Thermal Detonators

[SlowbieOne]

I recall someone on these forums saying in the December issue of PC Gamer, there are pictures that indicate that the thermal detonator explosions, are just as small as in the original JK. I can't remember who posted this or what thread it was.

 

Anyway, I suspect something called a thermal detonator would give off quite a blast, as opposed to some blast that is quite frankly, ineffective. Don't get me wrong, I HAVE killed people with them, and it CAN be done, but you had to hit them with about 4-5 to do the job, assuming they have full health. I found this very annoying.

 

What Lucasarts is saying, is in Return of the Jedi, when Leia was threatening Jabba with that thermal, he acted like it would have blown the whole place to bits. And according to JK, it would've barely scratched Jabba at his size!

 

I would make the thermals have a range of at least a 10 foot radius. Especially since LA announced the thermals can be deflected with the saber.

 

I don't know if it's just me, but I expect more from a thermal detonator. If Raven doesn't balance out these factors, I'm afraid the T.D.'s will just take a back seat once again and do what they did best for all of us JK'ers: COLLECT DUST

[StormHammer]

I used to use the TDs frequently in SP...especially in the secondary fire mode. They were useful for bouncing around corners, or dropping down shafts. The sound used to attract the Stormies, and the blast killed them.

 

I don't remember having to hit them 4-5 times with a TD...just 1 usually did the trick if my aim was good enough...and it did kill more than one enemy if they were grouped close enough together.

 

I do agree that they were not as powerful as originally suggested in ROTJ...however, the danger is to make them too powerful, like a room clearing device...and that might reduce the fun factor.

 

I mean, to have the destructive power to knock down Jabba's Palace, you are really talking about a weapon similar to the Redeemer in UT...and personally I thought that weapon was far too powerful.

 

So yes, by all means make the TDs a bit more powerful...but not so that it hurts the gameplay.

 

Also, on the subject of thrown devices, I wouldn't mind seeing some more variation. We had the flash grenades in MotS...why not introduce something like an EMP or Ion Pulse grenade, or a Smoker to give you cover?

[Guest JediKnight_114[b]]

In JK, it took 2 TDs to kill one enemy with full health even with a direct hit. That is, playing on hard.

 

If you read the book "Star by Star" they use TDs an awful lot, and I think they were portrayed very realisticly well. They vaped anything in their blast radius, then sucked all the energy back to the center of the blast zone, leaving everything outside the radius untouched. Then, if they had a 10 foot radius in the game, get it close to your target, and they're toast. Outside the radius, it's a miss. That would make it easy to get the hang of and make it a good explosive that is actually usefull for killing rather than JKs which were good stunners unless you had time to throw two.

[Millions o' Monkeys]

i dont believe they need a bigger blast radius that would be fairly stupid, Becaue im expecting JK2 to have shrapnel, so that would get rid of the need for a blast radius.

 

If the TD was about the same as the grenade in Max Payne that would be perfect.

[cossack1812]

Deflecting TDs?

Wouldn't that set them off, right in your face?

[Jedi Howell1587246488]

'deflecting w/ lightsaber' wasn't exactly teh best turn. i believe it would be more accurate to say that u deflected them w/ teh force.

 

jh

[michael1587246523]

In the star wars story, Assault at Selonia, Leia uses her lightsaber to deflect a thermal detonator. But has anyone read shadows of the empire?(book not game) That suggessts that there many different types of detonators, and says that lando uses a class A TD. Doesnt this mean there are different classes of power in a TD? Maybe the ones in DF1 and JK1 were class z..........

[Kurt Plummer]

The Russians have something called a 'Thermobaric' with which they've replaced the standard flame thrower.

 

It is actually a small, manportable, rocket like a LAW but it works by poking a hole in an object with a shaped charge and then jettisoning a small granulated powder suspended in an aerosol mist which is subsequently detonated (after impact).

 

This is effectively the equivalent of what we type-describe as an 'FAE' or Fuel Air Explosive with similarly deadly overpressure effects in a fairly small device.

 

Indeed, the Russian RPO-A 'Schmel' or Bumblebee has an area lethality effect of roughly 50m square in open terrain and about 80m CUBED in a closed volume.

 

Fired into a building the outward pop and subsequent inrush 'BA-WHOOMP!' of air will literally collapse a multistory structure like it was a tinker toy. (There are also RPO-Z straight up incendiary and RPO-D Smoke versions).

 

If you took a similar 'explosive energy binding' type technologic approach in SW (less chemical messiness, more flash and zap SFX wow factor) you could do some amazing things...

 

Put Another Way:

 

Watched a movie a few years back.

 

Starred Charlie Sheen I think it was, as an astronomer dude who discovers aliens have 'already arrived' and are pumping out mondo quantities of greenhouse gas from 'their secret base in Mexico' (no bean jokes please...;-) to up the temps and kill us all.

 

Eventually ends in one of the Very Large Array railroad antenna clusters where the Aliens, knowing they've been caught, shed their 'just like human' skins and run away like ostriches after having deployed a 'remove the evidence' weapon which rises on a hover field, deploys a 'mass anchor' that sucks everything into it and then gives you one heck of a flash-ring like effect (Aliens the Nostromo blowup) which basically /eats/ this 10-20 story tall, football-field wide, antenna dish, right down to the ground.

 

For JKO, an 'Inny or Outy' (implosive or explosive) yield choice would be effectively the same as current Z-mode and you could then set the POWER of the yield by holding down a 'louder whine' control to vary the amount of actual destruction done before release.

 

How far and hard would be selected by computer driven object distance under the crosshairs.

 

Such would be a _superb weapon_, IMO. If only because it would let you pass quickly through effected areas (no fires, no hull punctures), would not /necessarily/ damage fixed electronic equipment. Even as the graphics effect of Imps flying through air into a tangled ball of limbs and white hot energy would be funny as hell...;-]

 

The other stuff, I also back up. Smoke and Noise (flashbangs) are called DD's or 'Distraction Devices' by SWAT/SRT type folks and they are nice because they can pac a lot of broken ear drum into a very small lethality globe for when you want everybody on the floor unable to coordinate their limbs but not necessarily dead.

 

I frankly doubt if that would work on Imps with their protective helmets but it would surely clear a corridor through a crowd of civillians when 'another ten Gamorreans arrived' and just wanted to _get away_.

 

Speaking of which, one thing to keep in mind is that this is still basically just a repeat of existing technologies and visual effects with fire and smoke never appearing all that 'high tech', on-screen.

 

As such, I would like to also suggest the equivalent of a **masking aid** so that you could setup a small, high-density, holographic projector and wham-bam, a corridor is empty even when it's not or a wall appears contiguous even when there is a doorway (which you are hiding in) in the middle of it.

 

Imagine: you come huffing and puffing around a corner, 20 Imps hot on your heals, step into a doorway and...vanish. Only to take off the opposite direction when the herd goes thundering by.

 

Jedi don't kill when they have a choice and when badly outnumbered even /that choice/ may not be available.

 

And again IT WOULD LOOK SO KEWL!!:-))

 

 

Kurt Plummer

 

 

LINKS-

Russian 'Thermobaric' Weapons: Pure Nasty http://www.milparade.com/1998/26/040.htm http://www.ichkeria.org/a/2000/9/com1609-en132823.html http://www.carigroup.com/offers/01596.html http://www.mail-archive.com/msa_ec@listbot.com/msg00743.html

[toms]

Different types of detonator would be cool. I never actually got flashbangs to work in JK, but it would be cool if they did. Smoke grenades would be cool too.

(It would actually be nice if certain enemies were immune/less affected by certain weapons. That way you would have to employ some variation in tactics.

 

A smoke grenade/force sight combo would be a cool way to take out enemies, but maybe stormies would be able to see through smoke, be imune to flashbangs due to their helmets. Definately explain why they wore the damn things...the armour seems totally pointless after all.

 

On the other hand, ion grenades would probably have no effect on most creatures, shut down droids and blind stormies as they took out their electro-senses.

 

HAving TDs with a power setting, that start whining when thrown and take longer to go off the more power they are set to would be cool. Imagine throwing one into a room and watching everyone run for cover...

And having some sort of 3D expanding sphere effect would be much cooler than those poor explosion bitmaps...

 

tomS

 

ps/ the best grenades in an FPS were the ALiens v predator shrapnel grenades.. that peppered the entire room with hot glowing spikes.. they rocked. (At least visually.)

anyone played AvP2 yet? they in it?

[SlowbieOne]

I don't remember having to hit them 4-5 times with a TD...just 1 usually did the trick if my aim was good enough...and it did kill more than one enemy if they were grouped close enough together.

 

Sorry Stormhammer, I shouldv'e made myself more clear.

 

Maybe it would take 1 to the face of Stormtroopers, but in MP, it takes 2 direct hits. But when I said 4-5, I was refering to MP and hitting them with splash damage. Hitting people in MP with 2 direct hits, is no easy feat. If you are playing someone who's halfway decent anyway.

 

I just think 1 should be able to do the job, splash damage or direct hits.

 

Of course when I said I think the blast radius should be bigger, I didn't mean it should be like the Redeemer blast. That was ridiculously big.

 

What I picture is about twice as big as the original blast.

[StormHammer]

Hey SlowbieOne...no problem. My misunderstanding.

 

I agree with your idea about the blast radius.

 

TomS...nice idea for a 3D expanding sphere. I'm a bit tired of the usual bitmaps too.

 

And you hit the nail on the head with the EMP/Ion grenade...that was how I imagined it, though I forgot to write it down. If it could disrupt terminals, droids (including Imperial Probes and Scouts), Stormie/Bounty Hunter helmets, some weapons reliant on electronic gadgetry etc., it could be quite effective.

 

Of course, I also forgot to mention...

 

Gas Grenades...for knocking out susceptible enemies. They shouldn't work on Stormies, who should have built-in air-filtration systems, of course. But they could be useful against local predators, humans, and some alien species.

[Alan1587246518]

In a way, I'd prefer to have very few TD's in JK2. That way it would make you have to think tactically about how to use the bigger blast radius. Would it be worth it to use a TD on 5 or 6 guys when there is possibly dozens in the next room?

On the other hand, it'd be kinda cool to be able open a door, lob in a TD, step back...

BOOM.

[Philbo]

i think the only star wars game so far that's portrayed it right was The Phantom Menace. am i right?

[SlowbieOne]

In TPM, not only were the blasts just as big as the Redeemer, the blasts went through walls too.

 

So we have thermals portrayed 2 different ways in 2 different Star Wars games.

 

Does this mean this time they will make it in between?

[SlowbieOne]

Now that's a thermal blast!

 

Looks like I can quiet my worries about this one. It looks absolutely perfect.

[Guest xwing guy]

That blast looks awesome, but wish it was bigger.

[StephenG]

BOOM!

 

look at those stoomies fly!

[StormHammer]

I like that screenshot...and I think I've just noticed something rather interesting.

 

Look on the floor immediately in front - there's a blast burn there...and if I'm not mistaken, blood spatters. Ooooohhhh....nice.

[DeathBoLT]

RAVEN has given TDs the room clearing power they deserved all along

[StephenG]

Originally posted by StormHammer:

<STRONG>I like that screenshot...and I think I've just noticed something rather interesting.

 

Look on the floor immediately in front - there's a blast burn there...and if I'm not mistaken, blood spatters. Ooooohhhh....nice. </STRONG>

 

it's looks more like rust to me.

[aferens]

Hmm...did they re-use the HUD? I get a really strong feeling of Deja-vu...

[Bartolo_JCS]

if you've played the phantom menace game, very gay game, the thermal detonators blast is humungous i dare you to toss it by your feet

[GonkH8er]

It's rust and mold i believe...

 

but it kind of seems like the blast in fron tof us has left a square shaped marking that seems to not blend with the surrounding floor texture.....

[A Big Fat CoW]

about the explosion being small in the screenshot..

 

i beleive that the screen is of a just-detonated thermal, seeing as the shockwave ring is bright orange, and the firey stuff still looks like its expanding. if it were at the peak fo its explosion, the ring would be dimmer, or not there at all, and the explosion wouldnt look so compact or whatever. explosions go from small, to big, to small again, so i doubt that's as big as the explosions will get. now, i could be wrong, cuz i know nearly nothing about real explosives, this is just an educated guess based on sheer logic... then again, my logic is usually flawed, soo...

[cossack1812]

First of all a big welcome to the forums Mr Large Cow

*hands gift basket

 

Second, Gonk you must have been staring at that pic for a while to pic that up