Guest Kensai Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 A friend of mine pointed me to this article. It interperets the Star-Wars movies (not the EU) from a more socio-political viewpoint. Very interesting: http://www.weeklystandard.com/content/public/articles/000/000/001/248ipzbt.asp Sure, some of the points are questionable, but I do like the characterization of the Empire vs Rebels struggle. Sure, we sympathize more with the rebels, but when all is said and done, we (U.S.) have a lot more in common with the Empire. Heh, there are even some parallels between the Empire's droid-hunt on Tatooine and the U.S. Al-Quieda hunt in Afghanistan. Both were brutal campaigns designed to root out threating elements. Don't get me wrong, I am a patriot, but the parallels are interesting. Any thoughts on the article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 No. I can't summon the effort to read it. I can see the seconds of my life ticking away if I click on the link. Sum it up for me. And by the way, stick with your original feelings, being patriotic doesn't mean blindly agreeing with all of govenments policys. We trained the Al-Quieda in terrorism in the 1980's. Now we are hunting them. There was obviously a mistake at some point with the policys we adopted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro The Hutt Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 The United States of America an evil empire? I can agree with that Heck it even surpresses people like the Empire surpresses non-humans. (Edit:and the guy who wrote that does need to check some more official sources about the Force, he completely misinterprited that part ^.^ from my point of view at least) (Edit 2: Sheesh,altough he might be right on some points, he's overblowing the "good"ness of the empire and the "bad"ness of the Rebellion, hrm, changed my ideas of it all, he did not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_FinnSon Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Well, basically(I'll give you short version) Lucas based Empire on both Roman Empire AND America of the era of Vietnam war. Emperor is then again a mix of Hitler and Nixon, and rebels are Vietkong soldiers. This was basically seen in RotJ where Empire seemed so technologically advanced, but made it too overconfident and slow, while rebels(in this case ewoks which had only primitive weapons) knew how to hit and hide with their low resources. It was basically a fight between David and Goljat, and those ridiculous size differences(AT-ST opposed to ewoks) made it more interesting and mythical; at least it tried to do so, but it depends on each viewer, did it success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil25 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 since when was USA a good guy? in my opinion, just mine, they are just the lesser evil (compared to terrorists) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuietSith Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Originally posted by Fossil25 since when was USA a good guy? in my opinion, just mine, they are just the lesser evil (compared to terrorists) Oh really? Since when did terrorists start designing games like JK2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil25 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 They pirate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuietSith Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 I would highly suggest you reconsider comparing Americans to terrorists, even remotely. After 9/11 we are a tad sensitive about the subject (we lost a lot of good innocent people) - and it's basically asking for a forum ban. Just an FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIO Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 after reading that i dotend to think of the empire as a decent goverment while cruel at times i mean they don't affect ppl goign about there daily lives ppl can become rich and stuff like that...not to saw the empire wasn't evil or run by an evil person. also i agree on the piont at the end about the rebels not haveing any post ebpire goverment plans the galaxy would have become as he says "it turns the galaxy into Somalia writ large: dominated by local warlords who are answerable to no one." at least the goverment should have been over thrown like the transition between old repulic and the empire not goverment->nothing->new governeent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil25 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dath Maximus Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Yeah 9/11 made us kinda grumpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Lando Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 The USA IS the Empire! George Lucas knew this and just hired people with British accents to throw us off! Afterall, we know that Star Wars is real and is sent to us by an alien (George Lucas) to change the course of human history before America destroys the whole world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!111!!11! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dath Maximus Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 yeah...... an alien huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Originally posted by Darth_Lando The USA IS the Empire! George Lucas knew this and just hired people with British accents to throw us off! Afterall, we know that Star Wars is real and is sent to us by an alien (George Lucas) to change the course of human history before America destroys the whole world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!111!!11! Does that start at the end of the mayan calendar?(the last episode of X-files will tell you about it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyth'emos Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Originally posted by Lord_FinnSon Well, basically(I'll give you short version) Lucas based Empire on both Roman Empire AND America of the era of Vietnam war. Emperor is then again a mix of Hitler and Nixon, and rebels are Vietkong soldiers. This was basically seen in RotJ where Empire seemed so technologically advanced, but made it too overconfident and slow, while rebels(in this case ewoks which had only primitive weapons) knew how to hit and hide with their low resources. It was basically a fight between David and Goljat, and those ridiculous size differences(AT-ST opposed to ewoks) made it more interesting and mythical; at least it tried to do so, but it depends on each viewer, did it success. great, so all this time I have been supporting the Vietkong ? I will never look at starwars the same again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yom Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 The Empire isn't so bad yes it is it is very bad!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro The Hutt Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Originally posted by Kyth'emos great, so all this time I have been supporting the Vietkong ? I will never look at starwars the same again. Well America shouldn't have interrupted in the first place =p Those nosy imported europeans just got to have a say in everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dath Maximus Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Imported europeans??? We left europe!! And we had hippies!!! And hamburgers!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kensai Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 OK, im back. I like a lot of the feedback here, but I hope we don't go to far with the US = Empire stuff. I think the best point of the article is that while Lucas means for the Empire to be evil, he fails to convey what they do that is necessarily evil. Sure, they are aesthetically conveyed as bad to the bone. Just look at Vader and those nasty, conformist stormtroopers, I mean, just LOOK at them! They have some pretty nasty characters. But, when we look at the Empire as a government institution, it is a pretty sweet deal. They do a better job of cracking down on internal strife than the Republic ever did. When the Empire gets brutal, it is only against those who threaten it. Even when the Empire occupies Bespin, Vader cuts a deal with Lando so things won't have to get messy. To those who say the U.S. is evil (and mean it) I will try to be brief. The U.S. does have substantial flaws, but it is still the most prosperous, free and benevolent nation this world has ever seen. It is currently the world's greatest beacon of freedom. Those who say the U.S. is evil are either ignorant, jealous, or consumed by white guilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPeh Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Originally posted by Kensai The U.S. does have substantial flaws, but it is still the most prosperous, free and benevolent nation this world has ever seen. It is currently the world's greatest beacon of freedom. However, (in most cases) you'll find that it's only Americans who share this view. I'm not saying America is evil here, I'm attempting to point out that the American 'democracy' and goverment plans are no more free than many other countries. It's just the Americans view on themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kensai Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Well, I don't expect many people to be as gung-ho horray-for-the-USA as I am (especially non-Americans). I have friends who are missionaries, peace corps volunteers, and even work with a couple of former NATO officers, so I am very aware that the US considers itself greater than other countries believe. (doesn't every powerful nation?) I am sure people will interperet the "beacon of freedom" comment as slightly arrogant, but I believe it is true. Not necessarily because we are the most free (that is arguable, but besides the point), but because we are at the forefront of the expansion of freedom into theocratic and communist regimes. The U.N. panders to dictators, Europe is continually ceding more power to the European Union, and Russia still has a way to go for its free-society to stabalize. Right now, the US is calling most of the shots, and is doing so with a reasonable degree of caution and forethought. Anyway, enough of that tirade, I have said my peace (I hope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_FinnSon Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 If we get on sidetrack just for second and I generalize a little bit, Lucas also based Trade Federation on China(Nute Gunray has heavy Thai accent) and Naboo on Tibet(Amidala=Dalai Lama); it's even visualized as a lush paradise. In both cases, (spiritual) leader also had to get out of his/her kingdom, when invasion began. So, as you can see, Lucas also points out other countries and historical situations than only America and its recent history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 I am sorry, but I do not see America as an evil Empire. Our "Al-Queda Hunt" is in response to terrorist attacks caused by jackasses. I Don't think the rebellion used terroristic attacks on the Empire, seeing how the rebellion was more "light-sided" and went after military targets. Sure, America's military screws up every now and again, but so does every other military in the world. The only reason We Americans get pointed out is because we are powerful. We do not Abuse that power, do we? You dont see us running around trying to Take over Canada, do you? You don't see us Taking over those very very poor countries, do you? We actually provide care for those people, as does anyone else in the UN. So we are like the empire..........how? Sorry If I ruined the mood, but I am a bit too much Patriotic and I love my country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCanr2d2 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 And Al-Qaeda sprung up because the US placed military establishments too close to Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia, the home of the Muslim faith, who used the Afghani troops and people you so lovingly trained when Russia went into Afghanistan, so your point being is? Abuse of Power - interpreting a document formed in times of war to allow every person in your country to carry a gun? Stupidity/Arrogance/Aloofness - making it public knowledge in a court case the kind of impact it would take to destroy the World Trade Centre Abuse of power can be in many ways, and sticking your nose into affairs that you have no idea about, or chosing to ignore certain things because it would be politically unfriendly. You don't go and invade Canada, but you try to kill off Castro - unsuccessfully, is that not an abuse of your military power? Your abuse of power is economic, not military. Since Korea, Vietnam, and the majority of skirmishes since WW2, the USA has picked and chosen which fights to get into. Vietnam did no good to the US military, getting into a war they weren't trained for. Sometimes ignoring ones which are more ideological, and going for ones which are more economical. The USA needs to step back and have a good hard look. There are plenty of people out there that think the USA should not put it's nose into everyone else's business, where many Americans see that as "We are protecting the world" propoganda. The Jurassic Park quote "You were too busy working out if you could, but never stopped to think if you should" applies for many instances where the US has stepped into conflicts they shouldn't have. As for the poor countries, it took an Irishman to go to the UN and make an appeal to your American businesses which have bankrupted those African countries you do not militarily invade, to drop a lot of the foreign debt. But what is worse military invasion, or economic dependence on those companies who rape the natural assets of these countries? US an Evil Empire? Not really, but more of an unpopular school yard bully from times past. Empire - definitely, whether we want it or not. I am not trying to cause a flame war, I am just putting up the other side of the arguement that is very valid to those outside of the USA.... There is always a valid flip side to any comment made by any person when it comes to these kinds of issues.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 You are british, aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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