What good reason is there to believe the Christian God exists? [The Debate Thread]

[SkinWalker]

As I said, since God's existence can't yet be disproven, there really are no bad reasons for believing in such an entity.

 

Since this thread is about the Christian god, I would contend that there are numerous bad reasons to not believe in it. If I'm asked to provide examples, I only ask first: how many would be sufficient?

[Rake]

I'm not much for this kind of discussion, but I figured I would post my to cents. I in fact believe in God, which is weird because I am a Skeptic... weird right? Anyway, as totenkopf said, there is nothing that can disprove God's existence. (But then again there is nothing to prove it, other than "faith".) Also, if there is no God, then how did we become into being? What caused the universe? What caused the big bang? How did molecules come into existence? These are complex and not very easily answered questions, but as everyone knows, we need a reason for something. I have a reason for posting this, I have a reason to own a computer, I have a reason to live. (Not stating that I know all the mysteries of life or the meaning of life.) So, I would say God created everything, because most people whom do not believe in God say something can't be created out of nothing, but Christians, as myself, believe that God was never created, He just "is."

-CP

 

So for one concept you say "it just is," and for the next you turn around and say "where did the molecules come into question?" That seems hypocritical as it seems anything outside of God needs an explanation, but as soon as we get close to God, no no he just is.

[Coolprogram]

So for one concept you say "it just is," and for the next you turn around and say "where did the molecules come into question?" That seems hypocritical as it seems anything outside of God needs an explanation, but as soon as we get close to God, no no he just is.

 

That is precisely my point. Numerous times, I have heard well, if God created everything who created God? This is a question I get almost all the time from some of my atheist friends, so I ask well, what created the universe? They say the Big Bang. I ask what caused the Big Bang? They say molecules were jumbled up together and eventually escaped creating an explosion. So I ask what created the molecules. They say one of two things.

1. I don't know

or

2. They just are/did

So, if this is possible, is it not also possible that God just is? Or that God created what was or/and is?

[mur'phon]

Of course it is possible, I believe Kyp thought you meant that God was an answer to the question "where did it all come from". I take the stance of I don't know, but since God "comming out of nothing"/simply existing and then creating the universe is entierly unsuported by evidence, I have little reason to believe that he/she/it/they did.

[Achilles]

I in fact believe in God

I am a Skeptic

Please help me understand how both of these statement can be true at the same time.

[GarfieldJL]

To throw egg on the Elvis argument, you can disprove Elvis is still alive by digging up his grave unless they cremated his body.

 

 

Since you can't disprove God's existence and assuming he is the one to cause the big bang, for all we know he essentially wrote the laws of physics, it is believed that people have the power to make their own choices.

 

As you say if God exists why does evil exist, well if no evil existed would people know what good is?

 

Human lives last less than a second as far as time in the Universe goes, for all we know that evil will end up triggering an event later that will put a stop to that evil and accomplish a great good that wouldn't have happened if that evil event hadn't happened. Point is just because things seem to have no point, doesn't mean there isn't a larger force at work.

[SkinWalker]

There are a lot of things one cannot disprove. Not being able to disprove something is not a good reason to believe in it. Indeed, it is the worst reason.

 

Now. Let's get the thread back on topic: What good reasons are there to believe in the Christian god? Anyone?

[GarfieldJL]

There are a lot of things one cannot disprove. Not being able to disprove something is not a good reason to believe in it. Indeed, it is the worst reason.

 

Now. Let's get the thread back on topic: What good reasons are there to believe in the Christian god? Anyone?

 

And a lot of great things have been accomplished by believing that something was possible when it hadn't been done before.

 

There have been miracles that have happened where somebody should have been killed and something that was 1 in a billion chance of happening saved them.

 

A lot of people would have given up all hope and killed themselves if it wasn't for their faith, their faith gave them hope and helped them turn things around in their lives.

[Rake]

 

A lot of people would have given up all hope and killed themselves if it wasn't for their faith, their faith gave them hope and helped them turn things around in their lives.

 

This is a fact???

[GarfieldJL]

This is a fact???

 

There are people whom have talked about it, even on public television...

[SkinWalker]

Yes, but what good reason is there to believe in the Christian god? Just hoping for something greater/bigger than one's self or some deity that protects one in hard times could be anything. It could just as easily be the god Mpmmphf. If I say all hail and bow to Mpmmphf, and that Mpmmphf will answer your prayers, doesn't is this a good reason to believe in Mpmmphf?

 

Face it. There simply is no logical, rational or legitimate reason to believe in the Christian god. There is no good reason to believe in the Christian god and invoke this apparently made up entity for human concepts like morality, justice, human rights, etc. A god had nothing to do with these things. Indeed, the Christian bible is the worst place to look for morality due to the flaws, contradictions, and immorality that the main characters portray.

[Achilles]

That doesn't make it a good reason.

 

I can go on public television and tell the world that the only reason I get up every morning is because I believe that Monica Bellucci is secretly in love with me, but that 1) doesn't make it true and 2) doesn't mean that I have any good reason for thinking that it is.

 

P.S. this is call "delusion".

[Totenkopf]

Since this thread is about the Christian god, I would contend that there are numerous bad reasons to not believe in it. If I'm asked to provide examples, I only ask first: how many would be sufficient?

 

Not clear here. Are you saying that there are numerous reasons to not believe in the Christian God and that all those reasons are bad?

[SkinWalker]

Hmm... yes, I essentially used a double negative which turned the statement around!

 

I'll rephrase: there are numerous bad reasons for believing in the Christian god; but there are also many good reasons not to believe as well.

[Totenkopf]

Now, while I know I'll be sorry I asked, elaborate on what you consider to be the "good reasons" for not believing in said entity. I'm gonna guess that many of them will be rooted in the actions people have taken or may yet take in the service of that belief.

[SkinWalker]

The Christian god is revealed through the Christian texts, referred to by believers as the bible. This bible is deeply flawed and contradicting. The god portrayed is immoral, manipulative, arrogant, misogynistic, racist and so on. I'm refreshed in knowing that such a god probably doesn't exist (while I cannot discount the possibility of a god, I'm certain that if there is one in the universe it isn't this horrible thing).

[Totenkopf]

Well, that raises an interesting question. As a purely intellectual exercise, if a god did exist (from your standpoint at least), what specifically would be required for you to embrace it as being good (or at least not horrible)?

[SkinWalker]

I would expect a god, if one existed, to be firm, fair and consistent. I would expect it to set a moral example for its creation to live by. The Christian god fails horribly at all of this.

[Totenkopf]

Well, I did ask for specifics, but I don't suppose you're willing to go there. What you provided me runs more toward generally vague platitudes. Although in fairness to you, consistent is more specific in meaning than the other qualifiers you used. Thanks anyway.

[SkinWalker]

Specifically? I would expect it not to commit genocide. Not murder men, women, children, infants in their mothers womb simply because some would-be worshipers looked in an ark or because an honest agriculturalist refused to give his produce to Israelite soldiers, depriving his own people.

 

I would expect such a being not be so murderous and immoral as to send two bears to kill a few kids teasing a passer-by.

 

I'd expect such a god to actually have a moral code which he would share with his people instead of the largely useless and uninspired "10 commandments," only a few of which have anything to say about morality.

 

But these expectations, while specific, really are just hypothetical since the god mentioned in the bible was created by man in man's own image, this much is clear.

[Tommycat]

Skin, the god you are talking about is the Jewish god. Which as pointed out by a comedian(dangit what's his name...) that god was a jerk. The New Testament god is a loving kinder gentler god, full of compassion love and benevolence. It's no wonder many people would prefer the new god. He's so much nicer.

 

Seriously though, if you are looking for a reason to believe in a god or gods(at all, not just the Christian god), the best answer I can give you is it takes some of the burden of life off of you. People with faith are generally more accepting of life's problems and more willing to work their way through the negative things that happen in life. It makes you feel better about bad things when you believe that God has a plan, or God will never close a door without opening a window(seems silly to me living in the desert haha... That lets the AC out). Sometimes just believing in something higher than yourself is enough to keep you going through hard times.

[Alexrd]

So, you are talking about the OT god. The Christian god is from the NT which appeared as the image of His son, Jesus Christ (therefore Christian, the one who follow the teachings of Christ). When you talk about the Christian god you should focus more on the NT. Why did you discard the NT and only talked about the OT?

[Vaelastraz]

Seriously though, if you are looking for a reason to believe in a god or gods(at all, not just the Christian god), the best answer I can give you is it takes some of the burden of life off of you. People with faith are generally more accepting of life's problems and more willing to work their way through the negative things that happen in life. It makes you feel better about bad things when you believe that God has a plan, or God will never close a door without opening a window(seems silly to me living in the desert haha... That lets the AC out). Sometimes just believing in something higher than yourself is enough to keep you going through hard times.

 

I realize that lots of people probably believe in God for the reasons you mentioned. But to me, that seems a lot like pascal's wager. Whether god exits or not is completely unrelated to any of that.

[SkinWalker]

They're the same god. According to biblical mythology.

[Samuel Dravis]

They're the same god. According to biblical mythology.

I guess that means that at least some bibilical stories are not the only deciding factor in what a modern Christian (or maybe even Jew) believes about their God.

 

It occurs to me that this effect is something like the how it's possible to have the "same" character in several alternate universes in DC Comics, all doing quite different things. The timeline apparently split on the nature of God a long time ago.