after 4 hours of sleep...

[Rtemis]

Jedi would have to use their innate heat-shielding Force power to survive the initial blast. Anakin on mustafar. His strong connection to the Force allowed him to survive long enough for Sidious to rescue him. It can be made to drain force power, but its not very scientific.

 

P.S. Who wants gunner vs. jedi now? On-the-site observation often yield better result than speculation from afar.

[Rendar1970]

I know im new so bear with me if these points have been beat to death. But when it comes to gunner vs jedi combat there are two issues that just bother me.

 

1. Deflection: You have to swing to deflect, and everytime you swing, you lose dp/force so you cant deflect as much. Right now the cost vs effectiveness of deflecting is not balanced. Its much easier and efficient to just charge the gunner and slash at him. Which brings me to point 2.

 

2: Jedi can just run at you full charge and even if your hitting them, they can usually reach you and slash without much consequence. Solution, some kinda pause/slowdown to jedi that are hit. I think it would be great if the jedi were shot in mid swing that it would just slow them down to walking speed for a second and maybe even give them some mishap. This would make it so gunners can lay suppressive fire from far away, but once the jedi gets close they need to aim and time there shots.

 

So basically

 

1: better method and reason to use deflection

2: Jedi are slowed down and gain mishap when shot during a swing.

[Rtemis]

One significant factor that SHOULD affect the performance of combatants during a saber vs. gunnery combat is the saber form. In my observation, I see that every form is equally effective against a blaster enemy. Be it Soresu, Ataru, Makashi, there are no penalty made when fighting against gunners. Meaning, saber form is only for saber duel. There, the significance of the role of gunners in OJP fails. There should be variations in deflection/dodge performances in each form. Personally, i think the overall effectiveness should be varied in this order: Soresu > Shi-icho > Juyo/Djem so > Ataru/Niman > Makashi.

[Rtemis]

There is a problem. Since it is very easy to learn lightsaber forms, all the jedi need to do is use Soresu when he's fighting against gunner, and revert to whatever form he prefers to use after he's done with it. I think that is the main reason why jedi usually have the upperhand when fighting against pure gunner, because each lightsaber form requires only 1 point, while a gunner needs to allocate 13 points just for a blaster rifle. Added to that, to protect himself from force powers, the gunner is forced to go hybrid,

having to learn level 3 absorb at minimum. That will put further restriction the gunner's choice of arsenal. Giving level progression mechanics to saber forms might balance it out, say, level 1 blue form 5 points, level 2 blue form 8 points, etc., but that will mean very massive code work.

[Maxstate]

Deflection accuracy is measured and upgraded with every level you buy worth of saber defense, slashing initiates manual deflect which improves its accuracy a lot, but it isn't mandatory.

 

With the new changes, those days are over. Gunners actually have the upper hand right now.

 

Saber forms are situational strategic tools, while I'm still here no saber form will be better than another except for the situation it specializes in.

 

 

Edit:

 

No! Jedi need to buy saber defense to protect themselves and they have to spend points if they want to use force powers against a gunner. Lightsaber forms don't modify anything even remotely related to deflection so I don't know where you got that idea from. Absorb isn't needed if you're a good gunner, we've added in the ability to shoot from the ground which should absolve gunners from buying absorb.

[Rtemis]

I was just drawing comparison between a jedi's ability to fight, and a gunner's ability fight. Basically, after just 1 point on shiicho and 9 point on saber defense, and level 3 pull and jump, the jedi is ready to go. Three key combat capabilities, Move(jump), Compromise(pull and saber defense), and Kill(lightsaber), are fulfilled that way. But not for gunner. It is extremely hard to kill a jedi with just blaster rifle, even at max level. Jump pack and flame thrower will be mandatory. And to give them chance to stun a jedi for a moment, an explosive gadget will be needed. And unlike jedi, a gunner's usage of points does not increase DP. Sometimes it feels much better to just have flamethrower + jet pack + pistol level 2 + seeker alone, because shield seems to function better than DP. Unless if you put shield there just as a show and i am having biased ideas.

 

The point is getting moot, though, because we cannot test which class is better powered unless there will be a duel between equally skilled jedi and gunners.

 

And I didn't mean that saber forms are modifying deflection capability; i was saying that they SHOULD modify deflection capability. But since it involves scrapping of saber defense and massive editing of OJP code, it will be very difficult to apply. And right, saber forms are strategic tools, but only against another saber. To outsiders, it 'looks' as if applying OJP system on gunner vs. jedi situation was made as an after thought. Whatever your saber form maybe, as long as you have level 3 saber defense and much dp, you will be very much protected.

 

And another point. Unlike jedi, gunners do not have infinite ammo. To replenish ammo, they must die.

[Maxstate]

I'd prefer a level 3 e-11 and a jetpack, which with the new dll's would cost about 15 or 16 points to a jedi with saber defense if it came down to a duel. The only reason left to play a jedi now is because it's more fun.

 

The ammo argument is pretty much bull****, because with the amount of ammo you carry you can kill off at least 25 jedi before needing to reload. The ammo argument, ironically, is used by gunners that get killed a lot. A seeker has infinite ammo, sentry has infinite ammo, jetpack has iniinite fuel, pistol has infinite ammo etc. etc. Jedi need to get up close to actually do any damage to a skilled gunner, so it pretty much evens out.

 

You seem to be suffering a lot from not-playing-with-other-players-itis, it's a common OJP-only illness that has a fairly simple cure. You tell me the date and time you can play, and I'll kick your butt with any gun you'd like.

[Rtemis]

The amount of ammo you are talking about is assuming that a gunner has level 3 on weapons he is using. And you sure as hell wont be able to kill 25 jedi with ammo you carry, even if you duel them one-by-one. And don't think that infiniteness of some of a gunner's gadgets hasnt occurred to me. The problem is that it makes the gunner very dependent on seeker and sentry. But let's talk about this when we are dueling each other. I have time right now. I will be available during work days from 5 a.m. - 11 a.m., US time. During weekends i will have whole day. Right now a hurricane 230 km away chickened our school administrators off so we are staying home.

[JRHockney*]

please bare in mind that most servers play non-duel maps and maps that have plenty of ammo to pick up. I only have mine set to that duel map because I have to play on the same computer that my server is on and too big of maps give bad fps or even crashes when I join. Your mostly on my server so thats most of the problem as far as ammo is concerned

[Maxstate]

How's in 2.5 hours from now?

[Rtemis]

Jeez. The hurricane broke some power conduit in our geothermal plant so we had temporary power failure. Anyway, I can play right now.

[Maxstate]

Meet you at the EuroOJP/Oktoberfest server?

[Rtemis]

Either there or OJP Code Server because the latter is smaller. I will be available for just 2 more hours.

[Maxstate]

I'm going there now.

[Doctor Shaft]

The flamethrower having a set duration is a good idea. As it stands now, it's really just a "Sith Lightning-Lite" gadget that toggles on and off at will. If you made that stall saber swings, that really would be a "win button".

 

Set duration would limit that, but the other problem would be multiple flamethrowers. One guy commits. Then another. Then another. Jedi is stalled if you work together enough.

 

Every move needs a counter. If flamethrower were a counter to stalling Jedi's from attacking, there needs to be a risk attached to that as well.

 

I found it interesting in the film that Jango didn't use his flamethrower more often. Perhaps the current flamethrower has to large a cone of influence and duration. Perhaps if it were more of a weapon that did high damage the longer you stayed in the cone, but also had a slightly thinner cone so that you could quickly evade, or at least only take minimal damage initially?

 

Or, perhaps the weapon should have not only a duration, but a set time before it activates. Example:

 

1.) Activate flamethrower. Like sentry gun, needs 1 to 2 seconds of heat up time.

 

2.) Flamethrower blasts out. Opponent has about half a second or so to get out of cone before damage multiplies and fries target.

 

3.) 1.5 second duration. Then flamethrower "runs out of fuel".

 

4.) Cool down for 5 seconds or so.

 

Another thing to consider is making it force susceptible. In the Clone Wars cartoon, Obi-Wan was faced with that freakish bounty hunter who used both a needle-gun and a flamethrower. With enough prep time, Obi-Wan was able to redirect the flame, and cause the needles to fail. Maybe the flame could even be shoved back at the user at times, causing them to bake instantly?

 

Those are my thoughts. Make the flamethrower far more effective, but apply both an appropriate amount of time to anticipate the move (and also force the user to think about when to use it), and attach enough risk that it can't simply be used all the time, hence turning it into "just another gun". But, if used correctly, a Jedi not only loses an opportunity to cut, but may also find themselves near instantly killed.

[Rtemis]

That's a code work more massive than Sophia Cathedral you are talking about. But be reminded that flamethrower shares fuel with jetpack. 1.5 second duration is too short. Canonically, jet packs have 20 3-second bursts. Enough to propel the user few hundred feet. It is logical that flamethrower will last longer than 3 seconds, because it uses less fuel per second.

[Wytchking]

It doen't actually seem that hard to code other than the force being able to affect the flame, delays and timers aren't massively difficult to code (or at least thats what I've found in a short forray into coding recently). I personally like the idea of the damage multiplying.

[razorace]

I like the idea of a windup pause for the framethrower. It would be pretty easy to add a "cool" noise that indicates to other players that you're starting to flame.

 

But, on the other hand, making the flames push back into the gunner would be very hard to pull off.