txa1265 Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Hi All: I have been a big JK fan since I discovered it when I had to travel once a month for 6 months about 1.5 years ago. I have played both JK and MotS a couple times, as well as DF, which I got last year for Father's Day. So ... I'm very much looking forward to JKII. I am not new to computer games - my first serious addition (outside of the arcades - star wars, sinistar and discs of tron were my faves) was Castle Wolfenstein on the Apple ][. Anyway ... I got Return to Castle Wolfenstein for Christmas, and have been enjoying it very much. The level of graphic detail and immersion into the environment is stunning. My wife is not a FPS fan, but she _really_ hates RtCW - it scares the crap out of her. I have enjoyed learning stealth to survive, better use of the various weapons, and better control of movement. I hope that the QIII engine shines as well in JKII as it does here (screenshots say 'yes'!) ... and the AI seems very good. I like the way the scopes work (3 diferent scoped weapons), and can't wait for that in JKII - although the saber action is what I really am looking forward to ... Also, I had been very much looking forward to ObiWan on the PC, and was therefore quite disappointed when it was killed, then revived for XBox ... I have no interest in a console in my house (too many PC's already). Reviews I have read have talked about great graphics, how cool it was using force powers (novel concept ...), but that the game was a bit lacking, had lousy save/lives concept and was too short. Maybe its' death on the PC wasn't so bad ... however, it talks about a different kind of Force Speed - in which rather than the JK/MotS implementation, which is something like 'sprinting' in RtCW, the rest of the world slows down while you move at full speed. That sounds more like the description from the JK novelization. I would love to see that implementation rather than an updated frenzy mode ... Any other thoughts on this stuff? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digl Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 welcome txa1265 That cant be implemented in MP, so I prefer something that can be used in MP They used that in OW (it was planned for the PC version too), because the OW project leader thaught JKs speed was uncontrolable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Sounds cool (haven't played obi on xbox) makes me think of the matrix effect in Max Payne. I would love to see something like that in JKII but Digl is right it wouldn't work in MP, it could work, with a lot of programming but it would probably slow down the server and use up all your bandwidth. It's just too hard to create two unique timelines, combine them into one environment and play that over the internet or LAN... Thinking about it makes my head spin... need more coffee... Oh and welcome btw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Welcome to the forums, txa1265. I hope you enjoy your stay here...we're a downright friendly bunch. *hands over a chocolate Jedi Medallion* There you go. They're tasty. As for a bulltet-time/SlowMo effect for Force speed, I don't think it would be appropriate, even if it were possible. This issue has been discussed several times, but suffice it to say (as the others above) that it would be very difficult if not impossible to implement for MP. I have no problem with the Force Speed system we saw in JK/MotS, which actually requires sharper reflexes to use effectively. BTW, I'm also playing the SP portion of RTCW, and I think it's great. The AI is very good. I'm currently working my way through the stealthy mission (after defeat of Boss1). I hope they consider doing another game in this series to make it a trilogy. I don't think we need to worry about JKII, because Raven have made a lot of modifications to the engine, and they always deliver good, solid games. My only concerns are around how far removed the gameplay will be from JK, and whether any of the changes made actually improve the experience...or bring the gameplay more in line with other FPS games - which would be a bad move, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartolo_JCS Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Welcome to the forums man, I too got my hands on RTCW and I have to say I like it very much indeed. I too look forward to the modified q3 engine that they're using for JK2. MP TEST! MP TEST! P-U-B-L-I-C *force persuasion* You will release a MP test for JK2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Stormhammer, what kind of gameplay issues are you thinking about and in what way can they be different? Gamespeed? Movement? Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Well, Roger, we've recently discussed the lack of an automap feature...and the fact there is no mention whatever of Force Seeing. A lot of MP players used these in combination to scope out enemies, allies and other stuff...so their absence will lead to a radical change in the way MP is played (for some players). The Morality tree that dictated light or dark side is absent...ie, you cannot choose to become a light or dark side Jedi, as you could in JK during the SP game. This time it falls more in line with MotS, and allows you to pick whatever force powers you like (up to a limit). This is not necessarily a bad thing...but it does mean Kyle is practically neutral, and there could be less incentive to protect the civilians in the game, which was an important aspect of JK for me (playing light side). It is also highly doubtful there will be two different endings this time around. Rumours of flechette guns and rocket launchers (if substantiated) also seems to be drawing JKII more in line with other FPS games...and I don't think that is a good idea. It may attract more gamers from other communities, but the game is at risk of losing a few key things that defined it and set it apart. JK had a different gameplay style to other FPS's on it's release, with it's mixture of lightsaber, force powers, gunplay and morality. The potential omission of force powers alone could make a dramatic difference to how JKII has to be played. I'm all for innovation, and making changes that assist the gameplay, but if some features are being left out in this sequel that helped to define JK and set it apart from the rest of the crowd, there is a risk that JKII may not achieve the same success and longevity as it's predecessor. I hope my concerns are unfounded, and Raven manages to build on the success of JK with some cool innovations. I know they will deliver a solid game, no matter how it turns out...but it may have a markedly different flavour to JK. As always, we shall have to wait for a demo to see exactly how the game will play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest X-Vector Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Originally posted by txa1265 My wife is not a FPS fan, but she _really_ hates RtCW Give your wife a compliment on my behalf - she seems to have excellent taste in gaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 I liked the option of choosing for either light or dark side too. But it wasn't the main reason I liked the game. From Dark Forces on I liked the puzzles, great level design and atmosphere. Bottom line is LucasArts wants to sell games so they look at what sells. Your opinion and the opinions of the whole community for that matter play a big role also, but LucasArts wants the large buying public (realize that the community is only a small part of that buying public) to buy their product. I don't think you'll have too many things to worry about and I'm pretty sure you won't be disappointed. The multiplayer part is what will make or break this game's longevity and with an engine like the Quake III engine and a team like Raven I have a lot of confidence in the success of JKII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 stormhammer, as i understood, in sp, you gain all force powers at once after you advance beyond uniniated(force level 0). Those powers will simply advance in strength two more times after you recieve them. Its closer to mots than JK, as far as the Force is concerned, but its still rather different from mots. mp is a difff story tho, according to Jedi Knotes #3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted January 9, 2002 Author Share Posted January 9, 2002 Thanks to all for the kindness ... and thanks Stormhammer for the medallion (yummy ... but perhaps I shouldn't have after all of the holiday goodies ...) I am such a SP person ... I hadn't thought about MP! It (Force speed, not Force Time-slow) makes sense in that regard. As far as the Force usage goes, I remember reading that you would be *required* to use the force and lightsaber to complete some parts of the game - I hope this is true. I really love Dark Forces, but for very different reasons than I loved JK/MotS. That is one thing I like with RtCW - you *can't* blast your way through every level. Period. You must use stealth, and silent weapons. As it is, I used the lightsaber almost exclusively in MotS (sometimes to my peril, but you have to learn somehow;-) and plan to do the same in JO. RtCW has raised my appreciation for a scope based weapon more than the one in MotS (although I liked that in that one level where you *had* to use it). For the other weapons, that doesn't matter much to me - so long as the saber play is engrossing and the force powers interact well. My personal mission is to whoop the game while becoming a light jedi lord ... Which brings me back to ObiWan. Read two more reviews this morning. Same mediocre ratings - specific to levels and graphics. The gameplay was again highlighted as the only saving grace. As one said, 'you don't feel like you're controlling ObiWan ... you ARE ObiWan!'. I really hope I feel that way in JKII - I certainly do in RtCW. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 Mike, did you play the Medal of Honor, Allied Assault single player demo? That's RtCW on steroids. The graphics might not be as nice but the gameplay, enemy and friendly AI, mission goals etc. are stunning! It is actually hard to accomplish the demo mission, something I couldn't say of RtCW. And in this demo, using the environment is a lot more realistic. Hiding behind walls, inside houses, etc. You can see german soldiers shooting around the corner, just holding their rifle around the corner hiding themselves behind a wall. You got a team of friendlies and while they're not really playing with you, it adds to the realism. It is also created with the Quake III engine. They also have a multiplayer demo out. You can download them here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted January 9, 2002 Author Share Posted January 9, 2002 No ... WWII things are not really my thing - much more the 'fantasy / sci-fi' stuff. However, as I've loved Castle Wolfenstein since playing it *way too much* on an Apple ][+ in college years ago ... how could I avoid RtCW ... Also, I had gotten Soldier of Fortune as a 'freebie' with the GeForce2 card that came when I ordered a new desktop system at work. Not so much my thing, but I thought the graphics were nice. Today I was looking at SoF2 - also a Raven game - images and 'movie', and the graphics look absolutely fantastic ... better than RtCW, IMO. ... all of this bodes ever so nicely for JKII ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 Ha, yeah I bought my first PC to play Doom when it came out, after playing Wolf on my friends computer day and night... hmmm... college... Oh well... back to work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrUeFoRcE Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 i agree its not a bad idea for bullet time in multiplayer, i have thought of a few ways it could work effectively in mp without lagging a server....its not impossible but it would be very hard to do, therefore i doubt bullet time will show its face around mp for a while, its even moer unlikely for it to be in jk2 i think because the jk series of games have always been fast paced, thats one of the best parts of it, games in the past have either been normal speed or slowed down (bullet time) but jk has been one of the fastest paced games out there and with the release of jk2 i hope it keeps its speedy rep. and as for the auto mapping force seing combo being useless, i would hope that raven still puts force seing in the game as sort of a see through walls feature....for example u turn on force seing get the green shaded screen or whatever and if u look at a wall that someone is hiding behind u will be able to see a glowing outline of that player or something of the sort..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay-Mar Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 Well well........... It would seem that the majority of ppl posting on theses forums are of a certain age Force Speed...i remeber the disscussion well Storm I do tend to agree with Storm that Force Speed just needed lightning reflexes and a keen eye to use, (hope i'm not getting too old for that). As far as RtCW goes, I'm enjoying the MP side much more than the SP, if I wanted to wonder around killing the un-dead with an inadequate weapon, I'd prolly rush out and buy Evil Dead 2 or sommit. anyways.......I'm rambling again.............. Welcome to the Forums txa1265 (Mike) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 Do u know the the man guy to do with obi-wan thought it was hard to control force speed, that's why obi has a stupid kind of type of force speed. Lol what a newbie to jk he msut have been. anyway i think it would be hard to implement and i think jk should keep it fast,actiong packed speed. it was great fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartolo_JCS Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 I'd prefer RTCW over Medal of Honor multiplayer any day. As for the singleplayer I can't speak for the game's not out yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmed Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 Obi-Wan's slow-time effect is pretty useless because you don't actually move faster. It is only slow motion. You swing the same speed, walk the same speed and turn the same speed. In addiction the effect only last a couple seconds so it is really only useful if you want to pull off a cool kill in slowmo or something. Obi-Wan is definitely a mediocre game... but the combat system works quite well, particularly the blocking, and the force powers are well done and fairly useful so the game is at least worth a rent if you're a Star Wars fan. If you think RTCW is good I'm sure you'll love JK II. RTCW is a purely average FPS and JK II looks awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted January 11, 2002 Author Share Posted January 11, 2002 I like RtCW for a few reasons. First, as I mentioned, I played Castle Wolfenstein on an Apple ][+ more years ago (apparently) than many in this group were born ... also, it is just fun, and the super soldiers are not that far from my old friends the Dark Troopers ... I also know I'll love JK2 ... I actually played all the way through EP1:TPM because of saber play ... That said, my expectations are that I will really, objectively love JK2. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 I remember the Apple ][ But then, I remember the BBC Micro, and the launch of the first ever Mac...the first time I used a mouse. Ah, the memories I've pre-ordered my copy of JKII...so I'm keeping the faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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