DeathBoLT Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 - The presence of centripetal force. - Force speed + Force Jump combos. The impact of force speed/jump on JK FF's style of movement was tremendous. You could go anywhere on the map that you wanted to in seconds. beyond force powers and lightsabers, this is all that comes to mind right off the top of my head [edit]that should be in JK2..[/edit] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Multiple paths in the storyline (Dark Side, Light Side), the choice of powers as you went along, all seemed pretty unique to JK in the FPS genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krandell Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 Just the game being good is a unique aspect to a game these days. Most games are very poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted February 14, 2002 Share Posted February 14, 2002 The sprawling levels ... after all of these replays it still took me as long to do Level 1 (new republic base on Altyr 5) as it did the entire FIRST MISSION (several so-called levels) on MoH:AA... sometimes you felt you would never get to the end ... but that's a good thing Now I look at a game and know I'll be through it before I'm totally involved - I'm in the middle of mission 4 (of 6) after ~3 hours of play on MoH:AA ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 15, 2002 Author Share Posted February 15, 2002 any other thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD_ToRMeNt Posted February 15, 2002 Share Posted February 15, 2002 I don't give damn about the SP, but JK's MP is absolutely unique. Most people don't understand the force dynamics and the extremes they can be taken to. Playing JK FF is like playing chess at mach 2. I'm serious. To be good in JK FF you need everything to be good in any other FPS and much more. 1) Aim 2) Ability to think ahead of your opponent. Force speed (plus lag) is to fast to aim at where they are, you must be thinking ahead of your opponent to dodge his conc/desctructs and hit him with yours. You must out think him. 3) extreme multi tasking 4) Ability to watch 2d map and 3d screen at the same time 5) Keep a steady count in your mind and time one or more power ups. 6) Lightning fast reflexes 7) Knowleadge of the lag/netcode 8) better then avarage hand-eye coordination to control speed/jump combos This is what made JK to complex and extreme. Most JKers can't handle the above (and definately not all at the same time) and just stick to NF sabs. Today I got into a game of BGJ FF FFA... I had 53 kills, and the guy who was in 2nd had only 2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 16, 2002 Author Share Posted February 16, 2002 some force powers are simply different styles of guns.. i prefer to focus more on overall gameplay(ie presence of force powers and them actually being very useful in game, the presence of lightsabers that are useful in game) and movement rather than worry over if destruction(sort of a gun) is present or not or if grip has the same function or not, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 16, 2002 Author Share Posted February 16, 2002 this post is perfectly relevant to jk2.. im not posting it for nostaliga's sake, i want raven to know what was important in jk and probably should be included in jk2. please move it back :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD_ToRMeNt Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPMaximilian Posted February 16, 2002 Share Posted February 16, 2002 Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt Today I got into a game of BGJ FF FFA... I had 53 kills, and the guy who was in 2nd had only 2... Sounds like you're deadly...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD_ToRMeNt Posted February 17, 2002 Share Posted February 17, 2002 Hehe VERY. One of my close friends calls me "a full force monter" hehe. This is a differant game but... http://www.geocities.com/WD_Savage/two.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 As this thread is now more JK2 related (thanks DeathBolT), it is being taken back to the Valley... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaberPro Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 A nice JK aspect: Idle Mode! Although in JK, if you have ur lightsaber activate and left it there for idle, it looks like you are cutting your self on the neck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raze Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 Ew Deathbolt, in spite your self-proclaimed eliteness, 'centripetal force' (how you call it wrongly) is nothing but a bug in JK. Just about no other game has that centripetal force factor, where u accelerate when you turn. Because it's a flaw unique to JK. This is the the principle behind the saber style most folks refer to as mouse warp The warping is due to another flaw in JK, namely its netcode. You can see it is not a feature by lowering the tick rate gradually (by editing the registry, because the ingame settings only allow for 100-250 ticks). When you get at about 50, the effect you described disappears because more packets are sent, allowing for better position transfer. centripetal force=force exerted tangenital to an object pivoting in a circular motion around a fixed point. Centripetal force is exerted to the middle of the circle the object is describing. Centrifugal force is an unreal force which is exerted in the other direction. When you turned fast it exuded force tangent to the circle u described and u accelerated. Though one might get the expression that an object rotating in a circular way accelerates when you cut the rope, it surely does not. As soon as the object is no longer bound to the center of the circle, no forces are exerted on it. In an ideal environment, the object would just fly on and on forever (in reality this is not the cause due the air decellerating the object). Acceleration comes from force and force alone, so does deceleration. I'd like to see it represented in the movement of JK2 just cause it is so unique and gives folks supreme flexibility in their movement speed. Translation: I have learnt to master a bug which appears in JK and I want to see it added to JK II so I can still be elite above the others who didn't master the bug. Sincerely, -Ra*waiting for the l33t flame*ze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 I coined the term in relation to this topic, so ill explain it a tad. Centripetal means center seeking. Isaak Newton came up with it to describe the phenomenon of an object rotating around a central pivot point. Take yer shirt of and swing it around yer head like a helicopter. Got me? good. Centripetal force is indeed the center seeking force involved in this situation. I phrased it wrong and thats db has been quoting me. So thats my fault. What I was attempting to describe was the velocity v that is derived from the centripetal force acted on you as a player, which is what you see and experience relative to someone who is running in a straight line next to you. When you turn you accelerate in by traveling in a uniform circular motion. The acceleration is centripetal. When you release your hold on the ground, you fly off at a vtangent dictated by the equation a=v^2/r . Adding mass in there gives u the force. You can see the indirect relationship between the size of the circle you transcribe and the acceleration you experience. Turning tighter yeilds more accleration. In JK you quit transcribing the circular motion when you let go of the ground. You fly off along a vector v which is tangent to the circle you were running along. Is it a centripetal force? No not really. Centripetal force/accleration is definitely a component of how its defined however. And vice versa. When I was first trying to figure out how it worked I called it a tangental force, however thats not accurate because by adjusting the radius of yer circle or by simply turning the mouse faster around that circle you acclerate your mass to a greater extent on that tangental velocity vector. It's kind of like running at high speed extremes with low speed magnitudes. The rules shouldn't apply but they do for whatever reason. Its somthing that made JK unique, I hesitate to call it a 'bug'. We've got no idea if it is or not, its just a part of the movement system that sets it apart and makes it fun. As for the tick rate idea. There are several distinct causes of warping. One of them is packet loss and packet rates. It causes a lot of problems that aren't similar to the other warping methods. They don't even look quite the same. I've experimented with tick rate more than a few times and kept a record of how people going thru various NAPS looked to me from a subjective pov. It is considerably different than mouse jerk. Mouse jerk makes direct use of the centripetal to tangental translation of yer mouse movements to yer player movements. [wasn't it just easier for me to say centripetal even if it was wrong? it at least got folks thinking along the right lines] And it outruns the animation cycle of JK. Its not a netcode thing, anybody can warp like mad, on any connection. Basically JK has frame by frame physics instead of time based for plotting certain things. The animation is one of them. You only have so many key frames of anim to burn thru, when you run really fast you generate more points than were accounted for by the anim and thus you get skippage. When the points match up precisely with the key frames it looks smooth. When you speed up beyond what was anticipated [prolly means it was a bug] you get an effect that is a lot like stretching an elastic band. You begin to see the individual fibers in what looked whole before. The frame by frame display for anims instead of time based is somthing a lot of fps's fall pray to. Q3 has that problem, you exist for every frame you generate and if yer frames are too far apart you skip around. If you want to test this theory, take a warping gheyborist, and ask him to run in a straight line with no strafe for you. He should look smooth as butter under good conditions. Lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 also, in defense of the bug. one word: skiing! Tribes2 had that built in even tho it was an admitted bug in the first game. Some bugs offer enough that its worth keeping them. Anders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raze Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 Isaak Newton came up with it to describe the phenomenon of an object rotating around a central pivot point. All of our motion physics are based on Newton. What I was attempting to describe was the velocity v that is derived from the centripetal force acted on you as a player, The centripetal force doesn't give you any velocity. The centripetal force is the force which keeps you on the circle. This force might be caused by anything. It might be caused by a string, or by the gravity (moon around earth) or by a magnetic force. Your velocity however is caused by the force which accelerated you. Your acceleration is caused by a force accelerating you (if you swing your shirt faster, you are causing the force accelerating it). which is what you see and experience relative to someone who is running in a straight line next to you. I don't get what you are trying to express.. relative to a linear movement? How does this get into that, a linear movement is a linear movement. When you turn you accelerate in by traveling in a uniform circular motion. No, turning does not give you acceleration. It can't possibly. You experience a strong unreal force (centrifugal force) which makes you feel being accelerated maybe, but you do not get accelerated. When you release your hold on the ground, you fly off at a vtangent If you run in a circle, your feet are exerting the centripetal force, if you release your hold on the ground, there no longer is centripetal force, therefore you keep your current movement which is the tangent to the circle you were describing in the point you currently are. You can see the indirect relationship between the size of the circle you transcribe and the acceleration you experience. Turning tighter yeilds more accleration. Again, you do not accelerate. Your angle-velocity increases, your frequency increases but that's about it. In JK you quit transcribing the circular motion when you let go of the ground. You fly off along a vector v which is tangent to the circle you were running along. The way it should be. If you want to test this theory, take a warping gheyborist, and ask him to run in a straight line with no strafe for you. He should look smooth as butter under good conditions. Of course, why wouldn't he. Sincerely, Raze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makkoan Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 Actually centripetal force is just Newton's first law in action Newton's First Law states that an object will remain at rest or in uniform motion in a straight line unless acted upon by an external force. It may be seen as a statement about inertia, that objects will remain in their state of motion unless a force acts to change the motion. Lets take an example of a ball on a string swinging around. The string must provide the necessary centripetal force to move the ball in a circle. If the string breaks, the ball will move off in a straight line. The straight line motion in the absence of the constraining force is an example of Newton's first law. Go here http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/imgmec/strmas.gif for a picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raze Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 Just what I said! Sincerely, Raze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toms Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 the level puzzles!!!!!!! DF, JK and IJatIM had some of the best SP levels ever.... they had puzzles that involved manipulation of the level environment and they also had puzzles that you had to logically think out, but you could also experiment with them a bit to figure out how they worked and what you had to do..... "puzzles" in most other FPS games still seem to be cunningly concealed versions of the "find the key", "flip the switch" gameplay of yore.... good examples would be the imperial vault in DF and the cargo container bit in JK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 23, 2002 Author Share Posted February 23, 2002 Translation: I have learnt to master a bug which appears in JK and I want to see it added to JK II so I can still be elite above the others who didn't master the bug. Raze, would you accuse me of the same if i stated i also wanted to the lightsaber to be present? ok, the effect of accelerating when turning isn't as important, but you get the idea. i consider this aspect, bug or not, to be a very significant part of JK gameplay that gives a player alot more control over movement speed, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tre Lightshadow Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 By going in a circle, you are constantly accelerating. Acceleration ocurrs when velocity or direction changes, you may not be gaining any speed, but you are still accelerating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Let me clear up a little of the physics here. Centrifigul force doesn't really exist. It's just a combination of cintripital force and momentum. That's what Makkoan was kind of talking about. Centripital force is an actual force. In Makkoan's example the force is the inward pull that string places on the ball. In the case of the earth and the moon it's the gravitationa pull between teh masses. It does impart an acceleration which can be seen in the changing direction of the moving object (curves instead of going in a straight line). Remember Newton's second law, that F=ma : to have acceleration you have to have a force. Now to the actual JK/JO stuff. From SaberPro in JK, if you have ur lightsaber activate and left it there for idle, it looks like you are cutting your self on the neck As I always liked to say, a real Jedi shaves with a lightsaber! From Kurgan Multiple paths in the storyline (Dark Side, Light Side), the choice of powers as you went along, all seemed pretty unique to JK in the FPS genre. I doubt if there will really be a light side/dark side split. I will admint it's possible given Kyle's past brushes with the dark side (see Mysteries of the Sith). I would love to see a diverging storyline of one sort or another though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raze Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 Orginally by Raze Centrifugal force is an unreal force which is exerted in the other direction. Orginally by Raze This force might be caused by anything. It might be caused by a string, or by the gravity (moon around earth) or by a magnetic force Orginally by Raze Your acceleration is caused by a force accelerating you Is anybody acutally reading my stuff? I have to admit that change of direction is an acceleration but in this very context I was talking about acceleration as an increase of velocity. Sincerely, Raze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted February 23, 2002 Share Posted February 23, 2002 But it IS changing velocity. Remember that velocity is a vector, not just speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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