Alexrd Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Nope. We'll have the new movie trilogy to tear everything we've ever known and loved about that era to pieces. This new cartoon with do that with the Dark Times era, as the previous cartoon has done with the Clone Wars era. I never cared about EU canon controversies. The EU was always secondary in terms of relevance, thus the whole canon hierarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vougalot Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Yes, but for many of us, especially those of us who grew up in the '90s, the EU was every bit Star Wars that the movies were. To continue the stories of our beloved characters in written (novels/comics) or interactive (video games) format? Bro, it was a prayer answered! These great many authors and multimedia creators crafted a network that enriched and deepened what the movies laid down as the groundwork, and it's a shame that the people at Lucas Film have no respect for what they've done in these latest times. Whether you like what they have produced or not, you need to respect not only their efforts, but the special places they've occupied in fans' hearts. I personally prefer the EU to the movies, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 I don't mind if the EU is rewritten... just as long as the best of it is retained in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vougalot Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Yes, I actually agree with that. Rather, I'd personally be a little more strict about it and say that I'd prefer that all major events and establishments remain in place; but if retcons here or there need to take place, or a novel or two needs to be removed from canon, that's fine. As long as the main structure stays in place, I'll be happy. For example, removing the entire Yuuzhan Vong War from canon would be going too far, in my opinion; but if it turns out that events need to be drastically altered to fit the new timeline, that's fine. I tolerated and even welcomed such a thing with The Clone Wars until it started getting ridiculous. Glad George Lucas isn't in charge anymore, but I don't know if Disney will be any more considerate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HED Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Glad George Lucas isn't in charge anymore, but I don't know if Disney will be any more considerate. I don't think they will be, but it will probably be more out of apathy than Lucas' sense of entitlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I know Dave Filoni has stated in a "Rebels" Panel at Celebration Europe II, that he will be keeping his distance from EU characters this time around, as he doesn't want to create a S***storm like he did with Even Piell, Mando's, Quin, Ryloth etc (I'm Paraphrasing of course) Regarding the EU vs the Sequel trilogy: They will not follow the EU, Sad, very sad, but true. as Zerimar said the EU is what sustained me for most of the 80's and 90's, and expanded the great stories from the prequels, and carried the banner thereafter, but unfortunately Lucasfilm do not hold it in such high regard canonically, financially but not canonically. Which brings me to my next point. The Films will not resemble the EU, but they aren't stupid enough to destroy its legacy. I believe the EU will (Should) continue as a separate continuity and remain untouched. There are just too many fans and their income to throw that away. Plus It would be a disaster if JJ decided Han and Leia never got married or had kids, Chewie survived, and Luke was Gay, but then tried to retcon or reboot the EU to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Yes, but for many of us, especially those of us who grew up in the '90s, the EU was every bit Star Wars that the movies were. I know, I was there. But we're not in the '90s anymore (well, in a funny way I guess we are since we are waiting for a new trilogy of movies and EU material is all that's being released now). New movies have been made and a canon hierarchy has been established. Glad George Lucas isn't in charge anymore, I can't believe alleged fans can say things like this. While he's still alive, I would expect people would want as much material from the creators' imagination and views of his universe as possible, instead of complaining about minutiae. And I'm not saying you have to like everything that he does, but at least respect and acknowledge his importance (and respective creativity). Sometimes I think Tolkien, Lovecraft, Fleming, Roddenberry and the like got lucky to live before the mainstream Internet era.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vougalot Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Regarding the EU vs the Sequel trilogy: They will not follow the EU, Sad, very sad, but true. as Zerimar said the EU is what sustained me for most of the 80's and 90's, and expanded the great stories from the prequels, and carried the banner thereafter, but unfortunately Lucasfilm do not hold it in such high regard canonically, financially but not canonically. Which brings me to my next point. The Films will not resemble the EU, but they aren't stupid enough to destroy its legacy. I believe the EU will (Should) continue as a separate continuity and remain untouched. There are just too many fans and their income to throw that away. But that's exactly what we mean when we say we fear that the EU will be "destroyed": being made an alternate continuity from the films exactly as you described. What you said about Lucas Film's attitude toward the EU is spot-on, but it is also fairly recent, having evolved slowly over time. It used to be that George Lucas himself would write forwards for books and showcase video games on late night television. His "I-don't-recognize-any-of-that-stuff-and-it-has-nothing-whatsoever-to-do-with-me" attitude really only came out full-swing within the last decade. I know the man is notorious for claiming that the ideas and opinions he currently holds are what he has held since the day of his conception, but the evidence is always overwhelmingly to the contrary, whether we're talking about story or character concepts or his attitude toward things like the Expanded Universe. That said, one thing that has always been unique about the Star Wars franchise is just how much reverence Lucas Film has shown to its Expanded Universe almost from the start, officially licensing it, and even going out of their way to ensure that a mostly cohesive narrative existed among its material. This had never happened before, to my knowledge. I'm thankful that my favorite fictional universe has not suffered from the same mess Star Trek has, where no care is given whatsoever to anything other than film material, writers are on their own, things clash and contradict one another, and everything is chaos. The latter is essentially glorified fan fiction. Undoing this now (or ever) would be a tremendous slap in the face not only to all of those authors who toiled endlessly to craft such a masterpiece, but to the fans who have enjoyed it as well. I know, I was there. But we're not in the '90s anymore (well, in a funny way I guess we are since we are waiting for a new trilogy of movies and EU material is all that's being released now). New movies have been made and a canon hierarchy has been established. Yes, and do you know why that canon hierarchy was established? To ensure that almost everything fits together. Couple this with what I said to Adamqd above and you'll know what I'm talking about. I can't believe alleged fans can say things like this. While he's still alive, I would expect people would want as much material from the creators' imagination and views of his universe as possible, instead of complaining about minutiae. And I'm not saying you have to like everything that he does, but at least respect and acknowledge his importance (and respective creativity). "Alleged" fans, huh? I find this insulting. I never said anything like what you are describing. Did you know that I was one of the few who defended George Lucas with a passion while he was hounded about the prequels by "fans" and non-fans alike? Did you know that when I usually watch the films on DVD or Blu-Ray, I usually watch them with the commentary on (and finding myself wishing I had the option to listen only to Mr. Lucas and not those other guys)? Did you know that I have written piles of letters to him since I was about seven years old thanking him for what he has given me? Did you know that, although I have been irritated by all of the major continuity problems created by The Clone Wars, I still loved watching it simply because I loved the fact that the creator of Star Wars was still sharing with his his vision? Did you know that George Lucas is listed as one of the people I admire on my Facebook page? No, you probably didn't. So kindly save your judgments about the legitimacy of my fandom, sir. You know where you can shove them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Alexrd, questioning peoples levels of Star Wars fandom since 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vougalot Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I know, right? I'd like to add to what I said by pointing out that one is by no means a bad or "alleged" fan by simply thinking that the creator of his favorite series has run dry of most good ideas, disagreeing with some of the steps he has taken in recent time and thinking it best that he ought to step down. His simply means that one is one's own person and not a blind follower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Yes, and do you know why that canon hierarchy was established? To ensure that almost everything fits together. And that whenever contradictions exist we know what takes precedence. "Alleged" fans, huh? I find this insulting. What? I didn't say it as an insult, sorry if it came out that way. I never said anything like what you are describing. But what I described can only exist if the creator is in charge of his creation. Did you know that I was one of the few who defended George Lucas with a passion while he was hounded about the prequels by "fans" and non-fans alike? Did you know that when I usually watch the films on DVD or Blu-Ray, I usually watch them with the commentary on (and finding myself wishing I had the option to listen only to Mr. Lucas and not those other guys)? Did you know that I have written piles of letters to him since I was about seven years old thanking him for what he has given me? Did you know that, although I have been irritated by all of the major continuity problems created by The Clone Wars, I still loved watching it simply because I loved the fact that the creator of Star Wars was still sharing with his his vision? Did you know that George Lucas is listed as one of the people I admire on my Facebook page? No, you probably didn't. No, I certainly didn't. And if you got all that, how does that fit with being glad that Lucas is not in charge? So kindly save your judgments about the legitimacy of my fandom, sir. You know where you can shove them. And who questioned your fandom's legitimacy? I expressed my disbelief that people would prefer someone other than the one who created the franchise in charge while he still can. And I don't know how much of a fan you are, therefore the use of "alleged". Alexrd, questioning peoples levels of Star Wars fandom since 2008. Once again, I didn't. I'd like to add to what I said by pointing out that one is by no means a bad or "alleged" fan by simply thinking that the creator of his favorite series has run dry of most good ideas, disagreeing with some of the steps he has taken in recent time and thinking it best that he ought to step down. His simply means that one is one's own person and not a blind follower. I clearly stated (already expecting a reply like this): And I'm not saying you have to like everything that he does (...). As an example, I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HED Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 But that's exactly what we mean when we say we fear that the EU will be "destroyed": being made an alternate continuity from the films exactly as you described. While it isn't an ideal situation, I'd prefer the EU as we have it become an alternate continuity if it meant that Dark Horse and the other publishers would continue their work without having to reconcile their stories with any inconsistencies caused by the sequels overwriting older EU stories. That'd be preferable to all the post-RotJ EU content being cancelled and ignored in favor of stuff centered around the sequels. I expressed my disbelief that people would prefer someone other than the one who created the franchise in charge while he still can. I really don't see what's so unbelievable about that. Being the creator of a property doesn't mean you're the one best suited to continuing it. You see this in comics all the time. Just because Stan Lee is still alive doesn't mean he's the best choice to be in charge of the Spider-Man franchise. That time has passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 A man once spoke out against the alteration and desecration of media that had a cultural impact on society. He advocated for the preservation of these pieces of art, they needed to be protected as they were for future generations... even if they needed to be protected from their very creators. Actually, I think that was George Lucas who took that stand... a long time ago, before he decided it would be a good idea to create the special editions, prequel trilogies and continuous retouches per home media release of Star Wars. He was once a man we could trust, at that time, with his own creations... over time, he became a man who tried to, in his mind, fix his own movies but ended up butchering them more and more. So yes, while we're all greatful for what he started, in the end, he himself turned to the dark side. All he could do now, in recent years, is hand over the mantle of responsibility to someone else and hope they do a better job of doing what he couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 A man once spoke out against the alteration and desecration of media that had a cultural impact on society. He advocated for the preservation of these pieces of art, they needed to be protected as they were for future generations... even if they needed to be protected from their very creators. Actually no, he was talking against studios changing films (at the time they were colourizing black and white films), not the directors. He was never against the creators changing their creations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 I don't mind if creators change their works, that's all well and good and if they want to change a whole bunch of stuff, good on them... What I do mind is when creators change their works and make it impossible for people to get the original versions of said works. It doesn't matter who the entity is that is changing that work, what Lucas was talking about back then was preserving the original copies of those works of art and making them available to people. Are the Special Edition onward versions of Star Wars the original copies? If people go to a store and buy Star Wars on Blu-ray, are they getting a copy of those movies that are as close to the original theatrical version as possible? No. We're not. The preservation and availability of those versions is being lost or has been lost completely in any legitimate form that you can own legally. If someone, and it doesn't matter how, it could be the original creator or the studio that holds the rights to it or whatever, wants to make a version of A New Hope where Vader rides in his first scene on a pink unicorn, sure, why not. Go ahead... you can do just that as long as you provide me with the original unaltered version. Doesn't matter who is doing the altering, that would be missing the point entirely. Of course, if I'm wrong then my opinion of him would be lowered... I'd rather think of him as once having a good stance on the preservation of cultural artifacts than not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I don't mind if creators change their works, that's all well and good and if they want to change a whole bunch of stuff, good on them... What I do mind is when creators change their works and make it impossible for people to get the original versions of said works. It doesn't matter who the entity is that is changing that work, what Lucas was talking about back then was preserving the original copies of those works of art and making them available to people. I want the theatrical versions of the movies as much as you do, but that's a completely different thing from what he was defending. He was defending the preservation of those films because the studios were altering them without the creator's consent, thus making the version that they intended unavailable to anyone. We can't take the context away and judge it. Are the Special Edition onward versions of Star Wars the original copies? Again, the speech he made wasn't about theatrical versions vs changed versions, it was about changes being made without the creators approval or consent (most of them were dead at the time). He took a stance and defended that those original versions (which as far as we know were the final and intended versions for their creators) should be preserved. That's not the case with Star Wars and there is no contradiction. Doesn't matter who is doing the altering, that would be missing the point entirely. No, it does matter because the speech he made is all about that. Studios changing movies without "permission" by their creators. That's why Lucas fought so hard to own his movies. So that couldn't happen and that he could do whatever he wants with them (for good or bad) without the studio having any say on the matter. And again, I want the theatrical versions as well, but to say that that speech goes against what he's done is fallacious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamqd Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 The only problems I have with any of the "Changes", are both from Return of the Jedi: Lapti Nek being revamped to the Jedi Rocks number in Jabba's Palace. And, Vader now screaming Nooooooo as the Emperor electrocutes Luke in the Death Star II... I much prefer the subtle version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 @ Alexrd: I guess you're right, when I go back to read it again... it's even more depressing when I think about it now. His stance is "it's my movies and I'll do whatever I want with them"... okay... I guess... it's an unfortunate stance since such cultural artifacts, to me, belong to more than just the person who created it. As amazing as it would be for Da Vinci to come back from the dead, walk into the louvre and decide to make alterations to the Mona Lisa... it would be a great cultural disaster. That's why a lot of people are glad Lucas doesn't have control over Star Wars any more... but that doesn't mean the people who have control now are any better. Maybe the Chinese can save Star Wars like in South Park... who knows. Or maybe Disney will make something good of this... we'll just have to see. @ adamqd: There are a few changes I like from the special edition... such as the revamped Battle of Yavin, making those X-Wing's look really good. However, as I said, I'd still rather we had access to the original versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shem Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 (This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.) (This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Hessian Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Meh, looks like just another Clone Wars to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexrd Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I was about to post this yesterday, but couldn't find the thread about it. Maybe update the title to Star Wars Rebels? NYCC 2013: Meet the Inquisitor, the New Face of Evil in Star Wars Rebels The next great villain from a galaxy far, far away is here. Fans attending Lucasfilm's Star Wars Rebels panel today at New York Comic Con got the world's first look at the Inquisitor, a black-clad, intimidating figure who will play a prominent role in the upcoming animated series. In a special video (available below) screened at the end of the panel, Star Wars Rebels executive producer Dave Filoni officially revealed the character, showing a sculpted maquette, design sketches, and disclosing that the Inquisitor is "tasked by Darth Vader to hunt down the remaining Jedi Knights." The panel, hosted by Lucasfilm's Pablo Hidalgo, focused on the Empire and how it is central to the story of Star Wars Rebels. Hidalgo revealed that the series takes place about 14 years after the events of Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith, a time in which the Emperor's rule is secure and the Empire is seeking to expand its power to Outer Rim territories. That leads Imperial forces to Lothal, a poor planet that initially welcomes the Empire on the promise of security and prosperity. It soon becomes obvious, however, that the Empire does not have Lothal's best interests at heart, as the Imperials exploit its people and begin recruiting young citizens to join TIE fighter and Stormtrooper academies, or to work in the Sienar Fleet Systems factory -- which builds TIE fighters -- in the planet's capital. Hidalgo showed new art focusing on Lothal, including the planet itself, a town, and alleyways, as well as an Empire recruitment poster. The show is fully embracing the Star Wars legacy, taking direct inspiration from the original trilogy and its concept artist Ralph McQuarrie. Hidalgo displayed new Star Wars Rebels imagery and animation models for Stormtroopers, Star Destroyers, TIE fighters, and TIE fighter pilots, all of which fit seamlessly with classic Star Wars. Additionally, Hidalgo introduced several new Imperial vehicles and designs created for the series: the All Terrain Defense Pod (AT-DP), a ground attack walker based on an early Joe Johnston (the filmmaker who designed Boba Fett's armor and speeder bikes, and made other major contributions to Star Wars) illustration from 1979; the new AT-DP pilot, which blends designs of the classic AT-AT walker driver from Star Wars: Episode V The Empire Strikes Back and the AT-ST walker pilot from Star Wars: Episode VI Return of the Jedi; the Imperial Troop Transport, which comes from an early Kenner toy that was actually not based on designs from the films; and the Imperial freighter, a reimagining of an Imperial-style craft designed for Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace by concept artist Doug Chiang, featuring a dock to transport TIE fighters from system to system. If anything was made clear at today's panel, it's that the Empire is back -- thanks to Star Wars Rebels. Star Wars Rebels is set to debut on Disney XD in 2014. Stay tuned to StarWars.com for more on this highly anticipated animated series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'm pretty excited for this. I liked CW well enough and much prefer the move to the OT era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 In terms of Rebels looking like Clone Wars... I pretty much figured it would since it's the same concept, different era, kind of series. It is a kids show after all. I'm going to give it a shot though since it's taking reference from an era we all see as being classic. I'm hoping that some of that oldskool charm will rub off onto this series and something better will come of it than just the minimum clone wars level of... whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shem Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 I'm really interested to see how they'll tie up TCW and begin Rebels. It's a really interesting transition from one series into another and I wonder if they'll actually acknowledge it through some kind of story element in the finale and beginning of those two series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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