CommanderQ Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Hmmm..good definisions there, I agree that the most dangerous Sith is the quiet, plotting one. That Sith has probably ruled the galaxy once..or twice, possibly three times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevron 7 locke Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 I thought they only took over the republic once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderQ Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Three times, the TOR timeline, the Clone Wars-Galactic Civil War timeline, and the Legacy era, Coruscant has fallen many times.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adavardes Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 If he could have walked away from it at any time then why do you think he became a sith lord? There are major allusions to him being a sith lord not out of corruption, but out of necessity. Because of his immense power in the Force, he was the only one who could use the Star Forge without dying. It corrupted his mind, slightly, but he made that sacrifice because he needed a large enough army to solidify the Republic as a strong, singular force against the True Sith. "There is a fine line between a fall, and a sacrifice, but I think Revan understood that difference better than most." He was a Sith Lord by choice, not because he wanted to be a sith, but because Sith and Jedi were just narrow-minded perceptives on a greater whole. "Did he fall? Or was Revan always true to himself, no matter what mask he wore?" He was willing to allow himself to face corruption with the good of the Light at heart, because he saw that the dark and the light do not truly exist as absolutes, but as areas of grey; as perspectives, not truths. Kreia is a major source on Revan's history, and as a canonical character, I'm willing to take her word for it. I doubt the writers of TSL were clever enough to make her a liar about everything she knows regarding Revan, to be honest. They provided her with that knowledge to explain a major underlying characterisation of Revan, not to be confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevron 7 locke Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 That...is exactly what I have been trying to tell people. Bravo sir! for wording it so well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderQ Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Hurrah! You have explained it most spectacularily! I salute you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevron 7 locke Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 If sidious had used Revan's methods to secure the galaxy against the vong...I think he would have been better recieved by the citizens of the empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 i always thought he was going to take over the republic and strengthen it because at their state of affairs then, the galaxy wouldve been squished by the true sith. then he wouldve had a nice long reign as emperor and rule as he saw fit. we dont know how that would be. there was this ruthless tyrant in sw who took over the system of almania. he mercilessly destroyed all who opposed him in a blood bath of a takeover... but when he came to power, he became the damn best ruler in their history. just and kind, the whole ding bang. they had a golden age when he ruled them i think. revan's actions (keeping key structural points intact etc) seem to lean toward this. not saying it is, and not saying that this is my opinion. its a possibility. malak crushed his opposition as well. but *somehow* i doubt he would fit that bill. as to kreia being a liar, i dont buy it. why? because of factors in our world. look at TSL, its unfinished. there's meant to be more. the lead writer admits it himself. and he knows that people are annoyed at the game for this. he explicitly takes responsibility for it. after all that, do you really think that they'll make (practically) the only source for us to knowing what happened to revan is spouting garbage?? i mean come on! If sidious had used Revan's methods to secure the galaxy against the vong...I think he would have been better recieved by the citizens of the empire. sidious' plans for the vong was just a matter on the side to his overthrowing the republic. his main purpose was just to take over the galaxy. he wouldve been trained since childhood in the ways of the sith, indoctrinated with the teachings of the sith, (along with an inherent hatred for jedi), and wouldve felt he had the legacy of a thousand years of sith to fulfill. when he found out about the vong, he stalled that situation. he would take over the galaxy completely, then he would deal with the vong threat. if the outbound flight project caused the vong to attack then, it wouldve seriously interfered with his delicate plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanir Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 There are major allusions to him being a sith lord not out of corruption, but out of necessity. Because of his immense power in the Force, he was the only one who could use the Star Forge without dying. It corrupted his mind, slightly, but he made that sacrifice because he needed a large enough army to solidify the Republic as a strong, singular force against the True Sith. "There is a fine line between a fall, and a sacrifice, but I think Revan understood that difference better than most." He was a Sith Lord by choice, not because he wanted to be a sith, but because Sith and Jedi were just narrow-minded perceptives on a greater whole. "Did he fall? Or was Revan always true to himself, no matter what mask he wore?" He was willing to allow himself to face corruption with the good of the Light at heart, because he saw that the dark and the light do not truly exist as absolutes, but as areas of grey; as perspectives, not truths. Kreia is a major source on Revan's history, and as a canonical character, I'm willing to take her word for it. I doubt the writers of TSL were clever enough to make her a liar about everything she knows regarding Revan, to be honest. They provided her with that knowledge to explain a major underlying characterisation of Revan, not to be confusing. And therein lies the problem. There are those whom would assert this to be the reasoning behind the Dark Side. The Jedi Council, for one. Let's consider, whilst to the Jedi himself the question becomes, "What is the Force, what is Light?" To the Council becomes the inevitable question, "What is the Dark Side. What is the nature of the Sith?" And herein lay the answer: one whom does not reside upon the Council, may not act with the authority of the Council. That is the Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevron 7 locke Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 The sith are the anto of the jedi. without the sith to combat the jedi cannot exist. there cannot be only one side of the force, there has to be a light side and a darkside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 The sith are the anto of the jedi. without the sith to combat the jedi cannot exist. there cannot be only one side of the force, there has to be a light side and a darkside Again, bringing in real-life relativity to a fantasy world that canonically runs on a good vs. evil story telling platform. Keep in mind that in Kotor 1, Revan was the black/white good/evil villain that was brainwashed into being the "good" guy. TSL and Avellones shades of gray morality writing style is what brought moral relativity to the Old Republic, and at large a good part of Star Wars in general. The Dark Side, in Star Wars, is a corrupted and screwed up version of the actual Force. The Force, or "light side", is really at a neutral. There is no original "pure good" side to the force. There is a stable form, and there is an unstable form. When people corrupt the Force and use the unstable side, it seems to "hurt" the Force in some way that has yet to be explained. Getting rid of the Dark Side users seems to bring the Force back to a stable peace. In G-Canon, Anakin fixed the instability once and for all by getting rid of the Dark Side users, including himself. Even if the person was "good", by using the Dark Side they were causing harm to the Force and had to be stopped. Now, the EU kept the story going and added before and after to the movie canon. EU really just undermines Anakin's story entirely and pretty much makes the movies make no sense whatsoever anymore. He apparently was not "the one" as he "balanced" the Force for like, a year or less. EU still regards the Dark Side as being all corrupting, regardless of who touches it however. TSL has its own little area compared to most of Star Wars. You can use quotes from it to figure out what the Force is, but it contradicts the movies and a lot of the EU's view of the Force. So you have to question, on the whole, if Kreia was right or if the rest of the EU is right. Does the Force need the Dark Side to exist? The movies say no. The EU, for the most part, sometimes says No. TSL says Yes and No. In reality, most likely yes, it would need the Dark Side to exist. In the fantasy Star Wars Universe, however, the Dark Side is evil and a threat that must be made to go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevron 7 locke Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 If there was only the lightside then there would be no balance to the force. I ask you: what would happen if there was no dark side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderQ Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Well, everyone would be happy and smiley for one. And two, Star Wars wouldn't be Star Wars.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevron 7 locke Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 The whole jedi vs Sith conflict is what makes Star wars great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_Avery Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 If there was only the lightside then there would be no balance to the force. I ask you: what would happen if there was no dark side Correction, if there was only Lightside there would be no story. This is, however, the movies version of the Force. If you'd like to study the various EU philosophy, wookiepedia has a decent entry on them. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Force What most of you are talking about would probably be the Potentium view of the Force: The banned sect of Force followers that believed that the Force was used in the eyes of the beholder, and had no inherit good or evil side on the whole. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Potentium However, the Power of the Jedi source book states that this viewpoint of the Force is corrupt and misguided. So, while it may make sense to you... the Jedi Order would cast you out almost immediately for believing it. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Power_of_the_Jedi_Sourcebook In the Star Wars verse, however, the only philosophy that has been proven right to a degree is Qui-Gon Jinn's philosophy of the "Living Force". By following this philosophy, it allowed himself, Yoda, and others to join with the Force, yet still retain their consciousness in ways the Orthodox Jedi beleifs did not. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Force#The_Living_Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adavardes Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 And herein lay the answer: one whom does not reside upon the Council, may not act with the authority of the Council. That is the Sith. Actually, that is a grey Jedi. A Force User that does not act in the authority of the Jedi Order, or the Sith. The Sith is an ideal, a belief in power, in the dark side. I don't think the dark side of the Force is inheritly a bad thing, to be honest. I think it is simply the same passive Force, except in a potency to such a degree as it threatens to destroy the body and mind of any one individual who chooses to use it. It's not that it's evil power, it's that the power is too much for anyone to handle, with the singular known exception of Revan and the Star Forge, and even then, he sacrificed himself to corruption, even though he may have held on to his true convictions as loyal to the preservation of the Galaxy, and the Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKA-001 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 the singular known exception of Revan and the Star Forge, The Star Forge didn't fail to corrupt Revan for any reason other than the fact that he stayed away from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevron 7 locke Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 No...the starforge didn't corrupt him because he didn't draw on the full powah of the stargorge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adavardes Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Actually, if you played TSL with a darkside revan, you would have known from the holocron of Bastila on Korriban that after he left, people tried and failed to use the Star Forge as he had, because the Star Forge killed them. Only he was capable of operating it, at all, without becoming totally corrupted to the point of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderQ Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Yeah, remember that the Star Forge was a monument of the Dark Side, it emenated with the dark side. The dark side corrupts, that is what the Star Forge did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevron 7 locke Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 The other sith might have tried to use the full powah of the forge. revan only used it to produce ships and stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adavardes Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 No, I believe Bastila explicitly said that others had tried to use the Forge just as he had, and failed. They didn't overdo it, they just simply couldn't harness the power like he could without it killing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevron 7 locke Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 I still feel that some of these so called sith tried to use the starforge as more then a factory, thats what killed them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adavardes Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 There's no mitigating evidence to support that belief, I'm afraid. Besides, it's already canonically established that Revan is one of the most powerful Force users in galactic history, right up there with pre-Vader Anakin Skywalker, and Yoda. It's not really a stretch of the imagination to believe that he could use the Star Forge when others couldn't because of that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevron 7 locke Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 Alrighty then...you forgot to include Starkiller in your list of powerful jedi. I think the starforge would have overwhelmed revan if he had used it as more then a factory, what do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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