Guy.brush Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 awesome work everyone! Love dissecting classic games art. yeah a little secondary bounce motion on the pony tail would have been a nice touch. But as I said in another post, you need very skilled 2D animators to realize such things and to time and make it look right. btw surely there must be a room artwork somewhere in MI2 where taller character sprites would cause a problem. Would be a shame if they couldn't use the original scanned artwork and had to redo all the door frames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parabolee Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 Pretty huge improvement on Ghost Lechuck here - I doubt anyone will disagree that the new LeChuck is a vast improvement, and nicely faithful to Zombie LeChuck too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPeel2001 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 You don't need to take immature digs at me. You have just arrived at these forums. Try to fit in a little bit more and don't act so much like an autistic child. Woah. You are WAY out of line, Synth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parabolee Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 Woah. You are WAY out of line, Synth. Dude it's OK, we buried the hatchet. So to speak. Let's not drag it back up again! But thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy.brush Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 he definitely has more character now. Way more menacing. But I really liked his old pose. He looked really bloated and big. (he felt older and more obese in MI than in REVENGE, so it's no miss that he is now more in line with the Zombie version) btw the torso area feels a little 3d-ish. Might they have modeled all the characters in 3d? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parabolee Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 btw surely there must be a room artwork somewhere in MI2 where taller character sprites would cause a problem. Would be a shame if they couldn't use the original scanned artwork and had to redo all the door frames Well I think it may actually be that he is thinner rather than taller. My sprite sheets might throw you off because I didn't bother to the original Guyrush sprite the same height as the new. But if you look at this - He seems to be the same height, or the made all the backgrounds taller too, but I doubt it. We could check by overlaying them, but pretty sure they will match up really closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPeel2001 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I'm gonna have to be in the minority and say: I don't like the new GP LeChuck... (Sorry!) Reasons? His face looks human, his body just looks weird. He's a GHOST, right? Hmmm. Sorry, guess it's just me. My own personal nitpick, though? The angles on the mansion! They ruined it! (Sort of.) It's supposed to be exaggerated, instead it looks... confusing. And it is just me or did somebody forget to finish the sky off?!? As for the animations: Wow, I can't believe we stumbled across a mistake in the VGA version that no-one has noticed. I'd love to compare the Amiga sprite (I don't think he has that weird bit "dripping" from his nose, either ). I think the animated gif also pretty much conclusively proves that the SE animation is crap. But, c'est la vie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parabolee Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 he definitely has more character now. Way more menacing. But I really liked his old pose. He looked really bloated and big. (he felt older and more obese in MI than in REVENGE, so it's no miss that he is now more in line with the Zombie version) btw the torso area feels a little 3d-ish. Might they have modeled all the characters in 3d? Yeah I think they did, if you blow them up they look 3D modeled. Especially the HORRIBLE sprite of Guybrush flying at the screen. Hold on I'll post that monstrosity.... Here - Full size hideousness! No excuse for how terrible that frame is, however it is only seen for a few seconds at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPeel2001 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Where did you find THAT... Yikes! You're right: It IS 3D modelled, too! How bizarre. I wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parabolee Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 I'm gonna have to be in the minority and say: I don't like the new GP LeChuck... (Sorry!) Reasons? His face looks human, his body just looks weird. He's a GHOST, right? Hmmm. Sorry, guess it's just me. My own personal nitpick, though? The angles on the mansion! They ruined it! (Sort of.) It's supposed to be exaggerated, instead it looks... confusing. And it is just me or did somebody forget to finish the sky off?!? As for the animations: Wow, I can't believe we stumbled across a mistake in the VGA version that no-one has noticed. I'd love to compare the Amiga sprite (I don't think he has that weird bit "dripping" from his nose, either ). I think the animated gif also pretty much conclusively proves that the SE animation is crap. But, c'est la vie. Well I guess this is where subjective opinion rules. Because I fall on the opposite opinion in ever issue On most of your points I fully understand where you are coming from, I just feel differently, but on the Mansion?!! I am confused, it's almost identical other than a higher resolution. Gotta agree on the sky though, obviously the new is day and old night. But I think the new one has animated sky, and that frame just does not show it in it's best light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parabolee Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 Where did you find THAT... Yikes! You're right: It IS 3D modelled, too! How bizarre. I wonder why? Maybe Lucasarts don't have any 2D artists on staff so they did it all 3D and converted it, lol! Or maybe they created a 3D model for reference and just used it in this one horrible frame. Maybe they intend (or intended) to redo at some point. Weirdest thing is this is one of the images they released to the press when it was announced!!! I got it from Gamespot! Also on LeChuck, do note that in the actual game he has that kick has ghostly aura around him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I'm gonna have to be in the minority and say: I don't like the new GP LeChuck... (Sorry!) Reasons? His face looks human, his body just looks weird. He's a GHOST, right? Hmmm. Sorry, guess it's just me. It's not just you. I don't really like the new one that much either. Though I didn't like the original MI1 one either, his nose was weird. But yeah, his face looks too human now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzymitsu Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I think LeChuck looks alright, they kinda reworked him to match up with the newer ones I think... re: red coat, tan hat ect. I must admit I really disliked it at first because he wasn't blue and transparent, but I got over it. Hell he looks better than Guybrush, atleast they didn't mess up both of the main characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPeel2001 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Regarding the Mansion: Yeah, I know it's minor, but it's the front "pillar" of the house. It's all askew. I've just given it a quick, literally 3 minute, go into PS to try and show what I mean... I'm probably the only who would ever notice -- it's just this was one of my favourite screens in the original game The TOP one is mine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzymitsu Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those both the same picture? Or am I really freaking tired... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPeel2001 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those both the same picture? Or am I really freaking tired... Lol! There IS a difference... and it bugs me every time I look at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those both the same picture? Or am I really freaking tired... I thought that at first too. But I found it. On the front tower thingie, the windows are normaly angled in one pic, and strangely angled at the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parabolee Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 That 3D model would also account for that vacant stare and caveman forehead of the Guybrush sprite. But why even bother going through all that extra work? Even for reference if needed? Yeah pretty strange. However I don't think it accounts for the Guybrush design as the design is pretty close to the ones see in hand drawn concept art. On LeChuck, his arm is strangely short. But I think he looks great. The original LeChuck was always pretty awful in my opinion, compared to the rest at least. He never received the level of upgrade the rest did in the VGA upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy.brush Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Well it is definitely easier to use a rigged 3d model for posing. Especially when we are talking character sprites that are even more detailed than the CMI ones. Else it would've been a hell of a lot more work. And it is true that beginners might animate a little more stiff if the rig isn't too good for squash and stretch stuff, but I saw colleagues of mine work with 3d posed stuff and then drew over it and it was way out there. Very cool, so it doesn't always have to be more stiff. There might even be a point where it isn't feasible anymore to draw. If you do a movie in 1080p with e.g. 12fps+ animation and you have CMI level character detail it will be a lot of work...a lot. Think about it: back in 1990 they had like 3 animators and with the little pixels it wasn't too difficult for them to all "draw" in the same style. But with those high-res gfx and maybe some not so skilled LucasArts newcomers, it is a lot easier to get everyone on the same line if you provide them with a nicely detailed and fully rigged 3d model to start off from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy.brush Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 There is a great Bill Tiller interview out there where he mentions that they basically HAD to simplify and cartoonify the characters. Working in higher-res you can't do "realistic" characters without a major headache. They needed simpler outlines for the animators. I dunno how much traditional 2D animators LucasArts has on staff, probably only 2 or 3. I find it very understandable that they used the 3d model starting point to get their animations. This way you guarantee that your sprite will always look 99% the same. If you watch cartoons with (tall) human figures in them, they often look slightly different from shot to shot. I wouldn't want that in a videogame. And add to that the fact that the "ink outlines" are never as solid and smooth in a drawn cartoon as in a video game. I'm not saying I hate woobly outlines or rough edges, just that they would mean a totally different art style or MAJOR cleanup Photoshop-style which would not be feasible. Now you might say: What about CMI? Yeah that was handdrawn, but even at 640x480 you feel the rough outlines. I wonder how it would look in 1080p. The art style of MI:SE would not match up to that kind of rough edges. You'd need to design everything around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPeel2001 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 if the xenophobia at cartoonbrew.com is any indication xenophobia or technophobia I guess it's easy to see that adding a lot of the detail via a 3D model is a lot less time consuming when working in such a hi-res. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parabolee Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 I don't know guys, seems like a lot of negativity and nit picking in this thread. I'm I the only one that loves the look of the Special Edition? Most of you seem to have nothing but criticism? I mean believe me, I'm not just loving it because I want to. Take a look at my fixing the SE poster thread. I LOATH the Guybrush on the poster with a passion, and wasn't into the hair on the sprite at first either, but it has really grown on my to the point where I like the SE Guybrush second best. I expected people to not like some elements but I also expected to see some love too, and so far, very little. EDIT: You know what, before I dreail this thread please ignore this post. I'll go create another topic for this discussion :-D OK< please reply to this post in the new topic rather than me derailing this one. Thanks. http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=198610 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickelstein Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I love the new look of SOMI:SE and starting to get over Guybrush's awful hair. And make a thread that is something that I can understand. All this talk of animations and frames has got me confused lol. BTW my 100th post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 100 posts is nothing special. Five thousand is. But anyway, I'm starting to get over how bad Guybrush looks too. Though I still don't like his sprite, makes him look bald around his ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parabolee Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Elaine Marley Don't like how Elaine looks on the poster (too manly) but I think she looks pretty cute here. Although her walk animation is a little stiff. Good job we hardly see it in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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