GarfieldJL Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286521,00.html Chavez has lost his mind, he's already a dictator and now he's trying to pick a fight with the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Don’t you have to have a mind before you can lose it? http://www.guardian.co.uk/venezuela/story/0,,2111499,00.html Didn’t get where he was trying to pick a fight with the US, but more preparing for what his paranoid mind foresees, a US invasion. If the US oil companies were running things he might have a point, but since they’re not we have bigger fish to fry. http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN2529866220070625 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share Posted June 26, 2007 Seriously, I'm more inclined to believe he's in more danger from his own people than from the United States unless he actually attacks the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 He's just doing what just about every dictator does. Build up a foreign boogey man as a means to galvanize whatever support he can and distract them from the bs he's trying to pull off at home. The tactic is even referenced when getting the SM on Kashyyyk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Galt Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 If he fights America, he will lose. Period. So who wants to start betting on how long the war will last? I say about 12 hours, ala Grenada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share Posted June 26, 2007 Well the big thing is we wouldn't want to kill civilians, otherwise it would be more like 30 minutes or less the time it would take a bunch of tactical nukes to travel to Venezuela. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 If he fights America, he will lose. Period. So who wants to start betting on how long the war will last? I say about 12 hours, ala Grenada. Fighting is no good, he won't do that. A permanent state of fear is much more useful to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredi Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 If he fights America, he will lose. Period. So who wants to start betting on how long the war will last? I say about 12 hours, ala Grenada. I dont think so ... If he enters in war so dose Bolivia,Ecuador and gatemala to help HUgo chavez. ohh and meaby Cuba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Galt Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 I dont think so ... If he enters in war so dose Bolivia,Ecuador and gatemala to help HUgo chavez. ohh and meaby Cuba If he actually decides to declare war on the United States I pity anyone who decides to stand with him. If he did offer a formal declaration of war it'd be a wonderful excuse to mobilize the economy and finish our business in the middle east before things really get out of hand over there. For the record, the US hasn't OFFICIALLY been at war since World War II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Somehow I think it's unlikely that anyone in the US legislature will support another declaration of war again anytime soon without an extremely good reason. If Chavez wishes to posture, he can. He will look silly when we fail to invade, however - but of course, we will always be on the verge of invading, won't we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Galt Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Somehow I think it's unlikely that anyone in the US legislature will support another declaration of war again anytime soon without an extremely good reason. If Chavez wishes to posture, he can. He will look silly when we fail to invade, however - but of course, we will always be on the verge of invading, won't we. As I said before, the US hasn't actually been in a diplomatically recognized state of war anywhere since 1945. and note that I said "If he DOW's us." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredi Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Chaves has the best airplains in America... he has Brasilian airplane technology added with Spanish technology .... he can kick american a** in an air combat ... but by troops he will defenetly lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Galt Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Chaves has the best airplains in America... he has Brasilian airplane technology added with Spanish technology .... he can kick american a** in an air combat ... but by troops he will defenetly lose. I don't think anything produced by the Spaniards or Brasilians could top the USAF; it is the most technologically advanced air force in the world. EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Venezuela#Embargo And don't forget NATO: A declaration of war against one member is a declaration of war against the entire organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk102 Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 "Mr Chávez's speech came on the eve of a trip to Russia, Belarus and Iran, hosts who share much of his antipathy towards Washington."* Chavez is crazy like a fox. He timed his trip to coincide with Russia's bristling over the proposed missile defense shield in Poland and the Czech republic. Putin will be traveling to Washington to meet with Bush afterwards*. Hopefully their talks will ease some tensions that Chavez is trying to inflame. "Chavez has said he hopes to put the "finishing touches" on an agreement to purchase from Belarus an integrated air defense system with a 200-300-kilometer range (125-200 miles)."* Meanwhile Iran is under scrutiny for its possible role in helping Hamas in Gaza and there's a resolution in the House of Representative to toughen sanctions. Condoleeza Rice is holding to the demands for suspension of Iran's nuclear program as she meets with French, British and German diplomats. I'm not sure what effect Chavez could have meeting with Iran other than finding a sympathetic ear from another oil-rich country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caius Fett Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Hi Everyone I have been reading the forums for awhile now but I just had to weigh in on this one. First of all just so you all know where I'm coming from I am a member of the US Air Force and I have 10 years of service. I wonder padawan if you have heard of the US's F-22? Well if not the F-22 is the worlds first supersonic Stealth Fighter. There isn't a airplane in the world that can stand up to it. Fact not just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Meh, Chavez used to be this charismatic leader that you could follow to hell. Honestly, you have to see one of his speeches on TV, understand a bit of spanish (or if you know another latin language, it shouldn't be too hard) and listen and look to him. Honestly, I would never be convinced by anything Bush says, but Chavez gives a good show and has quite a presence. Hell, I would have gone with him on a crazy crusade...There's a reason why he's still in power. Nevertheless, the figure is quite controversial even in his own country. Families are often split because of some supporting Chavez and others being detractors. I saw a documentary recently, which spoke of how Chavez wanted to unify South America in a Simon Bolivar way in order to offer a counter power to Washington. Strange man indeed. He has become a strange megalomaniac dictator, bent on achieving his own ideological goals rather then taking care of the internal problems of his own country. He stands no chance against the US army. Anyone remember the Falklands? How the UK destroyed Argentina? Same thing will happen, I predict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentScope001 Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 What makes you think he's waging war PHYSICALLY? President Hugo Chavez urged soldiers on Sunday to prepare for a guerrilla-style war against the United States, saying that Washington is using psychological and economic warfare as part of an unconventional campaign aimed at derailing his government. No guns. No tanks. Just mere manlipuation, according to Chavez. Something that Chavez can counter, unlike than a military invasion. Before you start screaming that Chavez is an evil dictator however, note this: Political Rights Score: 4 Civil Liberties Score: 4 Status: Partly Free See? According to Freedom House, Venuelza is a free nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 See? According to Freedom House, Venuelza is a free nation. And never quote Freedom House. Their methodology is continuously contested. Although I don't disagree. Protests are obviously allowed and not as heavily reprimended as in other parts of the world. It's not the most free, but not the worst either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Galt Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Saying that a nation is "Partly Free" is kinda like saying that someone is "Partly dead," at least if you're someone who leans libertarian. Besides, I'd say that the Freedom House analysis was done before Chavez nationalized the media and the oil companies and decided to scrap the terms of office to become President for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredi Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Come on people ... Hugo Chavez is General of the Venezuelan army .... do you actualy think that if theres a war it will last minutes?.... plus let me remind its guerrilla .... now what happened to the U.S.A the last time they fighted vs a guerrilla?.... ohh I think they losed vs Vietnam.... so I think It will be very dificult plus Venezuela has allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Saying that a nation is "Partly Free" is kinda like saying that someone is "Partly dead," at least if you're someone who leans libertarian. Besides, I'd say that the Freedom House analysis was done before Chavez nationalized the media and the oil companies and decided to scrap the terms of office to become President for life. For the last part I agree, but for the media and oil companies, no. Nationalized media is nothing special. Public owned stations are present thoughout the western world. Though the Americans usually have a strange hate of anything ''government funded'', there's nothing inherently wrong with that. Only a matter of point of view. Now when he closed a network that was vocally against him, that's another matter. As for nationalised oil companies, what's wrong with that? There's plenty of nationalised ressources in the world and it isn't ''wrong'' or against freedom or anything. What I'm trying to say is that Freedom House's analysis is based on their opinion of what is free and what is not. Unlike what some Americans like to believe, the United States of America is not the ''free-iest'' country in the world. None is really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caius Fett Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Come on people ... Hugo Chavez is General of the Venezuelan army .... do you actualy think that if theres a war it will last minutes?.... plus let me remind its guerrilla .... now what happened to the U.S.A the last time they fighted vs a guerrilla?.... ohh I think they losed vs Vietnam.... so I think It will be very dificult plus Venezuela has allies. We didn't loose in Vietnam we withdrew from Vietnam. While it is true that Vietnam wasn't as successfull as it could have been, that was mainly due to a weak president who wouldn't allow the Millitary to conduct the war as it should have been. IE Limited Warfare. If we had been allowed to conduct the war like the Generals wanted it would have been a far more successfull war. Somehow I don't forsee our current president doing that. Noone is denying that Venezuela has allies but IMO there is no way the US is going to invade Venezuela unless they attack us first. However dont forget that the US is a signatorie of Nato so if war was to break out the Us wouldn't exactly be without allies either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Galt Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Come on people ... Hugo Chavez is General of the Venezuelan army .... do you actualy think that if theres a war it will last minutes?.... plus let me remind its guerrilla .... now what happened to the U.S.A the last time they fighted vs a guerrilla?.... ohh I think they losed vs Vietnam.... so I think It will be very dificult plus Venezuela has allies. We withdrew from Viet Nam because of the f***ing protestors and politicians. The Viet Nam conflict itself, as well as Korea, and at the present Iraq, show the ineffectiveness of the "Partial War" doctrines currently in vogue internationally. If a dangerous enough situation arose, the 1.3 million professional soldiers currently in the US military are only the tip of the iceburg, so to speak, in terms of manpower. Of course, public will has always been the weakest part of the American war effort. Dealing with the likes of Chavez would most likely entail a quick strike from a couple of special forces teams to capture or kill the man himself, allowing a quick and relatively bloodless coup to occur to re-establish democracy in Venezuela. With personality cults like the Chavez regime, cutting off the head generally causes the rest to die rather quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 but by troops he will defenetly lose. remind its guerrilla .... now what happened to the U.S.A the last time they fighted vs a guerrilla?.... ohh I think they losed vs Vietnam.... so I think It will be very dificult plus Venezuela has allies. First you wrote the US would get their butts kicked in the air, but win the ground war. Then you wrote the US would lose a guerrilla war against Venezuela. Which one do you feel with you head is true? The American Solider did not lose Vietnam and neither did the American people, Vietnam was lost by the American leadership or lack there of, Johnson and Nixon lost that war. Just like Korea the American solider won the battles. The Korean War or police action is still going on. So we can’t say we won, loss or tied it as only a cease fire has been declared. American military aviation is second to none, but let say for argument sake that Venezuela did have superior technology. We have the best trained and most well disciplined pilots and Navy aviators in the world. I’d still give the advantage to the US military. The only way this war would ever happen is if Venezuela attacked the US. The world may see the lack of the resolve of the American civilian population in Iraq as an indication that we no longer have the resolve necessary to fight a war. Don’t be fooled, if we were still slogging around the mountains of Afghanistan hunting down the planners of 9/11 a large majority would be behind that fight. The problem with Iraq is the same as Vietnam the American people do not understand the real reason we are fighting there and most of us see no connection between the attacks on American soil and Iraq. No, if we were attacked by a known enemy you would see America’s true resolve much as the Japanese saw it during WW II. There would not peace until we received the full unconditional surrender of Venezuela and any other nation that joined her ranks. None of this will ever happen, Chavez may have lost his mind, but I don’t believe he is completely stupid. Unlike what some Americans like to believe, the United States of America is not the ''free-iest'' country in the world. None is really. QFE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Galt Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 the United States of America is not the ''free-iest'' country in the world. None is really. Yes, but it used to be, and there are some people in America, such as myself, who would like to see America be the "free-iest" again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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