get equal chance and equal rewards for sticking to their side of the screen. A gunner shouldn't be able to take lightning 3 and not face some kind of penalty. A jedi shouldn't be able to take thermals and detpacks, or a sentry droid without having to face some kind of penalty too.

 

What you said isn't really an argument against my point. Adaptation is everything, even Obi-Wan pulled a blaster when the situation called for it. So what, should he have lost some mystical Jedi power for using an OMG GUNNER WEAPON? No, I don't think so either.

Obi Wan is Obi Wan, I'm talking about Jedi who want to stick to their beliefs and just use their own weapons and powers. If they can do this, they should get rewarded. Same thing for gunners.

 

Obi wan was also in a life threatening situation, OJP players aren't in a life threatening situation since they respawn.

[JRHockney*]

I could shred your argument to pieces man, unlike you.

 

Easy there, Max. We don't want pick fights here with unneccessary comments.

[Maxstate]

Easy there, Max. We don't want pick fights here with unneccessary comments.

 

Okay, just for you then

[razorace]

I tend to agree with Lath on this one. Having cross-profession penalties would be hard to code and, well, penaltize realistic New Hope+ era characters.

[UDM]

Yes I agree, simply put, a cross class should never be as powerful as a pure class because he opts for quantity (of weapons and tools) over quality

 

Let's say I choose to be a merc-Jedi with the following skills in a server with min. 100FP:

 

- Flamethrower = 8 pts

- Jetpack = 8 pts

- Rocket Launcher lvl 2 = 16 pts

- Cloaking Device = 8 pts

- Bowcaster lvl 2 = 16 pts

- Saber Attack lvl 2 = 16 pts

- Saber Defence lvl 3 = 24 pts

- Force See lvl 1 = 4 pts

TOTAL: 100 pts!!!

 

Sounds powerful? Not really. I can easily counter this with the following character (assuming Force Sense = Auto force push as I'd suggested):

 

- Force Sense lvl 3 = 12 points

- Saber Attack lvl 3 = 12 pts

- Saber Defence lvl 3 = 12 pts

- Force Pull lvl 3 = 12 pts

- Force Lightning lvl 3 = 24 pts

- Force Speed lvl 3 = 12 pts

TOTAL: 84 points!!!! That's 16 points less than our cross class. Now let me show you guys how I will beat the cross class.

 

First, I will turn on Force Sense so I know where he is (if he is onthe ground). If he's flying, well all I need to do is follow the flames. Then, I will just lightning him until his jetpack is out of power. Or if he's on the grounds, he will try to flame me and shoot me at the same time. No problem, just turn on speed, wait for his fuel to run down, then go forward, lightning him or just run up and saber him (but technically, this is impossible for me because my ping is always so damn high)

 

So you see, a crossed class will lose out eventually

 

(btw Saber Throw is pretty useless as is, because of the inability to return and inaccuracy. Any ideas on how to make it a more useful skill?)

[Maxstate]

I tend to agree with Lath on this one. Having cross-profession penalties would be hard to code and, well, penaltize realistic New Hope+ era characters.

You all seriously want gunners running around with lightning 3, palpatine style?

 

That's just sick man...

This means that it's no longer the open jedi project. People will have no reason to just stick to the Force and their sabers. Everyone will be running around with detpacks and thermals and bowcasters and flamers and Jedi will just be able to stand there doing nothing.

 

Man that..just.. it will be friggin chaos! You seriously can't reward someone that sticks to Force and Lightsabers with something extra? Like some specific skill or something? New lightsaber styles? And you can't reward a pure gunner by giving him access to the rocket launcher and other gadgets? Why?

 

You want this to be a movie-realistic, realistic mod in general but still have some kind of "new hope+ era" feeling? Dudes, our Jedi aren't powerful enough to simulate Jedi from that time. Jedi from that time took on friggin armies of creatures and gunners and came out unscaved. Luke used AT MOST a pistol during his pilot years and afterwards he mainly used his saber and force powers. But the fact that he spent less or no time training his gunner skills, he had enough time to learn how to use Force Grip and to develop his powers even more. If he had sticked to guns and gadgets more he wouldn't of been a Jedi master, I can assure you that.

 

I know you're gonna bring up Kyle Katarn. And I can counter you immediately:

Kyle Katarn spent time without Force and without his lightsaber multiple times, and each time had to re-learn EVERYTHING he had learned before he put them away! Think about that!

 

It would be unfair to Jedi, and it's easy for someone like Lath to speak about this, Razor, he likes gunning and primarily uses it ingame. And I've noticed that you've been liking a lot of his ideas, I don't mind that, but lets not get carried away here. This is still a Jedi mod, you didn't spend so much time working on all these Jedi powers, re-making the sabersystem and balancing out so many things just to see it all thrown away?

 

I mean, if this goes on, I'll have no reason not to use a gun or flamer once I'm low in a duel for example. People that want to duel and not be disturbed by gunners will always have to go into dueling mode to be able to even duel RIGHT. ANd it's not just the dueling part that's gonna get screwed over.

 

UDM's example is still in the mindset of a very low playercount. He's thinking of 2 players.. if your ambition is to make this mod geared towards 2 player games then you seriously need to ask yourself why you've been spending so much time on this mod.

 

It won't work like that with a 10 or more man server. You won't be able to track and kill a gunner without getting shot by another. No problem, but I wouldn't like that gunner to be able to buy lightning 3, push 3, jump 3 or absorb 3 and counter everything I have in my arsenal easily.

 

How are Jedi supposed to kill gunners if they can absorb all Force powers?

Do you guys even KNOW what a seasoned gunner does when a jedi comes close? He just whips out his saber and defends against the Jedi's slashes, flies away and just whips out his rocket launcher again and starts shooting..

 

Is that what you want? That's just a load of bull and I can't believe you want it that way.

[razorace]

I just don't see it being a problem. Such high level crossover as you're suggesting would indicate that the player would be very high level anyway, so they'd be a killing machine anyway. If they're high level, I don't see any problem with allowing them to specialize merc or jedi or something in between.

 

Secondly, just because we don't always take your advice doesn't mean it's not an open project. :|

[UDM]

Max: when you are involved in a huge gang fight eg. 4 players and above, you normally concentrate on ONE person alone anyway. In which case, it's still a 1 on 1 situation. In fact, when playing Quake or any other shooter games for that matter, no one in the right mind will try to strike an enemy and when he fails to kill him, he'll then go for another one. You're just opening yourself to more attacks.

 

And Razor has a point. If a merc can be as powerful as you describe, then why can't the pure Jedi (assuming we've got more force powers and skills)? lol

 

Besides, we can "penalize" cross characters by adjusting skill points cost.

[Maxstate]

I just don't see it being a problem. Such high level crossover as you're suggesting would indicate that the player would be very high level anyway, so they'd be a killing machine anyway.

Where did I suggest HIGH LEVEL crossovers? Luke and Kyle?

Luke couldn't friggin hold his own against the GHOST of a sith lord, let alone defeat one in the movies. Kyle had to re-learn the same thing over and over again 3 times before it finally sticked to him.

If they're high level, I don't see any problem with allowing them to specialize merc or jedi or something in between.

Well you certainly aren't seeing a problem with allowing them to specialize in something in between, but you are seeing a problem with letting them specialize in the other two.

Secondly, just because we don't always take your advice doesn't mean it's not an open project. :|

I must've not made myself clear enough, the emphasis goes on the JEDI in the OPEN JEDI PROJECT.

 

 

Max: when you are involved in a huge gang fight eg. 4 players and above, you normally concentrate on ONE person alone anyway. In which case, it's still a 1 on 1 situation. In fact, when playing Quake or any other shooter games for that matter, no one in the right mind will try to strike an enemy and when he fails to kill him, he'll then go for another one. You're just opening yourself to more attacks.

If someone happens to get out of my reach I'm not gonna say: "Oh, he's gone, I'm gonna sit down now.." ESPECIALLY not in a mod like OJP, where it doesn't matter if you die or live because ZING ZING respawn instantly!.

 

And Razor has a point. If a merc can be as powerful as you describe, then why can't the pure Jedi (assuming we've got more force powers and skills)? lol

I am the only one that read that he doesn't want to give Jedi any more credit and doesn't want them to be more powerful? How do you think Jedi should be more powerful when the gunner or crossclass can take everything the Jedi can take and more? Seriously?

Besides, we can "penalize" cross characters by adjusting skill points cost.

I don't agree with this but whatever.

[Lathain Valtiel]

What?

 

I'm easily the most frequent gun user we have so far who plays this mod with the exception of Jawa Bond. But guess what? I DON'T ACT IN ANY WAY MAX DESCRIBES, AND NEITHER DOES BOND! In about the ten-plus games I've played I've never once pulled out a lightsaber, and the two or so games I saw Bond he didn't do it either. My config is as follows:

 

- Rocket Launcher 3

- Bowcaster 3

- Flamethrower

- Seeker Drone

- Sentry Gun

- Cloaking Device (Is there a glitch with this? My holstered gun doesn't go invisible...)

 

- Force Seeing 1

- Force Absorb 3

 

Total points...

 

24 + 4 + 8 + 6 + 5 + 8 + 4 + 12 = 71 points.

 

Really the only big 'what the' is Absorb. It's a tad too powerful as it is because I don't notice it draining much of anything.

 

And actually, Jump 3 stinks. I don't use it. I don't use Jetpack either. I also don't use push, pull, or lightning 3 except as impulse buys for defense (they do block enemy uses of those powers, no?).

 

And frankly... so WHAT if you have to go into dueling mode? That's what it's there for! You can't reasonably expect an enemy to just watch and let you finish your duel when he can just kill you both when distracted.

 

It's BS for you to quote Luke and say 'If he hadn't focused on his powers solely he wouldn't be a Jedi Master', and then say my Obi-Wan example doesn't work, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SAME KIND OF EXAMPLE. I could just as easily say: "Luke is Luke, and he took awhile to develop his powers. I don't suppose you want us to take that long to develop Force ability?" We don't fight 'armies of creatures' either.c I already said that by choosing not to take gun skills you can spend points on Force skills, this is obvious and that's really the reward.

 

Obi-Wan didn't suddenly lose some power over the Force for pulling out a gun when the situation called for it, and he's the guy who gives the 'lightsaber only' mantra to Luke. As for Kyle Katarn, that's an 'intentional' extinguishing of his powers for fear of the Dark Side, the suppression was so great he had to actually go to the Valley of the Jedi and step into its core to regain them (where's the multiple power loss? I only see that he lost his powers after MOTS due to the suppression, and got them back in JO.). He didn't instantly lose gun skills then and there though, now did he? With all that in mind, your comment on Katarn does not work as he was a special case in all facets.

 

EDIT: As for your comments to UDM... no, you don't sit down. You pull out a long range weapon and you smite the retreating bastard from afar? Don't have one? Whoops, that's your fault.

[Maxstate]

What?

 

I'm easily the most frequent gun user we have so far who plays this mod with the exception of Jawa Bond. But guess what? I DON'T ACT IN ANY WAY MAX DESCRIBES, AND NEITHER DOES BOND! In about the ten-plus games I've played I've never once pulled out a lightsaber, and the two or so games I saw Bond he didn't do it either. My config is as follows:

I said "gunner" not "Jedi. You fight dirty but not that dirty, I agree. But this is what gunners do, and have done in my experience of fighting them.

 

 

And actually, Jump 3 stinks. I don't use it. I don't use Jetpack either. I also don't use push, pull, or lightning 3 except as impulse buys for defense (they do block enemy uses of those powers, no?).

The point isn't if you use it, the point is that it will be used and that it will make Jet fuel obsolete. Since you can for example use all of your jetfuel on a target, jump away or stay in the air as long as needed and then just finish them off with the regenerated jet fuel. There's tonnes of strategies that can be used with Jump 3 and I have seen them being used.

 

I know for a fact that I've RECENTLY (within the last 2 months) had more human to human OJP than anyone else here, I've seen strategies and

Force powers as well as gadgets being used in ways that you wouldn't expect.

This is what I'm talking about, I'm not talking about what Lathain did, I'm talking about what generic gunner/cross class #x can do.

 

I'm not opposed to crossclasses having force powers if they are given to them in moderation. Gunners can actually CHOOSE if they want to use their FP or not in a fight. In essence they don't need it, FP is a Jedi thing, and there was a fatigue threshold added at 10FP to stop Jedi from spazzing and running and jumping too much. Gunners won't have this problem as they can switch between Jet fuel and Jump 3 indefinetly to escape ANY kind of fight they want. Pure Jedi don't have this commodity, but this should not be a problem if this mod was as Movie realistic as Razor originally intended it to be.

 

I lately don't even know what he intended it to be, the perequisites for an idea to get in kept changing weekly, sometimes daily ":|".

 

 

And frankly... so WHAT if you have to go into dueling mode? That's what it's there for! You can't reasonably expect an enemy to just watch and let you finish your duel when he can just kill you both when distracted.

Going into dueling mode is like having one hand chopped off and getting told to go row a boat. You can't use Force powers, you have a distance handicap, you glow like a mofo, and most of all, anyone can wait untill your duel ends to quickly backstab you blow you up.

 

It's not fair that Jedi should be forced into duel mode to have a duel, if so, gunners should be forced in gun fight mode to have a gun fight.

 

It's BS for you to quote Luke and say 'If he hadn't focused on his powers solely he wouldn't be a Jedi Master', and then say my Obi-Wan example doesn't work, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SAME KIND OF EXAMPLE. I could just as easily say: "Luke is Luke, and he took awhile to develop his powers. I don't suppose you want us to take that long to develop Force ability?" We don't fight 'armies of creatures' either.c I already said that by choosing not to take gun skills you can spend points on Force skills, this is obvious and that's really the reward.

I was using the "training in something" analogy to explain how our points work, as that seems to be the general consensus among the players I play with each or each other day. I said hordes and armies of creatures because that's what the deal was in the movies, and as I remember, a lot of ideas from people didn't get through to OJP because they weren't movie-realistic enough, which leads me to believe that OJP wants to be a movie-realistic mod. In the movies, Jedi did do this, and yes they were known in using a BLASTER RIFLE OR PISTOL, but not detpacks, thermals, rocket launchers, flamethrowers, sentry droids or jetpacks. If they want too, that's fine, but all that time learning how to use something like that properly is going to keep them away from "Jedi Training", so they can train either of their "sides" but if they train one, the other will deteriorate, atrophy or if they're lucky, just not move.

 

The reward is having every path that is chosen, be it gunner or Jedi have some kind of benefit over the other.

Now I don't have a problem with cross classes, but they shouldn't GET that benefit, they shouldn't be the abundant type or path in OJP, and they shouldn't be sparked to choose that path either.

 

If they do, no problem, though in moderation.

 

Now I'm starting to see what you mean by high level... well...

Say I buy a bowcaster and a jetpack, I'll take another clip for the bowcaster.

That comes down to what, 11 points? And on the Beta server people start with 20 or 25, right? So as a "cross class" I can immediately buy one if not TWO LEVELS of force lightning!

 

If I ditch the jetpack I can buy all three levels AND have a bowcaster to finish someone off. Now I know you're gonna think Jedi will be able to defend against it and overcome the low level gunner, but that's a load of crock.

 

Another strategy I saw being used for anti-jedi killing was a gunner just casting lightning 3 whenever the jedi wanted to slash. And since the Jedi only has 63 DP, draining his DP is going to be very easy. And it can only become easier later on once you get more points.

 

 

Obi-Wan didn't suddenly lose some power over the Force for pulling out a gun when the situation called for it,

Where did I say he did? He pulled out a gun for a few seconds, I'm talking about people taking big guns. Big guns that require training and explanation to use in the starwars world, big guns that you can't just pickup and do something with.

The training time required to learn how to use these guns is a part of the skill buying process, but it should also further emulate the "time spent" by not allowing the person that did spend time learning how to use a gun, spend time as easy learning how to use Force or a lightsaber. It's logical.

 

and he's the guy who gives the 'lightsaber only' mantra to Luke.

No, he just says that he doesn't like the use of "crude" weapons such as blasters and prefers the more elegant lightsaber. You could interpret what he said in many different ways. As I've said before, Jedi using typical small arms like an e-11 or a pistol is fine by me, they're not at all that powerful, but why?

They're JEDI, unless in some predicament they lose their goddamn LIGHTSABER somewhere and can't get it back, I don't see the need for that.

But if they still want to do it, fine by me, light arms is okay. But if they want to start using rocket launchers and explosives and all that jazz, they're gonna have to sacrifice something.

 

As for Kyle Katarn, that's an 'intentional' extinguishing of his powers for fear of the Dark Side, the suppression was so great he had to actually go to the Valley of the Jedi and step into its core to regain them (where's the multiple power loss? I only see that he lost his powers after MOTS due to the suppression, and got them back in JO.)

I'll get back to you on that, dates long back.

 

He didn't instantly lose gun skills then and there though, now did he? With all that in mind, your comment on Katarn does not work as he was a special case in all facets.

What in JO? Ofcourse not, he was a trained mercenary, the whole POINT of him getting his powers back was that he DIDN'T SPEND the time necessary (as even Luke said in the cutscenes) to train them , but instead took the easy way out and just got them handed to him. And since he was a Jedi before this, he only needed a crash course in the basic powers to be able to use them again like he was supposed too.

[Tokakeke]

I fully agree with Max on this. While I don't feel my opinion has much weight here, as I've been away for some time, "gunners should be gunners, not forcewhoring Palpatine wannabes with a blaster rifle". There is no reason for gunners to be able to run around with full force powers and a bunch of heavy explosives. If OJP wants to move away from base and become its own mod, it needs to lay down some ground rules.

 

The "lol, get everything" force power mechanic used in base was bad enough, but it was based primarily on two things:

 

1. the game was a Q3 engine game, using Q3 type deathmatch scenarios. Deathmatches are fast paced games where you can run around picking up weapons and not have to worry too much about realism or canonicity.

 

2. Nobody wanted to have to specialize too much. It's a matter of retail. Kid sees guy with saber on box, sees guy wielding bowcaster on back. Expects this from SP, expects this from MP. Kid buys game, kid plays game, kid doesn't return game to store or write angry letters to devs about how they were only able to play as Joe Bob Jedi or Generic Gus Gunner. This plagued MB and killed its Full Authentic mode - everyone wants to be uber guy with all force and seventyhundred different kinds of rocket propelling firearms, while everyone else has a blaster pistol and 10 hp.

 

Imagine you're watching Episode 3, and all these clones are coming in on the Temple or something, and some Jedi walks up, pulls a rocket launcher off his back and blows up an entire squad. Not only would you think "wow, this is a really ****ty movie", you'd think, "wow, between solving interplanetary conflict and chopping up hundreds of battle droids, when did that guy learn to precisely aim, lock, and fire a sophisticated 15lb piece of heavy explosives"?

 

Feel free to rip this apart, but I just want to present my opinion on this.