TV Question: The Origins of the Flashback/Fantasy Segue?

[Astrotoy7]

Help settle a high stakes(1 pepsi max) bet !!

 

I am locked in mortal kombat with buffoonscolleagues re-the origins if the flashback/fantasy segue.

 

Im sure you have all noticed how modern shows, be they live action or cartoons are always jumping into sequences that depict a fantasy or past/future event.

 

Scrubs did this like crazy, but it is in so many shows now, Im sure I dont know the half of them. Obvious examples are also Family Guy/American Dad and 30 Rock.

 

In 'the ole days' if a character said "it would be so cool to be like King Arthur!" it would be up to our imagination to picture that character in the armour, on a horse, galloping around with exaclibur. In shows now, the character says it and there is a quick flash to a sequence depicting exactly that...

 

so, when did this start??

 

I thought about for many moments and cant think of anything before The Simpsons that did this so directly. Many shows have had little dream sequences, but in the simpsons, they blazed the trail for teh style seen in Family Guy, Scrubs etc...

 

Those that disagree have put forward that this started in those 'flashback' shows sitcoms had where they sat around and talked about stuff in the past and clips were shown from previous shows. I can "sortve" see the link, but it is no way near as direct as the simpsons.

 

Anyone think of an earlier example??

 

mtfbwya

[Rev7]

My guess would be a long time ago. First TV show...:/

[Achilles]

Furthest back I can recall is the Dick Van Dyke Show, however it would not surprise me if it was done earlier than that.

[Pavlos]

Anyone think of an earlier example??

Any piece of epic poetry. Aeneid II, for example, is one big flashback sequence. Though it's not television, the interrelated nature of art (used in the sense of anything that can be intrinsically analysed) means that the cultural influence -- direct or otherwise -- is almost certainly present. There's likely a lineage of technique sprouting from some sort of source like that which you can trace but you'd have to spend years in a university library to do that.

[Darth InSidious]

Any piece of epic poetry. Aeneid II, for example, is one big flashback sequence. Though it's not television, the interrelated nature of art (used in the sense of anything that can be intrinsically analysed) means that the cultural influence -- direct or otherwise -- is almost certainly present. There's likely a lineage of technique sprouting from some sort of source like that which you can trace but you'd have to spend years in a university library to do that.

 

Consider yourself trumped, sir, for I have an earlier example!

 

The Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor is not only for the majority of the text an enormous flashback, but contains further recountings of tales inside that sequence. The tale dates to the Middle Kingdom, although the dating given on the website ought to be taken with a pinch of salt.

[Gargoyle King]

Well, in terms of literature an early example could be Mahābhārata, a Sanskrit epic of ancient India; narrated through a frame story set at a later date.

 

In terms of filmography, a good example would be the Marcel Carné film Le jour se lève; told entirely in flashback it tells the account of why a factory worker François (played by Jean Gabin) killed a man. A classic piece of film-noir thriller.

[Astrotoy7]

Consider yourself trumped, sir, for I have an earlier example!

 

lolz.. I'll see your Shipwrecked Sailor and raise you the Lascaux Cave Paintings circa 14000 BCE

 

Flashbacks/recounting tales are one thing, but quickly illustrating thoughts and dialogue as seen on these shows is very much a modern thing as far as I can tell.

 

anyway, I doubt Seth Macfarlane and Matt Groening were thinking about emulating the Aeneid etc when they were formulating their shows. Though Homer was named for the Greek Poet of course.

 

mtfbwya

[Ray Jones]

Parker Lewis Can't Lose?

[Boba Rhett]

Little House on the Prairie had such flashbacks.

[Pavlos]

anyway, I doubt Seth Macfarlane and Matt Groening were thinking about emulating the Aeneid etc when they were formulating their shows.

Maybe but they didn't have to. Cultural influence isn't necessarily direct and it isn't necessarily conscious. I doubt every poet who announces speech with and "O" ("o navis" for Horace and "O that this too, too solid flesh" for Shakespeare) knows that they're introducing Ancient Greek into their writing.

 

It is exceedingly rare for you to have an original thought; I forget the name of the theory but it states that every progression in literature (except, bizarrely, Shakespeare but we have to forgive Bardolotry -- it was the nineteenth century and they all did it) is simply a reworking of an earlier piece. How many times have you sat and watched a television programme and thought: "No! Don't save that character, let him die!"? If you rewrote it, it would be the same up to that point.

 

It's a rather blunt example but you could clearly see the lineage of any resultant work, which may be held "higher" than the original (but, frankly, I dislike the idea of some stock exchange of literature where I can trade in my falling Tennyson shares for a bit of Austen). I don't think you could really pinpoint an origin for such a thing, only the influences that led to its development and then some sort of paradigm (i.e. Scrubs or Family Guy).

 

One influence might be sketch shows. That's essentially all a Family Guy episode is: a series of sketches held together by a plot. More iconographic languages in the past would be a linguistic equivalent of quickly illustrating thoughts or emotions; Darathy would know more on the matter being an Egyptologist and all that.

[Astrotoy7]

Little House on the Prairie had such flashbacks.

 

you sir, are teh win Great stuff Rhett.

 

I have been trying to pull a recollection of an old show from my datagreycells, and that is it. I understand the literary angle proposed by the others, but was wanting to narrow it down to an "example on TV" > I believe thats it Now that I think back, the show Kung Fu did great ''lesson'' flashbacks > but Im sure that was *after* Little House.

 

Pavlos, indeed - a rare thought is perhaps nigh on impossible. Someone has always been before and done something sorta similar... Considering so much of human behaviour is based on modelling from visual/tactile/aural (etc) experiences we endure from a bebe onwards, its no massive surprise.

 

Im sure those frenchmen at Lascaux saw some flowers or pretty patterns painted on some other cave guys wall and thought "Oui! I'll 'ave a go at that but might do some Aurochs instead..!"

 

mtfbwya