It's Still Twist and Slash and HOPE You Hit Them

[Hoth]

After 1.03 there's still too much luck and little skill when you saber duel.

 

Whether you hit someone or not seems more about luck than skill.

[DannyJAllTheWay]

Perhaps it seems that way, but I don't think that that's the case. You have to somewhat know what you are doing. Now, one-hit kills are luck... Maybe.

[Pedantic]

One-hit-kills require neither luck nor skill to perform.

[DannyJAllTheWay]

Originally posted by Pedantic

One-hit-kills require neither luck nor skill to perform.

 

Could you elaborate please?

[SPY_jmr1]

I think he means the BSers, but might be wrong...

 

but still, any headless chicken(stance does not matter) will be shreded by anybody who knows what they are doing, BS or not...

 

52?

[Pedantic]

When one does a backstab/slash, there is no luck because it breaks through almost all defenses. There is no skill because all you do is pull, turn, and stab/slash.

[DannyJAllTheWay]

o i c.

[Whacko]

I know the Backslash is very powervul but I don't care.

 

Why?

 

Because I almost never let it get used on me. Maybe twicein the last month have I been BSed on a server.

 

The secret to not getting backslashed is just to avoid people who are walking around backwards.... duh

 

Only once have I seen the backslash done correctly in the two time I mentioned. I was in a duel server and the guy I was fightingjumped over me and very quickly landed into a backslash. Kudos for him its a hard trick to perform correctly.

 

People who walk around backwards just deserve to get sabered in the side. JUST SIDE STEP and don't stop moving and you will be able to avoid 99% of saber slashes. I cannot tell you how many times I sidestepped into a twirl and killed some stupid bastage while he was in the end of the backstab animation.

[Datheus]

I dunno, I've fought a BSer... (I love how the abbrv is the same as a word most people would call backstabbing ) And he'd pull me down time after time, but i'd always be up before he swung, and I'd just jump out of the way...maybe he was just slow, he should have scripted it! (Sarcasm, please don't flame, *whince*, NOT THE FACE!! NOOO!!)

 

**ah-hem**

[BlackDove]

People who walk backwards are nOObs...a kick in the ass they always get from me...

[derekdrygon]

Enable Ghoul2 saber collision on your server. It gives the pull/backstab people a hard time doing what they do best

 

 

 

 

Hitmann_D

[Nobodi Kenobi]

Well, the debate on what the 1.3 patch did to the game -- all aspects and not just sabering -- Is still being debated by players.

 

Personally, I have to agree with the topic of this thread.

 

In 1.2, you had to know what you were doing in duels and most people stuck with either yellow or red because they were the most powerful and would allow you to do the damage you needed to do in a duel -- while always moving of course -- Without leaving you open like blue used to (in addition, it's hit power was very weak and took much longer to kill someone with).

 

1.3 enhanced the BS move that is now like the AWP in Counter-Strike: One shot, one kill.

 

Yes, it can be avoided, but the fact is on almost all the servers (FFA, Team FFA, Duel) this is the only move that people use now because it ends things fairly quickly and is a guranteed kill.

 

I am not saying their is no skill using the BS... BUT there was a lot more skill in 1.2 when you HAD to keep moving because the stances (yellow and red) were more balanced. DFA wasn't that big a problem because you could always see it coming and simply jump backwards or side step out of the way. BS you can't see coming a lot of times unless people are "assfighting" -- walking around backwards which is just lame as many people said.

 

In addition, blue stance has turned into the "spinning top" manuever that requires NO skill whatsoever in my opinion and makes dueling almost pointless since dueling is supposed to be about perrys, blocks, attacks and counter-attacks.

 

Anyway, the new Ghoul2collision command seems to be helping put actual skill back into dueling, but overall 1.3 altered the game way to much in my and other people's opinion's for the worse.

[Jedi-Ghendu]

there is only so much u can do....i mean i beleieve it is the luck part do to the fact that there are many "n00bs" who dont know what the heck they are doing they run around slashing and prayin for a hit! o well thats life and it sucks but o well!

[Homosexual Ewok]

In a way I'll be glad if this is the final patch.

Honestly, to make some *note I said some, not all, of you people happy Raven would have to release daily patches as follows:

v1.04 will remove backstabs.

v1.05 will weaken absorb.

v1.06 will weaken push/pull

v1.07 will remove guns.

v1.08 will remove that gay jumping everyone does.

v1.09 will remove kicks.

v1.10 will weaken lightning.

v1.11 will weaken saber combat more so no one does those gay 3 to 4 hit kills like they did in v1.03.

 

 

And then we could all have <Insert Conan music Here> "pure duels of honor, where our true skills can be put on display"

Just 2 players, 2 sabers, and 9,876,234 hits before one of them dies.

I can't wait.

[BlackDove]

And then one of them would still go "LUKY BSTRD, YOU R A LAMR".....

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok

And then we could all have <Insert Conan music Here> "pure duels of honor, where our true skills can be put on display"

Just 2 players, 2 sabers, and 9,876,234 hits before one of them dies.

I can't wait.

 

And the contrary is comepletely ridiculous as well:

 

"Fun" duels like in JK1 where the luckiest player wins, duels that require superhuman reflexes in order to block incoming attacks and thus will scare the non-hardcore newbs away, so only the elite l33t will be left. But I guess that's what people want in here.

 

Let's look at it this way:

I can go berserk in 1.02 and end up with a dead opponent, who couldn't block my attacks,

Or I could go berserk in 1.03 and end up with my opponent blocking every single attack and thus retaliate.

 

Which is funnier? And Which is funnier for the newbs?

[Datheus]

Perhaps we could make the saber animations slow like in the OT;)

[Elegy]

I think that this game still requires skill. I played a longass duel game today with a crapload of people. Odd thing was that it wasn't a ded. server and I'm not sure how everyone found it since it was supposed to be a private game between two of us at my house but I'm rambling about completely unrelated material now. Point is that all kinds of players joined and to beat them you had to watch and observe their style. Many people came in and liked to spam one devastating move or another in particular, and it became easy to whip up a little counter-attack for it and guess their next move. Had one or two of the headless chickens join and just go wild and uncontrollable with blue stance. After trying at it and attempting various techniques I was able to take em down about 60-70% of the time. Even my style people had to sit and figure out little counters for. I mostly stick with blue stance and try to dodge the attacks and quickly strike when I see an opening (such as the opponnent jumps and swings his saber in a downward slash, I sidestep and move in behind him to slash away as the animation of his swing plays out and his saber connects with the ground). I do alot of sidestepping to dodge and I'm noticing I tend to favor sidestepping to my left alot when I get out of the way. I'm sure a few people who were in there with me picked up on that. My point is that with duels there's still strategy involved, and studying your opponnent. Or maybe that was just a really, really good game *shrug*.

[C'jais]

Exactly Elegy!

 

When I first tried the patched game, I also thought it was merely slash 'n chop and hope to win, but now my opinion has changed.

 

There *is* skill involved, no matter how you look at it. Of course, now you can also be skilled in using backstab (But that gets you no respect) and you can be skilled in avoiding the backstab and other silly moves.

 

I think my style of play has really changed, and now I've also begun to spot the *good* players, those that deserve respect. Once me and other people's counter-move strategies are nearing perfection, then I'll show the movespammaz some skill. Although I already do, to a certain degree

 

People should wait and see, then they might change their opinion.

Of course, I can't really blame the people who don't like the style of play in this patch, and I really sympathize with them, even though I think 1.03 comes to its own when there's no llamas on a server. Otherwise, I can see why people hate the backstab "maneuver"

[Homosexual Ewok]

Originally posted by cjais

 

And the contrary is comepletely ridiculous as well:

 

"Fun" duels like in JK1 where the luckiest player wins, duels that require superhuman reflexes in order to block incoming attacks and thus will scare the non-hardcore newbs away, so only the elite l33t will be left. But I guess that's what people want in here.

 

Let's look at it this way:

I can go berserk in 1.02 and end up with a dead opponent, who couldn't block my attacks,

Or I could go berserk in 1.03 and end up with my opponent blocking every single attack and thus retaliate.

 

Which is funnier? And Which is funnier for the newbs?

I think a middle ground would be best. "Nerfing" moves is never a smart solution. The reason I use backstab, and I am willing to bet a few other people too, is quite frankly, regular saber swings are about as lethal as those cardboard tubes that wrapping paper comes on.

 

I see your point about if every saber swing is an instant kill it will be a random "button mashing Spam fest".

The thing is though, when all is said and done, the goal still is to kill your opponent.

People will use a move, no matter what it is, to accomplish this.

 

This whole v1.03 patch was overkill. Raven addressed balance issues, but they went too far in their adjustments.

You want to keep the newbie-friendly auto blocking? Fine, just return the saber swings to their original damage rates so that if a swing does manage to get by the auto block, it actually does enough damage to make it worth doing.

 

A perfect example of what I am talking about can be seen by putting your saber down and running into a crowd of people fighting. You will actually parry and deflect a few swings while your saber is off. That is just absurd.

 

The DFA, BS, Blue lunge, whatever, should be just what they are, special moves with unique animations designed to accomplish attacks that normal swings can't.

The thing is though, after v1.03 what they accomplish that normal swings can't is lethal swings.

 

People like to say only "n00bs" use special moves. To some degree this is true, but if find it more often than not to be true that 90% of the people who complain about these "n00bs" and their moves, do so because they are too slow or inexperienced on how to stop them. Don’t take that as a direct shot at you, it’s just an observation I have made about the majority of players I have seen in public servers. If you try to backstab an experienced player over and over you are going to end up dead. If you try and backstab an inexperienced player you may or may not kill them, but you will end up the brunt of a post on these forums or be vote kicked out of a server.

Now tell me who is more the “n00b”?

 

All games have (and should) some sort of "equalizer" when it comes to weapons. Look at any of the Quakes, what does everyone go for? The rocket launcher. Why? Because it is lethal and even if you are new to the game you can still manage to rack up kills with it. Does that mean that you can walk right in and wipe out the guys who play for 9 hours a day? No. They will still kill you, but it gives you a chance.

[C'jais]

And that is precisely my point homo! (You don't mind being called homo, do you?)

 

I was merely pointing out that 1.02 isn't the god that many people make it into. And 1.03 isn't either.

 

A golden middle as you say is what we *really* need, not some discussion over 1.02 and 1.03. (This is my cue to all the modders reading this ...)

 

And regarding the backstab:

 

Let's say I'm using the backstab to kill people with, AND I'm also being extremely skilled and good at doing it. Now, the backstab move is easy to pull off and it comes for free. Am I skilled?

 

In Q2/3 I'm using the bfg10k to kill people with, AND I'm also being extremely skilled and good at doing it. Now, the bfg is hard to find, it doesn't last forever, and you almost never see two people wielding it at the same time. Am I skilled?

 

If by some occurence, the bfg10k was part of your starting arsenal of weapons in Q2/3, and people naturally used it to no end, in order to climb the competition ladders and win games, would those players (ab)using it be called skilled?

 

What if a player suddenly started to only use the standard machinegun and gauntlet against the rest of the people in the above scenario, would he be called skilled, or stupid?

 

All I'm saying, is that the backstab isn't the equalizer, and neither is BFG in quake.

---------------------------------------

Maybe the solution is to up the damage on regular saber attacks, but let the blocking STAY THE SAME. Just a thought.

[RahnDelSol]

I spent about 5 hours on a duel server last night, and I can say that it is DEFINITELY not luck.

 

I won a good 3/4 of my matches, but most of them were very close, it was rare that I dominated anyone. It was also a clan server, so I got to smack down about 5 or 6 members of said clan...lol

 

I'd say I got to play maybe 10-12 different people, and each one had a different tactic that I had to overcome. I had to adapt to every single person, it wasn't just a cut-and-dried routine.

[Dark Begger]

You guys want to hear something funny? We were playing a game yesterday...2 vs 2...it was quite fun. I used pull/backsweep and they used it also, while my partner didn't.

 

Let's say the time limit was 20 minutes, with a 50 kill limit, okay, the game ended in 20 minutes with a score of 8-6. You guys want to know why? We knew how to get out of pull/backstab. All you need is Dark Rage if you're dark, or absorb and a hefty foot if you're light. One counters before the pull, the other afterwards. Now I'm not saying that 8 kills in 20 minutes..(come on..that is pretty damn gay) is a good thing, hell if this was 1.02 it would be easily 40 kills...which I think would be more fun to play..faster pace. My partner did not do the pull/backstab and ended up with a total 0 frags. zero. She had 4 deaths.

 

I came out with total frags of 7, minus one tk with my partner..puts me at 6. with 4 deaths.

 

The first opponent on the other team had 6 frags, probably around 3 deaths from me, as the second had 2 frags, and 3 deaths from me.

 

Notice how the backstab users got the frags and the one that refused to use it didn't? In competition, that is the name of the game right now. Too bad that was the tournament, and my partner and I did not communicate well about how we would go about playing the tournament..but afterwards she said she would never use the pull/backstab. I should have instructed her otherwise at the beginning of the match.

 

If you want to win in competitions in tournaments..that's the only way to go right now. It's not a nice way to go, but it's the only way. If you dont' do it, kills will never occur (once someone gets hit twice and sees his health low he runs around finding health/armour and can come back at full capacity). A 20 minute match can end up holding 2 frags, which is bull****. So I feel 1 hit kills are necessary in a game to keep it fast paced.

[Telcar]

Or maybe set the blocking to 1.02 level and use Ghoul 2 collision detection, it works.

[Jedi-Ghendu]

there's only so much you can do......i mean it's honestly not that bad...if it annoys u - go find urself some l33t player and duel them if u hate the luck part of it....