mimartin Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Opps, Joe's in trouble now. Joe the Plumber' says he has no plumbing license However: But the county Wurzelbacher and his employer live in, Lucas County, requires plumbers to have licenses. Neither Wurzelbacher nor his employer are licensed there, said Cheryl Schimming of Lucas County Building Regulations, which handles plumber licenses in parts of the county outside Toledo.[/Quote] Thank you Mr. McCain and Mr. Obama for drawing attention to us small business owners and workers. Please leave mimartin insurance agent in Texas out of your debates and ads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 MCCAIN STARTED IT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 I’m trying to be bipartisan before tk bans me for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinchyB Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Opps, Joe's in trouble now. Joe the Plumber' says he has no plumbing license However: Thank you Mr. McCain and Mr. Obama for drawing attention to us small business owners and workers. Please leave mimartin insurance agent in Texas out of your debates and ads. LOL, nice Random rants about Joe... Rumor has it that in the next ad McCain will reference his close friend Joe POW, while Obama concentrates on Joe Change, Palin on Joe Moose, and Biden will follow closely behind with Joe Scranton. Hmmm...I'm sincing a Joe Mama joke in one of the campaigns soon. Anyone care to take a swing at which one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Wow, a man gets his charecter assassinated (by the media) for asking Obama a question that Obama's response makes Obama look bad. Seriously, you don't necessarily need to have a plummer license to work at a plummer business. Shows me that Obama's 10,000 press secretaries are scared that this man could cause Obama to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Seriously, you don't necessarily need to have a plummer license to work at a plummer business.According to that county you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 According to that county you do. Show me the statute that he can't even work for a plumbing company because he doesn't have a license even if he isn't the one doing the actual plumbing. Also because this is the AP, I did some checking and they aren't even telling the whole truth to begin with. Let me translate for you. One person in a business (in the case of my employer it is the owner) takes the test and qualifies for the license. That license is assigned to the business entity and you can have as many air conditioning technicians (or plumbers) working for that company as long as that license is assigned to an owner or a employee of that. http://thenightfly.blogspot.com/2008/10/joe-plumber-does-not-need-license.html In short he doesn't need the license. (A) “License” means a license the Ohio construction industry licensing board issues to an individual as a heating, ventilating, and air conditioning contractor, refrigeration contractor, electrical contractor, plumbing contractor, or hydronics contractor. (B) “Contractor” means any individual or business entity that satisfies both of the following: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4740 In other words the AP and other media outlets are being dishonest (as usual), he is employed to a business that holds that license, he'll just need to get the licence if he's going to become the boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Which has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he actually has one. ...which has absolutely nothing to do with the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinchyB Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 In short he doesn't need the license. [sound of buzzer] Wrong. Mr. Wurzelbacher said he works under Al Newell’s license, but according to Ohio building regulations, he must maintain his own license to do plumbing work. link. ... gotta love local papers. So, you are correct in that he is (may be was now thanks to McCain) working under his employers license, however, in Ohio he has to maintain his own license in addition. Therefore, if he's doing any plumbing work in Ohio, he is doing it illegally. BTW... blogs are not the best place to source information. Maybe the sources the blogs use, but not the blogs themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Can someone please tell me why the media is having a collective cow about whether the man has a plumbing license or not? If the guy's in some kind of apprenticeship program that could easily explain it, but that's still between Joe and the state of Ohio. It's also completely irrelevant to the question the man asked Obama. Would Obama have somehow changed his answer if he knew the man had a bona fide full license from Ohio? It has absolutely no bearing on Obama's answer about redistribution of wealth. The real story is Obama's answer, not the plumber's credentials. The truth is Obama said a socialist answer, and for any of us who've looked at Obama's platform, this answer came as absolutely no surprise, but saying 'redistribution of wealth' is going to make conservatives more uncomfortable with Obama than they already are. Once again, never underestimate the press to get all over-excited over something completely unrelated to anything truly important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 [sound of buzzer] Wrong. Actually you are wrong. link. ... gotta love local papers. So, you are correct in that he is (may be was now thanks to McCain) working under his employers license, however, in Ohio he has to maintain his own license in addition. Therefore, if he's doing any plumbing work in Ohio, he is doing it illegally. BTW... blogs are not the best place to source information. Maybe the sources the blogs use, but not the blogs themselves. Why do you think I back check my blog sources? I didn't just use the blog I actually did some back checking and looked up the actual law. I think the Ohio state government statute trumps a local paper. As shown in the actual statute which is linked from: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4740 As used in this chapter: (A) “License” means a license the Ohio construction industry licensing board issues to an individual as a heating, ventilating, and air conditioning contractor, refrigeration contractor, electrical contractor, plumbing contractor, or hydronics contractor. (B) “Contractor” means any individual or business entity that satisfies both of the following: (1) For compensation, directs, supervises, or has responsibility for the means, method, and manner of construction, improvement, renovation, repair, or maintenance on a construction project with respect to one or more trades and who offers, identifies, advertises, or otherwise holds out or represents that the individual or business entity is permitted or qualified to perform, direct, supervise, or have responsibility for the means, method, and manner of construction, improvement, renovation, repair, or maintenance with respect to one or more trades on a construction project; (2) Performs or employs tradespersons who perform construction, improvement, renovation, repair, or maintenance on a construction project with respect to the contractor’s trades. © “Licensed trade” means a trade performed by a heating, ventilating, and air conditioning contractor, a refrigeration contractor, an electrical contractor, a plumbing contractor, or a hydronics contractor. (D) “Tradesperson” means an individual employed by a contractor who engages in construction, improvement, renovation, repair, or maintenance of buildings or structures without assuming responsibility for the means, method, or manner of that construction, improvement, renovation, repair, or maintenance. (E) “Construction project” means a construction project involving a building or structure subject to Chapter 3781. of the Revised Code and the rules adopted under that chapter, but not an industrialized unit or a residential building as defined in section 3781.06 of the Revised Code. Effective Date: 09-18-2001; 09-16-2004; 05-27-2005; 03-30-2007 In short, as long as his employer has the license and there is a supervisor, he doesn't need a license personally, because his employer holds the license. He will need to get the license if/when he buys the business though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Why does this matter? Since the owner did not have a license either? Joe is just a man doing his job that asked a question. Now he gets to see fame has its price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giant Graffiti Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 This is what you call an Ad hominem fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Why does this matter? Since the owner did not have a license either? Joe is just a man doing his job that asked a question. Now he gets to see fame has its price. If the owner or supervisor (1 of the 2) didn't have a license, then it's their canary, not Joe's. In layman's terms, the people that would get in trouble for not having the license would be the employer, not Joe. As for the fame having its price, you wouldn't see this level of scrutiny if it were some question that would when answered ended up making McCain look bad. If anything, this has proven the mainstream media is in the tank for Senator Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinchyB Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 He will need to get the license if/when he buys the business though. Actually, it was pretty specific. he needs a license in order to do plumbing work. BTW... referring to definitions is not the same as referring to a state law. Nice to see how the state defines things though. Keep in mind, burden of proof is on you. Everyone, here and outside this community is saying he needs a license. Prove that he doesn't, which you haven't done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthian Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Okay, okay, okay, there's one thing I need to say. The word 'Plumber' is spelled with a B, not two Ms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 The word 'Plumber' is spelled with a B, not two Ms.Most constructive post in thread award goes to...Corinthian. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Actually, it was pretty specific. he needs a license in order to do plumbing work. BTW... referring to definitions is not the same as referring to a state law. Nice to see how the state defines things though. Actually if you'd read the actual law which I had quoted from the Ohio Government's own website which you apparently haven't you'd find that your statement is inaccurate. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4740 Read it, he is a plumber not a plumbing contractor, he doesn't need a license since his employer has the license. Keep in mind, burden of proof is on you. Everyone, here and outside this community is saying he needs a license. Prove that he doesn't, which you haven't done. Actually I have cause I quoted the actual law, it says plumbing contractor which he is not, he's just a plumber employed to a plumbing contractor. To be quite frank, I don't really put any faith in the media when it comes to bashing someone who criticized Obama. And this particular subject has demonstrated yet again why I trust Fox News over the propaganda that they call journalism. However, my point remains, that they've spent more time vetting one guy (Joe) that Obama went on Joe's property and Joe asked Obama a valid question. Because Obama's answer makes Obama look like he's a socialist (which he was a member of the socialist party), they're now trying to distract from that by trying to smear an ordinary American just like you're doing right now. Well congratulations Mainstream media and Obama Campaign, you just gave out the game changer of the year to McCain on a silver platter. In all honesty, I don't need to prove anything other than the media being in the tank for Obama, but you've proven that for me already in this topic alone: Oh and Fox News and the conservative bloggers have all pointed what the Ohio ordinence actually says, which the mainstream media has flat out lied about as you can plainly see in the link I provided in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinchyB Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Read it, he is a plumber not a plumbing contractor, he doesn't need a license since his employer has the license. Here's a thought, instead of linking the entire law why don't you quote what you are referring to. BTW... the section directly under "4740.01 Construction industry licensing board definitions." are definitions for terms used in the law, not the law itself. Hard to understand I know... but hopefully the use of the word Definition in the section title helps... Until, burden of proof... you have no proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Here's a thought, instead of linking the entire law why don't you quote what you are referring to. BTW... the section directly under "4740.01 Construction industry licensing board definitions." are definitions for terms used in the law, not the law itself. Hard to understand I know... but hopefully the use of the word Definition in the section title helps... I'm just going to bold and underline key parts of it and post the full thing again. Cause if I just post tidbits I'll be acused of distorting it. As used in this chapter: (A) “License” means a license the Ohio construction industry licensing board issues to an individual as a heating, ventilating, and air conditioning contractor, refrigeration contractor, electrical contractor, plumbing contractor, or hydronics contractor. (B) “Contractor” means any individual or business entity that satisfies both of the following: (1) For compensation, directs, supervises, or has responsibility for the means, method, and manner of construction, improvement, renovation, repair, or maintenance on a construction project with respect to one or more trades and who offers, identifies, advertises, or otherwise holds out or represents that the individual or business entity is permitted or qualified to perform, direct, supervise, or have responsibility for the means, method, and manner of construction, improvement, renovation, repair, or maintenance with respect to one or more trades on a construction project; (2) Performs or employs tradespersons who perform construction, improvement, renovation, repair, or maintenance on a construction project with respect to the contractor’s trades. © “Licensed trade” means a trade performed by a heating, ventilating, and air conditioning contractor, a refrigeration contractor, an electrical contractor, a plumbing contractor, or a hydronics contractor. (D) “Tradesperson” means an individual employed by a contractor who engages in construction, improvement, renovation, repair, or maintenance of buildings or structures without assuming responsibility for the means, method, or manner of that construction, improvement, renovation, repair, or maintenance. (E) “Construction project” means a construction project involving a building or structure subject to Chapter 3781. of the Revised Code and the rules adopted under that chapter, but not an industrialized unit or a residential building as defined in section 3781.06 of the Revised Code. Effective Date: 09-18-2001; 09-16-2004; 05-27-2005; 03-30-2007 And here is the source again: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4740 Until, burden of proof... you have no proof. I don't know I think the actual law proving me verbatum kinda proves my point. And Joe qualifies as a tradesman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinchyB Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 And Joe qualifies as a tradesman. Yes, Joe may be a tradesman, however, your post does not point out if he goes into a house does some plumbing work without a license if it is legal or not...why... becuase you are only referencing the definition of the terms used in the law not the law itself. You have to read past the definition of terms section in order to view the specifics of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Yes, Joe may be a tradesman, however, your post does not point out if he goes into a house does some plumbing work without a license if it is legal or not...why... becuase you are only referencing the definition of the terms used in the law not the law itself. You have to read past the definition of terms section in order to view the specifics of the law. So you're saying a tradesman cannot do their job? Don't give me that garbage, actually quote in the law where it says that cause if that's accurate you should probably have to arrest a good number of members from the plumbing union in Ohio. Anyways, where are the media trucks outside Bill Ayers' home? We've seen more coverage into the life of a guy that simply asked a question, than we've seen into Obama's past the entire Presidential Election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyri Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 So you're saying a tradesman cannot do their job?No, he didn't say that...? Anyways, where are the media trucks outside Bill Ayers' home?Why don't you call up FoxNews and recommend they send one over? Or ask them why they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 We've seen more coverage into the life of a guy that simply asked a question, than we've seen into Obama's past the entire Presidential Election.You really equate 3 days of minor scrutiny to 20+ months of vetting? ADFO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 You really equate 3 days of minor scrutiny to 20+ months of vetting? ADFO What vetting, aside from Sean Hannity and Fox News, the rest of the Media has been taking Obama's statements as gospel truth. And when they finally reported on anything they distorted and outright lied. Kinda hard to vet someone when you think they're the messiah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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