Someone explain to me what the fuss about the graphics is about?

[Wilhuf]

Why did we fuss about the Jedi Outcast screenshots? Because we didn't have any other Star Wars PC FPS game to fuss about.

[Ki-Adi-Mundi]

Wilhuf, huh?

 

I agree with Joe. By the time that Jk2 will be out, the graphics may be better than tribes 2, then it's brother game in development by Raven, Soldier of Fortune II, and possibly D3. I'm not really worried that much about the graphics. Just as long as I can set them how I want them on my machine, I'll be fine. Whether it's all the way up, or all the way down (hopefully not), I'll still play it.

 

So Jedi Killer, get the point of what everyone has been saying (mostly everyone anyway), Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast has only been in development for a few months. We can't really judge the game yet. If you want to go back and find some shots of Tribes 2 at this level of development and compare them there, then do so.

 

Originally posted by Jedi Killer

And as for the environments--its your basic base look. Nothing much more complex than what JK had or what has been released by the community. But the screenshots simply can't compare to the stuff that has been under construction for a while--Wolfenstein and Medal of Honor come to mind.

I just have to hit on this.

 

Do you know what we were seeing in the little 15 second movie and in the screenshots? A demo level made specifially for E3 2001. They probably made it in like 30 minutes, give or take a few. It wasn't designed to dazzle the eyes of the viewers, just to provide a place for Kyle to show off some of his Jedi skills after being in-active for a few years. He can still slay the stormies just fine as we saw from the movie in the demo level. They weren't really trying to show off the environment. But the background was pretty nice IMO.

[Sifl]

Originally posted by Jedi_Killer:

<STRONG>Sifl--all magazine promotional shots and stuff for print adds use the higher resolution models. They don't want it to look so game-y. It's pretty standard. By standard I mean that pretty much every company does it.</STRONG>

 

These aren't print ads. And they're not using higher resolution models than are used in-game.

 

<STRONG>It's funny that you mentioned JK, Half-Life, and Tomb Raider as having sub-par graphics. All of them had above average graphics and were the best looking game at the respective times of their release.</STRONG>

 

Certainly not! Quake3, Unreal Tournament and Heretic II all looked better than Half-Life. Quake (or was it Quake 2?) looked much better than Tomb Raider. Hexen II and Unreal looked much better than JK. But those were good games regardless of behind a bit behind on the graphics curve. That's my point.

 

<STRONG>due to copyright laws I'm sure they had to completly start over from scratch.</STRONG>

 

Ah, no, they didn't.

 

 

[ed_silvergun]

Originally posted by Archie:

<STRONG>Actually, nitpicking, but doubling the polycount isn't an issue of the engine. It's simply they used more in characters/level design. The actually code is probably no different to handle that.</STRONG>

 

My mistake. Bad phrasiology. What I meant to say was that they had doubled the polygon capacity of the Quake III engine. Quite what tweaks or changes this entails I couldn't tell you. Maybe Raven (if they're reading this) could tell us.

[COWB0Y]

yes immersion is important, but hell JK immersed me in its sp gameplay, as did doom2 and hexen....

 

all of them come no where near the graphical capabilities of the q3 team arena engine.

 

gameplay and story are what its all about, graphics is secondary... don't get me wrong i like games to look as good as possible but not at the expense of gameplay.

[Jedi_Killer1587246491]

Okay--when JK was released there was basically no other 3d FPS games yet. Quakeworld was the competition. JK allowed larger outdoor environments and had support for 3d acceleration out of the box. Quake 2 was released a few months later and it definitly overshadowed JK if you had a 3d card. Without one there isn't that much difference.

JK also slipped quite a bit in its release date--it could have been out even sooner but that would have required patching.

 

Tomb Raider was amazing technology. It provided lush 3d worlds on the playstation and its microscopic amounts of RAM. It was on the PC about a year or so before JK. Again, its on par with Quake 1 but not quite as nice as Jedi was.

 

Half-Life came out in November 98, Q3test wasn't even around for another few months. UT was much later too. Half-Life was also a monster of a game. It won best of E3 for two years in a row I believe, so the game was pretty well-known.

 

Okay about ownership of game development technology. It's going to depend on the developer and how experienced they are. I would imagine that Raven does pretty well, but I'm sure Activision owns at least part of the rights for SOF and EF. I doubt they would be all that willing to turn the technology over to their competitors (LEC) to use in a game they are publishing. Hence its probably similiar technology but unique.

 

Dark Forces had some pretty cool technology in it too. In addition to the 2.5d level design that the better FPS games had at the time, it allowed secondary fire effectivly doubling the number of guns. Also it had a really cool second engine that was real 3d. So blaster bolts were possible and a few areas with bridges that you could go under and over--that hadn't been done before to my knowledge.

 

JK also had great technology. JK2 is using a really good engine, but its getting old. Look at Anachronox. It's going to be finished at the end of the month supposedly. It uses the Quake 2 engine and it looks like it will have excellent gameplay. I'll get it since I'v been looking forward to it for like 4 years, but the graphics really can't compare to current games. I doubt it will sell very well since you have to have a pretty game in addition to good gameplay.

[Ki-Adi-Mundi]

Half-Life is cool. But it came out a year after JK. That's when things really started picking up in teh gaming industry. Jedi Knight was just the beginning. Jk, QuakeII, HL, UT, SOF. All those games started coming out shortly after Jk did.

[matt--]

Originally posted by COWB0Y:

<STRONG>yes immersion is important, but hell JK immersed me in its sp gameplay</STRONG>

I hear ya there.

<STRONG>

as did doom2 and hexen....

</STRONG>

Doom2...I loved it, but immersive? Did you actually think a cyberdemon was gonna blast through your door and pump your ass full of rockets. Well I didn't.

[Sifl]

Originally posted by Jedi_Killer:

<STRONG>Okay--when JK was released there was basically no other 3d FPS games yet.

</STRONG>

 

Well, except for Hexen II... and Unreal & QII came out soon afterward.

 

<STRONG>Half-Life came out in November 98, Q3test wasn't even around for another few months. UT was much later too.</STRONG>

 

Ah, yeah, right, got my years wrong there. However, SiN and Heretic II came out at that time and both looked at least as good as Half-Life, graphically.

 

<STRONG>I would imagine that Raven does pretty well, but I'm sure Activision owns at least part of the rights for SOF and EF.</STRONG>

 

Activision owns Raven. LEC is essentially hiring Activision to do JKII, so it would seem there are no ownership conflicts.

 

I agree about DF & JK, both had very detailed gameplay and were ahead-of-their times in technology.

[Ki-Adi-Mundi]

LEC is also, letting/hiring Activision to distribute JKII throughout Europe, which Activision does a lot of anyway.

 

I've never played Doom2. Just the original Doom for NES. Or was it just the Nintendo? That was such a long time ago.

 

And I quote the Iguana:

"So young, So violent, damn that [Doom Video Game]"

[GonkH8er]

lets just all wait for the next batch of screenshots

[Ki-Adi-Mundi]

Have you any _idea_ how long that could possibly be!?¿ That could be tomorrow, next week, next month, a day before the game comes out even!!!!!!

[GonkH8er]

Originally posted by Ki-Adi-Mundi:

<STRONG>Have you any _idea_ how long that could possibly be</STRONG>

 

 

yes, i do

[Skystalker]

I don't know what you've been smoking but those look like some of the best graphics ever to me. Besides, screenshots NEVER show how the game really looks. No worries here.

[Guest Vagabond]

Everyone, just calm down. The game will look fine. If it's the most amazing, cutting-edge, and breath-taking graphics to date that you want, JKII will not have that. But it will have very good graphics.

 

 

JKII is going to be a book with a nice cover, and a good story to boot. Don't get your pannies in a wad just yet

 

[ June 09, 2001: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

[GonkH8er]

fear not.....my pannies are 100% un-wadded.....

[Guest Vagabond]

Good, Obi-Wad has taught you well

 

Boooo!!!

[Rancor]

Vagabond knows where it's at. I completely agree that what we've seen so far is completely acceptable.

 

Anyway, if there is too much focus on the graphics, you end up with something like Unreal. Man, that game looked so amazing when it first came out...in fact, it still looks freaking amazing when I crank up all of the features. But it just was never very fun to play. If I ever got very far in that game, it was just for the visuals. And that didn't keep me playing or coming back for more.

[CaptainRAVE]

I would have thought much better, but the gameplay will feel exactly the same (like AI etc) cause their beein made in parrallel meaning they'll both utilise each others features! NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gus]

IMO graphics is secondary to gameplay a close second is the multiplayer quality of the game.

 

i also believe beheading & Screaming foes are a must

[StormHammer]

Gameplay comes before graphics every time with me. I got JK and QII around the same time. QII may have looked better...but I've played the whole game through twice. I've played JK through to the end a lot more, and JK is back on my hard drive right now, together with MotS. I've even fired up Heretic II again. It's all in the gameplay.

 

Although I want JKO to look good (and it certainly does even now), I'll be far more interested in how the game plays.

 

That is why I was so concerned about the omission of the moral play - the choice between Dark and Light side - because it was a fundamental part of JK's singleplayer game.

 

IMHO, Raven should be careful that they don't strip out those elements that were unique to JK and made it such a different experience to other FPS games. JK was a game that taught you about consequences of actions within the game, and that is something missing from almost every other FPS so far. There should be rewards, but there should also be consequences, IMO.

[CaptainRAVE]

WOW...you lot write alot!

[GonkH8er]

and you dont

 

prolly why u have 260 posts, eh?

[COWB0Y]

Doom2...I loved it, but immersive? Did you actually think a cyberdemon was gonna blast through your door and pump your ass full of rockets. Well I didn't

 

no, but to be honest i didnt think a storm trooper was gonna bust through my door either.

[Mattpitt]

I'm sorry mate but u dont no wat ur talking about. This is Quake 3 engine heavily modified they double the polygon count and it looks brilliant 4 something thats been in development 4 only 11 weeks.!