Social Experiment 1a: Linux for the blind mice

[Astrotoy7]

I have a business lease pc which is due for return in march. It is currently used by the step-brats and occasionally my gf. It currently runs vista x86, with specs thus:

 

AMD 3200+

750MB RAM

150GB SATA HDD

Geforce 6200TC

 

I am planning to install a linux variant, purely to test how some very non tech users will fare, without prior knowledge or assistance from me using it.

 

I am planning to Use kubuntu gutsy gibbon, as it sounds cool and involves monkeys, who share my affinity for bananas

 

From my understanding, installing it from the dektop cd coems with everything you will need ?? ie. it has its own inbuilt media player and browser, though of course i could install FF in there if I can be bothered.

 

can anyone also recommend a comprehensive codec pack to handle any vids that may be played.

 

will report back on how it goes

 

mtfbwya

 

ps- upon the experiment's conclusion, Im going to send the lease pc back to base with linux on it. It was the incomptetence of technicians working on this lease pc 3 years ago that led to me DIY-ing in the first place What better way to show them the all conquering nature of DIY!

[Sabretooth]

At last, the Astro bows before the might of OPEN SOURCE!!!!

 

I praise Kubuntu because it runs fast on my medieval system, and otherwise, it quite frankly has nothing going for it. KDE 4, coming out later this month will kick ass, though, so it's best to keep KDE around. It comes in with Konqueror, which sucks ass. Also, the Adept Package Manager can't hold a candle to Synaptic. Oh, and Pidgin > Kopete. So...

 

You'd be better off with Ubuntu Gutsy, as it comes with Firefox, Synaptic and Pidgin all included. Oooh, ooh, it has Compiz-Fusion in-built, so you can get all the uber-eye-candy you keep hearing about. Also, Ubuntu is easier to get used to than Kubuntu, and easier overall. Best option: Get Ubuntu Gutsy, install Kubuntu over it later on. They share the same kernel, so it's virtually the same OS in two flavours (and it's not even dual boot! )

 

As for the codecs, that's a bummer. I use VLC to play the more obscure formats, or heck, video in general, but jmac, Ray or the others can help you there. I'm using Linux Mint right now and I love its in-built codec support, though. Just install and bang, you can start playing **** right there. This is also an option you'll want to consider - it's based on Ubuntu, completely compatible with it, just slightly easier to use and has a green colour.

[Astrotoy7]

very good sabrez I had played with dapper drake on an old lappie so im not as uninitiated as you may think

 

ubuntu gutsy it is ...

 

mtfbwya

[El Sitherino]

If your goal is non-techy integration, throw in Automatix2 on the install list. It'll give easier option to install non-essential, but still good to have items (non-free codecs for general playback, etc.).

[Ray Jones]

I think I use xine at the moment.

[Astrotoy7]

thanks for the info sithy and ray. Just waiting for my bandwidth to kick back into full gear(tmrw) so I can finish downloading the .iso and off I go.

 

These are some very non tech punters, the type who are either too dull or to lazy to know that your need to click the drop down box to select a network printer...etc

 

I think they take it for granted that they have a well oiled, highly optimised rig made and maintained for them. Time to use their non techness to test some of the eternal questions Ive always had about linux.

 

any e-torment and e-suffering I cause them in the process is a bonus

 

mtfbwya

[Astrotoy7]

so far Im very pleased with it, but it hasnt been used by teh drooling masses. I was quite impressed with how it tuned into my windows network, and seems to be sharing my network printer well

 

Now Im just fiddling with the aforementioned eye candy because the default brown is pretty for only so long.

 

mtfbwya

[Ray Jones]

Maybe you want to check out Sabayon as well, it is really all desktop-ish and such.

[Sabretooth]

Now Im just fiddling with the aforementioned eye candy because the default brown is pretty for only so long.

GNOME's skins aren't half bad, but the real eye-candy and countless Aero-clones are available on Compiz-Fusion's Emerald. Install it via Synaptic, and install compiz-config-settings-manager, while you're at it (if you haven't already). That is what gives you all the cool ****, man.

[Astrotoy7]

i am a bit drained at the moment, but this part of it is proving a bit fo a chore - noy used to fiddling with cmd boxes...

 

sabre - since stinger is now the champion of vista x64, I dub thee tech areas Linux Champion > thus :

*what is synaptic

*I cant seem to get compiz setting up - isnt it meant to be included in GG

*I would be interested in an aero clone, all the better to fool the kiddies

*is linux all command boxes....even to uninstall stuff !! that would be tiresome

 

mtfbwya

[Ray Jones]

Synaptic is a cool GUI for apt, so you do not need the console. It enables you to easily search your repositories, install, remove packages or whatever.

 

But, yes basically it's all console, and if you'd like to there are some fine GUIs to chose from which you can put on top of the console app. (like Synaptic does for apt/dpkg)

 

It's not tiresome, it's *freedom of choice*.

 

[Sabretooth]

Synaptic is like a package installer/uninstaller. It downloads and installs/uninstalls softwarez from your computer, and does a darned good job at that. If you don't know already, Ubuntu uses trendy packages, that are arranged in repositories. That means you don't need to go googling for stuff, downloading and installing separately.

 

To start Compiz, you'll first need to get your graphic card drivers installed. This is mostly a snap, but I'm not on linux at the moment. I think you go to System>Administration>Restricted Drivers Manager, or something like that. Check the box with nvidia driver, which will get downloaded, installed. Restart, and Compiz should work. If not, then head to System>Preferences>Appearance>Desktop Effects tab and select your level of eye candy.

 

However, the only way to fully exploit Compiz Fusion is to install compiz-config-settings-manager. Go to Synaptic, search this up, select it, click Apply and it'll install it. For the themes to go with CF, install the emerald package, too. Once done, restart (or hit Ctrl+Alt+Backspace) and your desktop should be ready.

 

For your Aero clones, head to gnome-look.org or kde-look.org, and look up for themes under Beryl or Compiz Fusion. Believe me, there are so many Aero clones, it's pathetic.

 

And yep, Linux is all about command boxes - that's what Linux is, at its heart. All the flashy GUI you see are just components and shells for these command boxes. This ain't no Windows, Astro!

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

*what is synaptic

A Debian package manager with a GUI.

 

*I cant seem to get compiz setting up - isnt it meant to be included in GG

Don't bother, the effects just slow everything down and they lose their charm fairly quickly. "HOLY **** MY WINDOWS JIGGLE LIKE A FAT MAN'S STOMACH ON A TREADMILL!"

 

*I would be interested in an aero clone, all the better to fool the kiddies

http://www.gnome-look.org/index.php?xcontentmode=101

 

*is linux all command boxes....even to uninstall stuff !! that would be tiresome

[El Sitherino]

TERMINAL IS FOR WIN!

 

Compiz is actually pretty decent as far as memory goes, at least on my end. Then again I've stripped it down a bit. I don't have an asston of effects going on, mostly just taking advantage of the composite and nicer window-manager themes. I prefer things simplistic, yet aesthetic. Although every now and then when I get angry for a compile going odd I like to set my screen on fire via the fire-paint thing.

[Sabretooth]

Compiz is actually pretty decent as far as memory goes, at least on my end. Then again I've stripped it down a bit. I don't have an asston of effects going on, mostly just taking advantage of the composite and nicer window-manager themes. I prefer things simplistic, yet aesthetic. Although every now and then when I get angry for a compile going odd I like to set my screen on fire via the fire-paint thing.

Yeah, I used to put the effects on heavy at first, but then it just gets weary and boring. Now I just use fade and stuff - stuff that looks cool, but not like it's from some Hollywood sci-fi movie.

 

I love using the desktop with the rain effect on, though. Sorta fun.

[Astrotoy7]

thanks for the help and suggestions techies I'll have a play tonight. The jiggly tummy effect definitely gave me the shytes in about 10 seconds - off it went. I'll have a go at those themes, but what ive set my sights on next is that avant navigator bizzo. Tried to get it working, couldnt of course Some package from somewhere was not found ...bleh !

 

funny though, I seem to be spending more time on this when teh original aim was to see the effects of others doing so Once Ive got it setup nice, I can unleash it on them...

 

mtfbwya

[El Sitherino]

You'll never finish. You are one of us.

 

One of us.

 

One of us.

[Ray Jones]

ONE OF US ONE OF US !! XD

 

While you are at it, Astro, have you checked the Elisa Media Center?

[Astrotoy7]

lolz... I indeed seem to be spending too much time on the thing. I have to still say that Im no closer to thinking the terminal box is cool. Ive had no luck at getting compiz themes working - bleh - and I really dont want to spend too much time on it.

 

From following negsuns adventures I did have a go at sabayon mini and liked what I saw. I couldnt get access to my windows network, so will try the full version. It seems a bit more more bling oriented. Its default red-black is much sexier that "POO-Buntu" human brown ugh

 

The gf/kids have had a few goes at using it now. A few grumbles, "where is msn messenger" etc ! But theyve used FF with no other complaint.

 

I think if FF and using OOword etc was all anyone needed to do - it would be great.

 

As someone who is moderately tech savvy (my preference is hardware of course), I have to admit, that whilst impressive from speed of install and available features of the bat, from a tweaking point of view, its a bit frustrating, I wont take those shiny GUIs in windows for granted ever again

 

What has really got me frazzled is that instructions you get on how to do something from different online sources are often incongruent or sometimes totally unhelpful > them being

 

1) indecipherable to non familiar users and not a thing you can troubleshoot the windows/mac way. I think its hilarious that you have to troubleshoot the process of troubleshooting !!! For me, this was the polarising moment that made me realise Linux isnt user friendly once you want to move outside of what its come with.

 

2) wont actually work because some file that it relies isnt there, or is unavailable and that I shoud try <undecipherable> Im sure that once you understand the language of what commands you use, then it would make more sense - but im not sure I(and many others) have that time to invest

 

I have to admit, for a student, light users or something like the OLPC, a plain linux install is a great free alternative, so kudos to that.

 

But, using it for a bit more than that basic stuff or simply tweaking it a bit - if the likes of me are getting frazzled by trying to 'set it up the way I like', then there is a significantly lower chance of a non tech savvy, or mom n pop user doing so.

 

All in all, linux has been exactly what I expected to be - great/different but difficult once you delve a bit deeper.

 

I'll seep sabayon on that test pc for the kids/gf and send it back to the rental place as such - maybe they can figure out how to bling my themes, etc

 

In the interim, am I prepared to sweat it out more to learn the ropes get it how I would like ....? the answer is probably no as Im going to be getting "NWN2: Mask of The Betrayer" and COD4 some time tmrw ....now which is more fun ??

 

mtfbwya

[Ray Jones]

lolz... I indeed seem to be spending too much time on the thing. I have to still say that Im no closer to thinking the terminal box is cool.

Oh, I think you would, once you screw your graphic card's driver installation. It actually is pretty handy for any kind of maintenance. The best thing windows ever said to me (except maybe "Error: there is no error message for this error.") "BLAH.SYS is missing, please reinstall Windows". I mean, reinstall?? Because of *one* file? And I could not even go console mode???

 

Also, I usually managed to break my Windows once every two months, with a reinstall/repair install necessary every second breakage. I also break my Debian a couple of times per year into sometimes unbootable manners. As of now I *never* had to perform a reinstall or the like (nor was I encouraged to do so).

 

 

As someone is is mild-moderately tech savvy (my preference is hardware of course), I have to admit, that whilst impressive from speed of install and available features of the bat, from a tweaking point of view, its a bit frustrating, I wont take those shiny GUIs in windows for granted ever again

Pah. Those shiny GUIs just blind you to the fact that you have in fact no real control, and moreover, you do not know whatever happens in the background. When you screw a configuration in Windows, which is most likely held in the Registry, you can try and seek your ass off to find what broke, and when you're struck by some kind of luck Google will find something for you.

 

Manpages telling you what to do and everything configurable in a text file under /etc or /home/ray is extremely easy to manage, and that with any random text editor regardless if X or console, or with some schnazzy GUI (or text "GUI") for the point'n'click folks.

[Sabretooth]

For God's sake, listen to the man, Astro!

 

A few grumbles, "where is msn messenger" etc !

I require you to slap said complainers. No, really.

 

As for the part about not getting help, remember that this is open source, free and decentralized. You don't have burger-fed slaves working their butts off for some evil corporation just to help someone. Accept what you get, because someone is sending it to you from their heart.

 

Also, Linux is hardly a singular OS in itself, and so you can never correctly compare it with Windows or Mac, for several reasons. And quite frankly, both Linux and Windows have their points. There are things you can't do in Linux (easily/yet/conveniently/properly), and there are things Windows sucks at.

[El Sitherino]

I usually managed to break my Windows once every two months, with a reinstall/repair install necessary every second breakage. I also break my Debian a couple of times per year into sometimes unbootable manners. As of now I *never* had to perform a reinstall or the like (nor was I encouraged to do so).

Man, I broke my Ubuty install, maybe 8 times, in the span of this afternoon when I woke up. Fixed it, obviously still using it, even changed some settings around.

 

I have too much fun playing with things and break them, like an oversized toddler.

[Astrotoy7]

lolz @ Ray

 

and no one has had to ever google a solution for linux?? Every OS has their error reporting service tinkering away in the backgorund, and third party apps you can install to enhance it.

 

Having used sabayon for a few days now, I can say its *finally* good to have some sane and style minded people working on a distro. The thing looks and works beautifully. Sure there are a few things that arent as good, but you can get around using them for most part. One annoying thing is networking with my windows pcs sucks. I can look at all the folders but cant access them - which is a problem that didnt exist in ubuntu.

 

Ive had to resort to mad googling to try and remedy it ...with no success yet.

 

Otherwise, a thumbs up to sexy sabayon. I dont care what the rest of you cape wearing, terminal box loving freaks prefer

 

Im even thinking of popping a virtual sabayon up in wmware so I can further figure out its foibles

 

if anyone who has used sabayon or similar >>

1. knows how to get rid of konqueror and use something else for file navigation

2. knows how to tweak network settings to enable windows networking to actually work

 

lemme know

 

mtfbwya

[MJ-W4]

I can look at all the folders but cant access them - which is a problem that didnt exist in ubuntu.

Have you installed the latest ntfstools?

For networking with windows, you need to run samba.

[Astrotoy7]

Im not sure if ntfstools is installed or not, or what version it is

 

samba is in theer of course - and I can see my network fine, just cant get into it. I noticed that when I installed sabayon based on gnome rather than KDE, this problem didnt occur. Must eb a KDE specific thang ??

 

mtfbwya