Observation of the JK2 zone rooms

[WD_ToRMeNt]

First off, there are only standard rooms and NO demo rooms. This kinda makes me doubt the possibility of a demo before the full release.

 

I also find is strange that they only have 4 rooms with 50 games each. One would think that they'd expect JK2 to be WAY bigger then that. Maybe that means the zone realizes that it simply can not compare to GS and the in-game server browser.

 

On the other hand though, I'm sure LEC will eventually want to release a demo. Also we arn't even supposed to know those rooms exist. I'm thinking that they are just a test and they'll be updating it and adding more standard rooms and a couple demo rooms.

 

Only time will tell.

[Xiao Long]

I can't quote a source, but I seem to recall an interview sometime earlier this month (or late last month) with one of Raven's programmers working on JKII, in which he said that he wasn't aware of any plans to release a demo before the full release, and that he hoped they wouldn't, since it would take away from the development of the full game. I don't doubt that there will be a gameplay demo released at some point, but my bet is that it will be shortly after the full game is released. Still, it would be a pleasant surprise to receive a demo say a week before the full release.

[GonkH8er]

theres 4 main lobbys, and a tournament one. 50 rooms in each. 16 per room.

 

 

i was told by someone the limit for people in the lobby is 200-250 though.... which is strange.

 

 

 

who cares though. therell be dediacted servers hosted by 100's of sites. relax

[TUS_Tomcat]

If a Linux dedi server is released it'll be great

 

 

They better! heh

 

Also i think the zone Rogue Spear / Urban Operations rooms (other game i play)

 

have 75 rooms

 

so youd think 75x16 players = 1200

 

BUT, i think the lobbies are maxed at 300 or something. Think it used to be 250 but now its 300

[Darth Lunatic]

Who in their right mind would use the zone anyway? The in-game server browser will be a quicker and easier way to join games!

 

Ditch the zone.

[Agen]

yes but you'll feel dead as you do wheb all you see s servers and no people. On zone you can chat and flame and tell people how bad it is.

[RedHerring]

JKII will have an In-game browser? Damn, yo, this is definitely going for GotY

[Darth Lunatic]

So you'll go on the zone just so you can say how bad it is??

 

I'd prefer to get straight into the game. That was another problem with the zone, too much crapping on. Not enough gaming.

[Agen]

easier to arrange a game tho, without the mess btu indeed, there was too much crapping. i just hope you can get a community in jk2 rather than jsut playing games like cs.

[WD_ToRMeNt]

16 is stupid. Even games of 16 hosted by people with cable/dsl are gonna lag bad. I just can't wait for the clueless 56Kers to try and host 16.

[TUS_Tomcat]

I'll use everything, including the zone...

 

I play Urban Operations via the zone (its old, no dedicated servers, no in game browsers) and know a lot of people through it...

 

I'll use it from time to time for JO too, to paly with some folks i already know...

[Wilhuf]

If the player bandwidth requirements for Outcast are the same as Quake3, a sixteen player Outcast server will work just fine on a cable/xdsl connection.

 

Although it is true a 56k modem will not suffice for hosting 16 players, here's the basic math that Torment didn't do before he jumped to conclusions:

 

Assuming 8,000 bits per second per player for smooth cable play, with 16 players total, the server will require 128,000 bits per second upload/download. That is 128 kbps per second. Many cable/xdsl providers support that level of service.

 

Even under this setup, the bandwidth requirement is probably overestimated, since many 56k modem players will be connecting at 5,000 bps, rather than 8,000 bps.

 

Raven, now that Outcast is gold, please tell us what are the exact bandwidth requirements per player at LAN, Cable/xDSL, 56K, 33.6K?

[UseDaAgression]

In the Zone u wont be able to get 16 but on gamespy or ingame its possible , hell in cs you can get 32 in a game

[Eternity]

16 is stupid. Even games of 16 hosted by people with cable/dsl are gonna lag bad. I just can't wait for the clueless 56Kers to try and host 16.

 

Well, Wolfenstein supports up to 34 with no lag at all. That's probably with a T1, but still, it shouldn't be *that* bad....it is on the zone tho, so you may have a point. I remember Motocross Madness 2, that lagged to hell, even when using cable.

[UseDaAgression]

Hmm in the FaQ, or somthin, i think it says 56k cant even host and any 56ker with half a brain would know they cant host 16 lol... U make it seem like 56kers arnt as knowlegeable as you.

[Vanion VDS]

don't forget

 

rate

maxpackets

 

can theoretically make any connection look ****ty

[Tasuki]

I can't even get in jk games anymore tried today dammit. I was looking foward to trying out spx or sbx(something like that) and couldn't even get in.

[WD_ToRMeNt]

I ran a dedicated server off my 1500/300 something adsl for a while. You forget that you RARELY get the theoretical max bandwith and there is a lot that can happen to a data packet in transit on the net. I could host up to 8 without being unplayable but beyond that lag started to ruin the game. Most people would want to play in a game of 4-6 with lag <150 then a game of 8+ with lag > 250.

 

No matter what the connection, I would rather not play against a host with a 0 ping (he is the server) and have a ping of of more then 80 or so. There is to much of an advantage for the host, esp since JK2 has a rail-like weapon the disrupter.

[Wilhuf]

This reminds that the newbie usually blames game technology, ping, and of course, lag, for his failure to better his opponent, rather than his own skills.

 

Packet resubmission (which has almost nothing to do with the game software or design, but is mostly a function of internet conditions/traffic/collsions/etc) does not increase bandwidth requirements. The maximum data transfer rate remains constant, whether packets are lost or not.

 

Also, it's fairly common knowledge that xDSL providers usually provide about 80% rates on their advertised ul/dl service. (e.g. a 128 kbps connect would probably give you 102 kbps, give or take).

 

On a 300 kbps upload service I'd expect to get maybe 240 kbps practically speaking. That is barely room for 12 players if you set the maxrate to 20,000 bps. That would consume all of your available upload bandwidth, if everyone connected at 20,000 kbps. So, if you didnt cap your maxrate, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see some lag coming in with 12 players or so.

 

If you throttled down your maxrate to 8000 though, and if your ISP and hardware were reliable, I would not expect a laggy situation with 16 players. That would require 128 kbps, which is well under that 240 kbps upload limit.

[WD_ToRMeNt]

But the internet tends to be very unpredictable. Realize that on average, your computer must go through 10+ other computers to get to the server (and again going back). There is a lot more traffic on the net then just gaming.

 

Also you are forgetting another major issue of none-dedicated server hosts. Say I was hosting a game on the zone and since it was non-dedicated (looks like all jk2 games on the zone will be non dedicated), my computer would not only be processing the game, sending and recieving data, it would be trying to kick out as many FPS on my screen as it could. There is also the issue of RAM in larger games. CPUs will almost always run at 100% in 3d games. 3D keeps the CPU very busy and can also cause lag.

 

When I ran my dedicated server I never used more then 30% of my CPU, but, if I'm playing on a host/server mechine then the CPU will always use 100% (because of 3d takes massive calculations) and that takes clock cycles from sending and recieving updates.

 

Look at Q2 on the zone, it's populated entirely by newbies, and very few I might ad. Everyone who knows anything uses IRC, GS, or ingame. JK2 will be the same way.

[Belgirion]

But the internet tends to be very unpredictable

 

how about we all refer to the internet as the holonet

[Bowen]

Originally posted by Darth Lunatic

So you'll go on the zone just so you can say how bad it is??

 

I'd prefer to get straight into the game. That was another problem with the zone, too much crapping on. Not enough gaming.

 

Here here!

[DeathBoLT]

I wonder if seperate netcode, for zone use, has been created. Its possible they may have dedicated servers and peer to peer netcode available for JO..

[Bowen]

Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt

I ran a dedicated server off my 1500/300 something adsl for a while. You forget that you RARELY get the theoretical max bandwith and there is a lot that can happen to a data packet in transit on the net. I could host up to 8 without being unplayable but beyond that lag started to ruin the game. Most people would want to play in a game of 4-6 with lag <150 then a game of 8+ with lag > 250.

 

No matter what the connection, I would rather not play against a host with a 0 ping (he is the server) and have a ping of of more then 80 or so. There is to much of an advantage for the host, esp since JK2 has a rail-like weapon the disrupter.

 

A ping of 80 should not be that bad at all. True enough that we rarely reach our max output but I've seen people on MOH that have had a ping of 300 be whupping everyone else's butt, so if your good enough ping should not come into play unless your at about 300 or more I would say. I've got dsl too and I can usually host a game 6 people with it being smooth. I can't say for any higher because I have not hosted many games and plus JKO may have a completely rewritten Net code. Remember only about 10% of the original Q3TA engine is left intact!

[WD_ToRMeNt]

10%? That's intresting where did you read that?

 

Deathbolt, writing completely new netcode from scratch and managing to support client-server and peep-peer in the same game is way to much work when you already have netcode that is the standard for online gaming at your fingertips.

 

6 players hosts fine on my DSL, but beyond 8 you really notice lag.