PoiuyWired Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Well, jarjar aside PT is not as bad as you think. I do agree that the scripting/cting is not as good in some places, and the romance part is just, badly done. Its like, if that id how GL would act to a girl then there is no way there would be Mrs. GL unless GL persuades the girl with a huge wooden stick and drag her home. But I don't mind the more heroic and direct approach of things like Flight maneuvers and what not. I mean these are Jedis and droids mostly. Yes I like the way OT did it, despite the fact that things can be done so differently since its space with no gravity and many more things can be changed. But its a different war, so different approach is needed. Its a different atmosphere, cause IT IS DIFFERENT. There is a difference between a corrupted republic, and a powerful galactic empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatekeeper6838 Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Well, jarjar aside PT is not as bad as you think. I do agree that the scripting/cting is not as good in some places, and the romance part is just, badly done. Its like, if that id how GL would act to a then there is no way there would be Mrs. GL unless GL persuades the with a huge wooden stick and drag her home. But I don't mind the more heroic and direct approach of things like Flight maneuvers and what not. I mean these are Jedis and droids mostly. Yes I like the way OT did it, despite the fact that things can be done so differently since its space with no gravity and many more things can be changed. But its a different war, so different approach is needed. Its a different atmosphere, cause IT IS DIFFERENT. There is a difference between a corrupted republic, and a powerful galactic empire. You're right. It is different, and it's supposed to be different. I don't think different is a bad thing, but I think they could have pulled it off a little better. That doesn't mean the PT are bad movies, I just think they had more potential than they ended up showing. I do think I should mention what was done right in the PT, and there are several things that I think are worth mentioning. For one, I can safely say the light saber battle in Phantom Menace was phenomenal. It's one of those scenes that I'll watch by itself if I've got a few minutes here and there, even if I don't watch the rest of the movie. Attack of the Clones had some great scenes, namely the fight between Jango Fett and Obi Wan and the light saber duel against Count Dookou (spelling?). I even particularly enjoy the scene where the clone troops come in and rescue the outnumbered jedi by wasting the pathetic Trade Tederation and Geonosians. Even the sense of mystery and darker atmosphere in Ep. II is pulled off in a decent fashion. There are even some very scenic moments in Episode III, but after watching it several times I'm starting to think Epsiode III is my least favorite (next to Phantom)... not because of the storyline, but because of it's execution. Anikan's unbelievable, almost instantaneous turn to the Dark Side was disappointing. They did more in Episode II to make Anikan's transition to the darkside believable than in Episode III. The execution of order 66 (getting back to the original subject of this thread) is bad, as well as Darth Vader's lame behavior upon suiting up. And let's not forget that awful, pointless filler character General Grievous. Nevertheless, I still enjoyed the movie. I enjoyed all of them, and still do enjoy them, I just don't think they lived up to the originals. However, to be fair the PT had a lot to live up to and certainly deserve to be judged in their own right, OT aside. That being said, the PT are still good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I have to agree that without watching the EU(comics, tv animation, you know the whole drill) anakin's fall seems all too fast. That also makes a point. There are things in the PT series that are there assuming you are already in the know about some starwars stuff (and planty comments that are there only for the fans). That means, it is expacted that you understand the stories of OT before you walked into the theatre. Then again, it would be hard to understand for us people here. I mean, everyone here have watched the movies at least once, perhaps more. But there are people out there who did not even spend the time to sit and watch the whole OT before they start watching the PT, and there will be things that are confusing to them. (Yes I got this response from a friend when we all go watch PM the first time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatekeeper6838 Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 True. Not everyone who watches the prequels has necessarily seen the originals or been exposed to the EU. In fact, I have to admit that even I haven't read/seen a good chunk of the expanded universe stuff out there, aside from a few Star Wars EU books and games here and there (In a game of Star Wars Trivial Pursuit I wasted my friend in the trivia from the movies, but he had the upper hand in the EU trivia). There is a lot of EU material out there, and one of the things I don't like about the EU is that there are a lot of plot inconsistencies. This is understandable (even excusable) because there are so many different authors/game designers/producers, etc. that it would be impossible to have every book, tv show, game and comic connect perfectly. For that very reason, I don't consider the EU as having any authority on the actual storyline Lucas wrote. In other words, I don't think the EU has any bearing on the story of the two trilogies. That doesn't mean they aren't good stories, however. What I don't think is excusable is how George Lucas, who is the final authority when it comes to the movie story lines, failed to properly connect the two trilogies together. It's like they're loosely based on each other (like the EU) but there are still plot inconsistencies between the two trilogies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeToua Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 I would agree. they really didnt connect but were good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aner21 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Personaly I'm a fan of the OT but find the PT lacking. The thing is, most people saw the OT and know how it'll end. PT should've been carefully thought up, since its easy to make it dull and uninteresting. The PT's timetable is its own worse enemy. It's inadequate and a bit dull (I really saw no need to introduce young Anakin for the entire movie, the first half was more than enough, not to mention that jarjar "character") you could almost squeeze all the EpI and 1st half of Ep2 in one movie storiewise, 2nd half of Ep2 and 1st half Ep3 in another and actually make Anakin's fall to the dark side and the destruction of the entire Jedi Order something worth seeing instead of shoot, miss, hit, your dead. In under 10 minutes the Order ceases to exist and some characters had a really poor and underated death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Kai Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 What about poor Plo-Koon, he didn't even get a chance to use his lightsaber to defend himself, instead he was shot down...which by the way was shot way too easy. You'd think that a master of the council would have better force sensitivity to be able to sense being shot at Anyway, although the movie was kewl, order 66 did seem to make the jedi appear weak, even though they were taken by suprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellhawk Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 What about poor Plo-Koon, he didn't even get a chance to use his lightsaber to defend himself, instead he was shot down...which by the way was shot way too easy. You'd think that a master of the council would have better force sensitivity to be able to sense being shot at Anyway, although the movie was kewl, order 66 did seem to make the jedi appear weak, even though they were taken by suprise. i noticed that to... ki adi mundai was also a jedi master who was killed without to much effert. i mean shoudent he be able to sense there trying to kill him rather then sit there signaling like a drunken lindsey lohanhs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Phobos Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 In my opinion, the execution of order 66 was really really bad. The clones could have done it without any losses and even Yoda and Obi One could have been killed. Clone trooper losses? Theres more where they came from! Take Ki Adi Mundu. The clones get Order 66 and what do they do? They go stand behind him and reload, one by one. I mean, wtf? They could have reloaded a long time before and if they had to reload now, reload together, not one after the other... even a gungan could have taken some clones with him now... But hey died right? Mission accomplished...and he only took a one or two clone troopers out with him. I expected a little better than that. And what about obi-one? Instead of using a large group of snipers to take him down and some heavy troopers with bazookas to fisnih it, COdy decides to take ONE, SINGLE heavy trooper!!! Why? In the battle of Utapau there were THOUSANDS of clones... Yeop...that was sloppy. Yoda at last. A clone trooper walks toward a Scout Trooper to tell him "Let's kill Yoda". A Scout Trooper. He has a damn sniperrifle!!! And what do they doe? They walk towards Yoda and stop one meter behind him... Again that was just plain dumb but we're talking about two of our main characters here. Order 66 went off (largely) spectacular in my opinion. Perfect timing and almost every single Jedi dead, I think that's pretty good. Empire 4 teh win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I was always thinking that Maybe the trust and close friendly relationship between Cody and ObiWan works both ways. Subconsciously Cody is trying to help ObiWan so he send less than effective firepower to hunt down his former friend. Remember, that some clone units would go as far as protecting the Jedis rather than executing order 66. In the end it is a win-win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMuffin Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I was always thinking that Maybe the trust and close friendly relationship between Cody and ObiWan works both ways. Subconsciously Cody is trying to help ObiWan so he send less than effective firepower to hunt down his former friend. Remember, that some clone units would go as far as protecting the Jedis rather than executing order 66. In the end it is a win-win situation. Yes, like in the Vader novel where the jedi (forgot his name) is actually saved by his commandos. Perhaps the commanders, like Cody, had more individuality left than the normal clones (at least enough for his friendship to take some place). Of course that's all speculation and we'll never know. When people say that some Jedi, like Ki Adi Mundi, died too easily, they forget that they really did not expect to get shot by their own soldiers. Even a Jedi with uber reflexes and all would be stunned for a moment to see the soldiers he fought with for months turn against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aner21 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Still, we ARE talking of a universe were force sensitives can see the future. The way it was handled was ... poor. The only person who had a fighting chance was a youngling at the temple, and we all know who his daddy is... Ayla Secura's death was another one that ticked me. the clone had time to receive the call, raise its weapon against her, take aim, fire and she didn't "sense" it some how?? She was standing next to him and nothing? A ripple, a disturbance in the force, something??? Its not has if she was fighting someone with the necessary training and discipline to disguise the instant mental change that happened when the order was received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Well, Hence many Jedis got away from what we know it. And in defence of Secura, She did notice something is wrong, but is distracted by other things. People like A'Sharad Hett escaped in other ways also. And, many of those Jedis would escape the initial clone attack to be hunted down later. Some would just decide to live like non jedis. Btw, to the clones this is just an order like always, with no special emotion attached to it, making it much harder to sense, especially when jedis do not usually like to peek into others mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 As I recall, the DS cast a pall over the future and made things harder for the jedi in general. As it takes but a moment to pull a/many triggers, the element of surprise coupled w/a moments hesitation is more than enough to do even a jedi (especially a distracted one) in. As to Anakin's fall, he had already fallen pretty far by the last movie. Since several years have passed between AOTC and RoTJ, it's not so surprising that he'd fall so "quickly". But that "Nooooo..." at the end was sadly pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 He should have yelled "D'oh" Homer Style!!! And yes a split-second's hesitation is enough for anyone to be dead, Jedi or not-jedi. Plus, as said before, a jedi in a vehicle is roufhly only equal to the vehicle in its top performance. Just because there is a jedi inside doesn't turn your starfighter into a Starscream or other things funky(even though that would be cool). Plus, invincable vehicles due to special pilots is the area of Anime, not Jedis, so no playing Zeta Gundam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 Yeah, Homer as Vader and Burns as the Emperor. Homer:Where's Marge? Burns:You killed her Simpson. Homer: D'oh d'oh d'oh....(see's a doghnut)...mmmm, doughnuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garm_bel_iblis Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 I read somewhere that originally Order 66 was supposed to be executed a lot differently. The theory was (I think) that Darth Sidious was so powerful with the Force (and with the use of kyber crystals, if you get into the expanded universe) that he would actually telepathically influence the minds of the clone troops that were all over the galaxy at a moment in time (using the Force to transcend space) and force them to kill the Jedi generals they were being lead by. This alternate story also supported Sidious's decision to eliminate the droid armies and instead to have a sentient one, one that he could manipulate and control using the Force, whereas with droids he could do nothing which wouldn't have appealed to him. This alternate theory would have also been supported when reading the Thrawn trilogy, when Thrawn explains to his second-in-command, Captain Pellaeon, that the reason for the Empire's defeat at Endor was mostly due to the death of Sidious. Without his presence to boost the morale and coordination of the Imperials thru the Force, the Rebels were able to destroy The Executor and other Star Destroyers and send the Imperials scrambling. I thought that version of the execution of Order 66 was a lot more interesting then Sidious just sending an order to clone commanders from his office (lol). It would have also reminded us that Sidious was "clouding the vision" of the Jedi and also influencing and controlling the weak-minded Senators thru the Force. I always liked that version too because it showed the audience that Palpatine was manipulative, conniving, and power hungry and he was REALLY good at it, the best at it. That was where his true strength really was, manipulation and control, not in combat so much (as shown by Mace Windu and Yoda). He worked from the shadows to bring the Republic and the galaxy to his mercy and brought that structure crumbling down around the Jedi until there was nothing they could do to stop it. It was also the reason he needed Vader to be his errand boy, Sidious works behind-the-scenes and he needed a lapdog for the more "hands on" work, someone to dispatch his enemies and the strong-minded people he couldn't control thru the Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL_Sudentor Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 In my opinion, the execution of order 66 was really really bad. The clones could have done it without any losses and even Yoda and Obi One could have been killed. Take Ki Adi Mundu. The clones get Order 66 and what do they do? They go stand behind him and reload, one by one. I mean, wtf? They could have reloaded a long time before and if they had to reload now, reload together, not one after the other... even a gungan could have taken some clones with him now... And what about obi-one? Instead of using a large group of snipers to take him down and some heavy troopers with bazookas to fisnih it, COdy decides to take ONE, SINGLE heavy trooper!!! Why? In the battle of Utapau there were THOUSANDS of clones... Yoda at last. A clone trooper walks toward a Scout Trooper to tell him "Let's kill Yoda". A Scout Trooper. He has a damn sniperrifle!!! And what do they doe? They walk towards Yoda and stop one meter behind him... Why did it sucked, it doesn't matter if the one that was trying to kill yoda was a scout if you say he was standing one metre from him. And remeber on utapau the were still battling the separatists. And if your canon is so accurate why use something else, and also don't forget that snipers shoot on targets that move slowly or don't move. That beast from obi did ran very fast he. And i never have seen one heavy trooper from the clones!! And you are right with ki adi mundi's death, they could have reloaded all together, but it makes that scene more attractive when there is a little evading of the lasers to make the jedi don't look to weak. (this was already a scene on felucia whit that blue jedi woman thing) i don't know her name right now. I agree, it could have been better but it certainly doesn't suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellhawk Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 wait wait... rember in episode 2 were mace askes yoda... shall we tell the senate our ability to sense has become usless? that may contribute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Phobos Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Take Ki Adi Mundu. The clones get Order 66 and what do they do? They go stand behind him and reload, one by one. I mean, wtf? They could have reloaded a long time before and if they had to reload now, reload together, not one after the other... even a gungan could have taken some clones with him now... Well they finished the job right? Sure Mundi was able to waste a clone or two but it could have been way worse for them. And what about obi-one? Instead of using a large group of snipers to take him down and some heavy troopers with bazookas to fisnih it, COdy decides to take ONE, SINGLE heavy trooper!!! Why? In the battle of Utapau there were THOUSANDS of clones... Well a single heavy trooper has a lot of firepower. Obi should have been dead and even though it wasn't confirmed on the Clones side, they still marched around forever trying to find him. To put it simply, Obi Wan had to tuck his tail and run. Yoda at last. A clone trooper walks toward a Scout Trooper to tell him "Let's kill Yoda". A Scout Trooper. He has a damn sniperrifle!!! And what do they doe? They walk towards Yoda and stop one meter behind him... You have a point here but Order 66 was largely successful save for Vader's injuries and Obi Wan/Yoda escaping. All key plot points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Macca Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 In my opinion, the execution of order 66 was really really bad. The clones could have done it without any losses and even Yoda and Obi One could have been killed. Take Ki Adi Mundu. The clones get Order 66 and what do they do? They go stand behind him and reload, one by one. I mean, wtf? They could have reloaded a long time before and if they had to reload now, reload together, not one after the other... even a gungan could have taken some clones with him now... And what about obi-one? Instead of using a large group of snipers to take him down and some heavy troopers with bazookas to fisnih it, COdy decides to take ONE, SINGLE heavy trooper!!! Why? In the battle of Utapau there were THOUSANDS of clones... Yoda at last. A clone trooper walks toward a Scout Trooper to tell him "Let's kill Yoda". A Scout Trooper. He has a damn sniperrifle!!! And what do they doe? They walk towards Yoda and stop one meter behind him... Yes, and what are the chances of Anakin attempting to leap over Obi-Wan's head to gain the "high-ground"? What are the chances of Darth Maul simply standing, motionless, after Obi-Wan had leaped over his head? What are the chances of Anakin having a bad dream about Padme? What are the chances of Palpatine being elected as Supreme Chancellor after the dissolution of Chancellor Valorum? What are the chances of Grievous opting to fight Obi-Wan alone, after jumping down in front of a massacre of droids? Jesus Christ; just try to enjoy the film for what it is, as opposed to sitting at a computer dissecting it, shot-for-shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druganator Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 did anyone notice that the Mandalorians were enemies of the republic for thousands of years if not longer (the taungs were grey skinned rivals of the humans at Coruscaunt and they fought each other but the humans won and kicked out the taungs) and jedi master Sifo-Dias managed to make them the army of the republic? isnt that a bit weird to take one of their longest enemies and make them the face of your army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpentine Cougar Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 Never really thought of it like that, I guess. Well, there's irony for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@RS Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 Well, Mandolorians are mercenaries so they work for the highest bidder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 They weren't nescisarily mercenaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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