What to rebuild?

[Guest Krayt Tion]

 

No, this isn't just an excuse to flash the latest trendy internet image.

 

In all seriousness you have probably already heard some debates about if or what we should rebuild in the place of the two WTC towers in lower Manhattan. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts. Plus, I think it is good to have another thread at this point dedicated to the healing and rebuilding our nation must do instead of the destruction which we have mostly been focusing on.

 

Many seem to want to build a single new tower in the place of the WTC taller than even the twin towers were and perhaps taller than the current tallest free-standing structure in the world, the CN Tower. This could of course serve as a rather defiant symbol of our might, resolve, and economy in this tragedy; a huge tower rebuilt and shooting boldy off into the sky taller and more pronounced than before.

 

Many others would prefer a more modest memorial in the place of the WTC. It could most likely still be very elegant and splendid, or perhaps simple and refined, serving as a more sobering reminder of what this tragedy meant for America.

 

There are a handful of others calling for the towers themselves to be rebuilt, but I don't see many benefits of that myself.

 

Either way you've got to figure that anything rebuilt there is likely to be very dramatic and important to the American people. Thus, anything built in the former location of the WTC is going to be an even more appealing target to hit again for terrorists. However, the whole point of this war on terrorism and terrorists is that we shouldn't have to worry about being devastated by them while we enjoy the freedoms of democratic society and living.

 

What do you think?

[Guest digl]

I had not heard any debates, but since the first moment I thaught the towers would be rebuilt just like they were before, with an impressive memorial of course

I had also thaught of an even taller building

Im not sure, but I think Id be inclined for the towers rebuilt identical

[Swoosh]

I am all for building a more impressive, taller, and more grand building that tributes to the memory of those lost in some way. Maybe each section of the building could have a name of a victim...then perhaps a huge American flag could be flown from the top...if you've even been to Cancun, you've seen the gigantic Mexican flag. Something like that would be amazing, all of New York could see it. I am for standing up to this and showing the terrorist their efforts are not hurting us as a nation, but bringing us together...exactly what they did not want to do.

 

Swoosh

[matt--]

Bigger taller better.

[Darien]

Originally posted by Swoosh:

<STRONG>I am all for building a more impressive, taller, and more grand building that tributes to the memory of those lost in some way. Maybe each section of the building could have a name of a victim...then perhaps a huge American flag could be flown from the top...if you've even been to Cancun, you've seen the gigantic Mexican flag. Something like that would be amazing, all of New York could see it. I am for standing up to this and showing the terrorist their efforts are not hurting us as a nation, but bringing us together...exactly what they did not want to do.

 

Swoosh</STRONG>

 

i agree totally.

[Ice Man1587246496]

I am for building two twin towers again. It shows that America will not be scared into a corner because of a terrorist attack. However I don't think that they should go off and build that tallest building in the world. That would simply be showing off, and may appear arrogant, making the America-hating countries hate America even more. We want to show resiliency and resolve. I suggest building twin towers, mighty, perhaps with a slightly different, but not too showy design. Keep it modest. At the base, in a large plaza, have a huge memorial with the names of the confirmed dead carved into marble or stone. The tragic events of Tuesday should never be forgotten!

 

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: Ice Man ]

[StormHammer]

I've commented about this on another forum - I guess this is the place to do it on this one.

 

Don't take any of this as criticism - I simply wish to point out a few things that I believe are extremely important.

 

You should carefully consider the future when you do rebuild. Consider, if you will, some of the reasons why so many people are probably dead as a result of this terrorist attack...

 

1. These buildings were so immense in size that they could hold a vast number of people. A heavily congested area is a primary target of any terrorist group or action.

 

2. Due to their size, many of the people could not get out in time prior to collapse. Those on floors above the area of attack did not seem to have any way at all of leaving the building.

 

3. The buildings did not appear to be structurally capable of dealing with the tremendous stresses involved.

 

4. They were so huge they presented an extremely easy target.

 

5. The old adage "The bigger they are, the harder they fall" has unfortunately been proven here - and the collapse of these two towers has lead to a great deal of collateral damage, and contributed even more to the loss of life.

 

I think this is an issue across all nations that build skyscrapers, not just the US. In the aftermath of this vast human tragedy, I hope that someone, somewhere, starts to tackle the issue of how to quickly and efficiently evacuate such immensse buildings. They are extremely vulnerable to air attacks, as demonstrated. Even if this terrorist action had not been taken - why was it never considered that an aircraft might in fact strike these (or any other) buildings?

 

It would be quite foolhardly simply to build another two towers in the place of those that have been destroyed without looking extremely carefully and in detail at the entire scope of human safety issues.

 

How do you evacuate a skyscraper when the middle floors are burning/destroyed? The only thing I can think of at the moment is having parachutes available on the higher floors, and perhaps an inflatable chute system on lower floors (such as that found in aircraft/some sea vessels).

 

If such an escape route had been available - the people who chose to throw themselves off those buildings may in fact have survived their falls.

 

I fully understand the reason for constructing such large buildings. First of all, there is the matter of space - within a confined area, you have to either build up, or down. They also serve as icons.

 

However, it has been proven in the past few days beyond a doubt that massive constructions can be death-traps.

 

Another alternative is to totally revise the policy on constructing such tall buildings. Perhaps in future, a limit should be placed on how high a skyscraper should be constructed - and very carefully planned evacuation procedures and resources made available to minimise the loss of human life.

 

Something must be done to ensure these huge buildings can be evacuated with the absolute minimum loss of life. It is up to those who construct these buildings to place human safety above all other priorities.

 

If that means future buildings must be made earthquake proof, aircraft proof - and anything else they may think of - then so be it.

 

We must all take action to ensure a human tragedy of this scale is not replicated in NY or elsewhere among urban populations.

[Guest digl]

Of course anything built there should be done with the better security in all apects, construction, evacuation, etc

 

parachutes?

there would be about 3 thousand people jumping per each side of the tower

I doubt any of them would get alive to the ground

[Swoosh]

Stormhammer, I agree with your statements, but should we apply the idea that any huge concentration of people should be avoided? Should we demolish all sports stadiums? Should we put limits on how many people can live in a given area? We would have to change some very important and solid things in our lives. You're right, the buildings do have needs...I think the most important needs is that of monuments to human advances and achievement. I believe it is in our nature to test the boundaries of what we see possible, and building tall buildings is one of those. Perhaps now engineers and scientists will try to develop ways to keep buildings from falling during such heat. Maybe new evacuation systems can be developed...all of these types of things happen when tragedy occurs (IE - Radar when England was being attacked in WWII). I know I'm going off subject somewhat, but I think you get the idea. We cannot change our ways of life because of terrorist attacks. That is the only purpose they have. However, we can improve and make the way we do things safer.

 

It's definitely something that is going to be heavily debated and people will be upset, but this is just my opinion.

 

Swoosh

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by Swoosh:

<STRONG>...should we apply the idea that any huge concentration of people should be avoided? Should we demolish all sports stadiums? Should we put limits on how many people can live in a given area? </STRONG>

 

Not at all. We simply need to be aware that such places are likely targets for fanatics - and develop the appropriate measures to prevent them from striking in such places. This may be in terms of revising security measures, improving intelligence networks, and developing the appropriate infrastructures for fast, efficient evacuation of such areas. Even the increased vigilance of the general public - their awareness of terrorist methods - can serve to prevent acts of terrorism being effective.

 

In the UK, for example, we have lived with bomb threats for many years. Now, whenever I see a bag lying unattended somewhere, alarm bells start ringing - because it could potentially be an explosive device.

 

Increasing awareness among the population often serves to save lives.

 

<STRONG>I think the most important needs is that of monuments to human advances and achievement. I believe it is in our nature to test the boundaries of what we see possible, and building tall buildings is one of those.</STRONG>

 

I agree. We should not allow the threat of terrorism to dominate our creative achievements, in whatever form they may take. But it is prudent to build in the appropriate security and safety measures to ensure lives will not be lost. In this way such things not only become a work of pride, but a symbol of solidarity and strength in the face of adversity.

 

<STRONG>We cannot change our ways of life because of terrorist attacks. That is the only purpose they have. However, we can improve and make the way we do things safer.</STRONG>

 

Even the smallest changes can often reap great rewards. And I agree that a focus on safety has a very large role to play in the future.

[Swoosh]

Ok, I agree with all of that wholeheartedly. Safety is the number one issue to be addressed, and there needs to be systems installed to atleast warn of this type of thing occuring and great efforts to prevent them. America should look to what Europeans have done with airport security. There are most certainly things that can be done, and after this, they will.

 

The only thing I hope is that when people are subject to the negative effects of increased security, they understand WHY. I can see it now, people complaining about how it was so much easier to get on a plane before all this happened...yet that is why this did happen.

 

Personally, I am shocked to see how so many people could care less about this. I've seen plenty of examples walking around school on Tuesday to see how little people care about it because it is not THEM that is being directly affected. Many people still don't get the point about how important this is to us as a country and as a world. Our lives will never be the same. This event most likely has caused the greatest amount of American bloodshed ever. This is worse than Pearl Harbor and JFK and MLK and anything we know! Meanwhile, people still act like everything is as normal. Years from now teachers will have stopped talking about Pearl Harbor in order to cover the day America was humiliated, scarred, and changed. I just don't see how some people can treat so many others without respect after a tragedy like this.

 

On another note, I go to school in southern California and we have already witnessed serveral incidents with Arabian-descent students. Yesterday a student went to McDonalds and approached the counter when the worker told her that they "don't serve their kind here." Attitudes like this are the true tragedy.

 

Swoosh

[Guest Kurgan]

I was thinking, maybe it sounds kind of tacky, and maybe it would be too expensive, but remember how France and America both had "Statues of Liberty" facing towards each other, as a sign of friendship?

 

Well maybe each country could have a similar building, as a way of showing solidarity. It wouldn't have to be the same size, but the same style, etc, so it was recognizable.

 

Wouldn't have to be even started until this thing is all over.

 

Just an idea...

 

As for people not caring, hey, yesterday I walked around in a daze, I had trouble sleeping. I felt sick, it was hard to enjoy anything I normally did. People seemed normal. The next day it came up in discussion of class (I didn't go to class the day it all hit, and I found out later at least my classes were cancelled), we all got up and it was loud and it kept going on. I had so much to say, the words just kept spilling out. There was a lot of emotion, but no violence.

 

I stayed up late the first night on the internet, and the tv in the background. It's horrible and I feel as if I've lost someone close to me, even though I didn't know any of these people who died. I selfishly give thanks that none of my friends or family (that I know of) was hurt.

 

Perhaps it's not that people don't care. Perhaps they're just pretending that things are normal. Perhaps the angry people screaming for blood and snubbing their fellow citizens of different race or ethnicity just don't know any other way to deal with their grief and shock.

 

Or maybe some simply don't care, not even when it happens in their own country, as long as it's not them. I dunno, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I know it breaks my heart...

 

Kurgan

 

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

[Moses]

What I would say related to this thread is that what I think we should do is let the next building/statue/memorial whatever which is going to go in place of the towers (if anything does) should be up to the people. The reason the terrorists attacked was because of democracy. We should show them that democracy is very much still a realistic thing. Having a vote on say, 3 ideas, (which can be pumped out by more qualified individuals. These can be within money and space barriers and all be feasible) would not only bring the people together, but would demonstrate the power of our nation. Your ideas?

 

And I know what you mean about the daze, Kurgan. I felt the same thing. Every time I think about it too, the sheer magnitude of events just makes me almost lose it again. I don't understand the people who are violent toward other people in our country just because they are of the same race as the individuals involved. It seemed to me like we had finally reached a point in our country (in the north at least) where physical appearances or social preferences didn't divide us. I think we head toward that more with every generation. It's just something like this which comes along and backtracks us to times before.

[Guest Celestial]

[Swoosh]

Kurgan, I know what you're saying about the people that don't look like they care may care indeed, but are just dealing with it in another way...but I think we all know people who don't care about this type of thing. Like, I know my best friend went out and partied on Tuesday night...he was telling me all about this party and all the girls, then I asked him if he thought partying last night was inappropriate. He answered with, "why, cause it's the middle of the week?" And of course I said "no, because the worst disaster to ever happened to our country occured." Then he got all defensive like he should be upset, but he really was not.

 

I mean, this was my best friend, someone who I generally like to associate myself with. I know there are many more people out there like him. It's just sad how so many of us are in grief (me included) and others think it's just more news that doesn't affect "me".

 

Swoosh

[Wilhuf]

I agree with Ice Man. I believe the US should build a new pair of towers, similar to the WTC (but not an exact copy of course). Something inspiring. Not only as a functional space for commerce and international trade, but as living proof that even when the faceless cowards took their best shot, they could not put us down. That their barbarism, in the long run, could not win.

 

Not a building to cover up the wound, but a building that shows we've somehow healed, and strengthened.

[ed_silvergun]

I like that picture of Krayt's. Those five towers have the added impact of looking like someone sticking their middle finger up at the terrorists.

[GonkH8er]

added effect? i thought that WAS the effect

[Guest Krayt Tion]

I agree with sentiments expressing the need to not let security run superfluously into the overall size, design, or artistic layout of any structure(s) we choose to build at the former WTC site.

 

Naturally we should build something that is structurally sound and safe. We should not do so in my opinion to the extent where we have to impose limits because of a possibly easier target profile to terrorists. As has been pointed out, these terrorists win when we drastically change our ways of living. I for one would not like to see changed building codes that limit the scope of what we can build because of it's vunerablity to terrorists. After all, I would like to believe that any technologically grand accomplishments anyone makes in buildings and architecture are a measure of overall human achievement, not merely the achievement of a certain group.

 

The idea of some sort of a democratic decision in the building process sounds appealing to me. That would truely add a more democratic element to the new structure(s) along with any other possible connotations of strength, healing, or remembrance.

 

edit: Yes those are the middle finger towers btw.

 

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: Krayt Tion ]

[Guest Krayt Tion]

I've just heard that owner of the 3.X billion dollar lease on the former WTC property wants to "build it again."

 

I wish I had more to clarify that statement at this time.

 

It failed to occur to me that someone in the end does indeed own the property, not the government per se. I still assume that this person would be looking to do what is best for the nation at this point given the nature of this tragedy. I wonder what his influences are in this matter.

 

Any rebuilding is still a ways off and I'm sure we will get further clarification on this eventually.

[Kumba]

http://www.luskinreport.com/luskin/200109/rebuild.jpg This one is better

[wardz]

I dont know about the Statue of Liberties facing each other, believe me the French aren't that friendly. Why the French anyway? What have they done to deserve it over any other nation?

 

They have already started backing out of military support along with Germany today.

 

wardz

[Guest Kurgan]

Well nobody's perfect, but at least in that case it was a sign of friendship. That doesn't mean we've always been their friends or always will be. But at one time, there was a genuine show of it, which I think is something we should always strive for with all nations.

 

The monuments are a symbol of liberty, equality, and fraternity. Like a lighthouse to freedom. It's an ideal, unfortunately not always a reality...

 

Kurgan