missile launcher speeds

[DeathBoLT]

The q3 rocket launcher and the EF photon burst speeds(as in how quickly it can travel a distance from when its fired until it hits it target) have appropriate speeds for the pace of the game, are too slow for a force speed/jump type pace.

 

the way some people can get really erratic with movement, etc. and anything less than conc speed will be a difficult weapon to assail ff players with.

[Wilhuf]

1. will there be a missile launcher in Jedi Outcast?

2. if so, what is the nature of the splash damage (radius, damage, decay)?

3. if so, what is the speed of the projectile?

3. how fast will the force speed be? And will it be continuous?

4. how high will we be able to force jump?

5. how will outcast's client server architecture affect collision in practice?

 

We dont know these variables. Difficult to really conclude anything about the need for concussion-like projectile speed. Yet.

 

But, yes I agree, if you had a q3 rocket launcher in a full force jedi knight 1 game, yes, the rocket launcher would probably be ineffective.

[DeathBoLT]

1. will there be a missile launcher in Jedi Outcast?

Merr-sonn missile launcher; see either IGN or gamespot previews ( cant remember if only one or both mentioned it )

 

2. if so, what is the nature of the splash damage (radius, damage, decay)?

well, assuming the force speedless aspect of the game is about quake 3-paced(which is a reasonable assumption), radius, damage, etc. are going to be relatively the same as other guns of the same function in other games.

 

3. if so, what is the speed of the projectile?

hopefully as fast as it needs to be to be useful at force speeds

 

3. how fast will the force speed be? And will it be continuous?

well im assuming that it will match that of jedi knight's ff; only raven can know at this point, but this post was more or less directed to raven in the event that my assumptions are correct

 

4. how high will we be able to force jump?

see my answer to #3

 

5. how will outcast's client server architecture affect collision in practice?

[Wilhuf]

As long as the lightsaber can neutralize a direct incoming missile, a high speed projectile would keep the action going.

 

And as I've said in a previous thread, of course the saber wouldn't negate missile splash damage, so a saber block would be the exception, rather than the rule.

 

BTW I doubt the force speed pace will be as fast, or as continuously available as in Jedi Knight. Raven haven't spoken on this yet.

[DeathBoLT]

i personally hope it will be as fast and continous..

[Lord_FinnSon]

I have said it twice and I will say it again: no Road Runners! Please...

[DeathBoLT]

take away continous speed, and you will still get people who nail speed just before engaging you, and cut across you with their lightsaber quickly ending the match.

 

continous speed or not, people will tear you apart with force speed if you don't use fspeed to evade.

[+Nimbus+]

err hey let me remind you this is star wars, rocket launchers? I doubt it. Think of Star Wars weaponry and the story of the game, because the weapons from single-player are your multiplayer weapons. Why in the universe would he need a rocket launcher? Not to mention which storm trooper would have one to give Kyle?

[WD_ToRMeNt]

Deathbolt is correct. If you run into a player with fspeed and skill you will die unless you are a better player. It's as simple as that.

 

I know many of you want to stay in newbieville, walking around BGJ swinging your lightsaber and imagining yourself in the movies. Well guess what, you are in reality playing a GAME. Those who realize this will win and either be looked upon with amazement or called cheater by those who haven't figured it out yet.

 

Every time I get into a game that isn't with WD/dp/Syk/other good people they either kick me out or all of a sudden become my best friend. Ive been back on the zone for 2 days now and I've already been kicked out of serveral games. If I ever meet any of you in a game, don't expect me to hold back just because you want to reinact dual of the fates.

 

But yes back to the point, the q3 rl does travel to slow to be that affective againt a target moving at speeds compareable to speed 4 and I hope raven realizes this.

 

Now I don't care how YOU play the game, but don't tell me to to play either and don't take away the things that made JK the best FPS ever. All I ask is that you don't call me a cheater or kick me when I put you into the negs.

 

I have the feeling that just as in JK, there will be a huge skill gap between the true gamers and the regualar SWs fans.

 

PS A saber deflecting a rocket does sound pretty lame.

[pinkpanther718]

I'll probably get flamed for everything I say but here goes anyway. While I love JKI, I think the way the force system was implamented in some ways made gameplay very agrivating at times. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying this isnt a game, but I just think it gets lame when the whole skill factor is based on how well you can control a human rocket on force speed, and how quick you are with the mouse. Lots of times in JKI it ends up being a bunch of guys, running around like maniacs with force powers and just mashing buttons and/or being quick with the mouse. When I invision JKII, I really invision more skill, especially in the light saber combat area incorperated. Thats what makes the deusl in the movies so interesting, the force just makes it more interesting. I just want a nice complex saber system, that will lure more people into that type of combat. Call me a "SW Fan" and now a "real gammer", i've been playing computer games all my life. BUt what is it that makes a Star Wars game different than Quake opr Unreal? People like to relive the movie like moments in the game, and I think and hope that Raven has found a way to make that happen while still keeping the game entertaining to SW and nonSW fans alike. So with all that said, let me say this about the speed. I think it was too overused in JKI, in that it lasted too long and/or made you too fast. I think the game should be about using your force powers to compliment your other abilities, not to solely rely on them for survival, therefore I think the speed should be different in one way or another. I guess its all a matter of personal prefference, and thank god they are allowing so much customization in the multiplayer aspect.

[StarScrap]

Originally posted by +Nimbus+

err hey let me remind you this is star wars, rocket launchers? I doubt it. Think of Star Wars weaponry and the story of the game, because the weapons from single-player are your multiplayer weapons. Why in the universe would he need a rocket launcher? Not to mention which storm trooper would have one to give Kyle?

 

I present to you, the Rail Detonator.

 

As for differing play styles ToRMeNt, I see what you're saying, but you contradict yourself.

 

If I ever meet any of you in a game, don't expect me to hold back just because you want to reinact dual of the fates.

 

Now I don't care how YOU play the game

 

The first says that you'll beat up on people saber dueling (WHY?), the second says you won't.

 

 

As for force powers pinkpanther, you seem to be forgetting that, while you are against high speed, to reinact the movie ls battles, high speed is necesary, and your ls duels in JKII will probably be as much button mashing as ff guns in JK. There will be some who just hit buttons, and there will be others who actually think about what they're doing. Whatever way it ends up, however, i really hope it is playable by the newbie, because, if it is not, then the gaming community will never grow in size.

[Emon]

Actually, that's a GOOD spead. Raven isn't designing this game so that you can have a rocket launcher that moves so fast, like the conc, where everyone runs around with force speed ramming into walls and blasting themsevles because they are going to fast to be seen.

 

Force speed probably won't let you go 60 MPH like you can in JK. In JK, Kyle's run speed is already like 15 MPH, with Fspeed it's about 50-60. Judging from the JK2 videos, Kyle can run at a normal speed. It takes a long time to circle around that airshaft thing in the demo level.

 

I'm glad to see it being slower paced. I always hate going into JK games where everyone is going 60 MPH with destruction and nothing but concs, and I constantly hear that damn annoying force speed sound that sounds like a tamberine.

[Wilhuf]

continous speed or not, people will tear you apart with force speed if you don't use fspeed to evade.

This scenario makes no sense.

 

If there were no continuous speed in Outcast, the automatic resort to force speed wouldn't even be an option. Without continuous force speed, you would have to think before just reflexively using force speed. High speed duels wouldn't be so commonplace.

 

If you run into a player with fspeed and skill you will die unless you are a better player. It's as simple as that.

Yes, it seems a safe conclusion that a better player would defeat an inferior player...

 

don't take away the things that made JK the best FPS ever

Agreed. And drop the flaws and imperfections, such as a weak lightsaber.

[Lord_FinnSon]

Don't get me wrong. Force speed is now integral part of Force powers, so I want to definitely see and use it, BUT Raven should make it something like a quick burst that uses all your mana in a second or two. That would be enough time for you to get away from too hard enemy, and we wouldn't see those "maniacs" running around ridiculously(except if they are hackers) anymore. Finally, apply motion blur to that runner which would make him seem even faster and you get something like we saw in TPM.

[WD_ToRMeNt]

No, I wasn't contradicting myself. I said that I didn't care how YOU played, just don't get mad when I play my way and slaughter you.

 

 

Pinkpanther718, if you think that high skill playing is just smashing buttons then you've never "gotten it."

 

"Continuous speed" is just reactivating speed the exact moment it runs out so that it appears continuous. If you get very good you get so that you hit the speed key w/o even thinking about it and keep speed on indefinately.

[WD_ToRMeNt]

Wilhuf, you seem like a good guy but come on... That quote about a person with speed not being able to trample some one w/o it not making sense... Seriously, I'd love to get into a game with some of the people here and show them what I mean.

 

Just ask any WD to play a FF game and you'll see exactly why you need speed to even stay alive more then 5 seconds and I'm not even exagerating.

[DeathBoLT]

If there were no continuous speed in Outcast, the automatic resort to force speed wouldn't even be an option.

 

As soon as they see you, they'll nail force speed, and move around with enough speed that they'll be able to evade anything you throw at them, and make a quick kill either with explosive weapons or a lightsaber attack(remember, connecting with the lightsaber should be easy with pixel-pixel collision detection and the q3 netcode)before you're able to respond.

 

Example: You run out into the open at the same time as another. You hit force speed, while the other person doesn't. You either make a quick pass at them just closing long enough for your lightsaber to gut them and then pulling out(think calvary attack), or you suddenly close the distance, launching a fleury of weapon fire dancing and circling around them in such a manner that they can't hit you due to your speed, but you can hit their slow moving body with ease.

 

Without continuous force speed, you would have to think before just reflexively using force speed. High speed duels wouldn't be so commonplace.

 

Yes, you don't reflexively hit it, you hold off until you spot your opponent, and swiftly attack in the scenario presented above and make a kill again and again and again.

[Wilhuf]

Thanks, I try to be a good guy, Torment.

 

And I agree with you that in a full force environment, in Jedi Knight, where there is really no restriction on how long force speed is active, you must use force speed to survive.

 

But, for Outcast, it is possible that we might not have continuous force speed. There might be a cool down period. We just don't know yet.

 

If there is a cooldown, then it won't always be necessary to use force speed in self defense. With cooldown, your attacker could run out of speed, even during an attack.

 

If there is no cooldown in Outcast, and we can run with force speed as long as we want, then I think the old pilot's addage will still hold true : 'speed is life.'

[WD_ToRMeNt]

Cool down? Where was that ever mentioned?

 

If such a thing existed then it could prolly be reduced to 0 with a little server side scripting.

[Wilhuf]

they'll nail force speed, and move around with enough speed that they'll be able to evade anything you throw at them, and make a quick kill either with explosive weapons or a lightsaber attack

 

Yes this is a good example of how to use speed as an offensive power, DeathBoLT.

 

Now, here is an alternate. It's the same setup, both enemies approach, one activates speed, the other does not.

 

The speeding jedi opens up with an attack. The 'non-speeding' jedi cannot dodge. However, the non-speeding jedi uses lightning or grip which arcs and snaps to hit the speeding target. Grip may even slow down the speeder. The speeding jedi cannot use grip to return force fire because he has used his force reserve for speed. Both opponents take damage.

 

Because of the force cost, speed may not have so great an advantage as it did in Jedi Knight. Perhaps.

 

And, as you've said, with per-polygon hit detection, and q3 netcode, a force speed Jedi may not be as difficult to hit as it was in JK. This should be true for force attacks, as well as lightsabers.

 

We will see what Raven has in store for us. Definitely looking forward to it.

[Wilhuf]

Cooldown was never officially mentioned. It may not exist at all. It's just an idea. For all we know force speed may be exactly as it is in the original Jedi Knight.

 

Yes, a server side mod could easily change many of those parameters. Speed, cooldown, rocket splash, projectile speed, force consumption, etc. Should be pretty easy to tweak the game to your exact liking.

[NeJJa]

what i think is that alot of people who were good at jedi knight want (hope,pray,plead,beg,sacrafice body parts) JK2 to be as close to a graphical update of JK1 as possible. I think we are going to get in there, find there are some similarities but not that many, and get our asses kicked.

i will be surprised if any powerful JK1 clan is among the leaders in JK2.

[DeathBoLT]

i'd place my money on clans like TF and IRN as they've proven the capability to move onto other games and maintain a position as one of the strongest clans in those games.

 

as far as force speed goes, i personally hope force speed's presence is more in use than it would be if it was one of those make-it-count-because-its-not-reappearing-for-several-minutes-powerups. regardless of how it turns out, ill still play JKII obsessively for several months to a few years hehe

[Yodimus Prime]

Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt

 

Cool down? Where was that ever mentioned?

 

The lightsaber throw in MotS has this type of affect. You had to wait a few seconds to do it over.