Dath Maximus Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I leave for a couple of hours and this is created? My my my. Maybe i wont leave you people agian. Go ME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaberPro Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I don't believe in Gods. And I think it'd make more sense if you said "Do you fear me if I don't believe in Gods?" Hehehe I don't know what I'm talking about anymore... *got...to...sleep...* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divine Spirit Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by SaberPro I don't believe in Gods. And I think it'd make more sense if you said "Do you fear me if I don't believe in Gods?" Hehehe I don't know what I'm talking about anymore... *got...to...sleep...* join U JAC OFF, the religion for everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I've read all of this, and I tried to consider it from an objective point of view...and then it occured to me. What if someone who was totally neutral came into the world. Which religion would he pick? Why? I mean people in America become christians for the most part, they mainly believe in christianity. Because it's the better religion and they're smarter?... NO Because most of the people around them are christians. That's obvious, and should be obvious to anyone here. I mean you don't meet many people who are born and raised in China who are followers of Christ...why? Again, because the people around them are...buddhists?? I'm sorry to say I don't know which religion the majority of Chinese people are...though I'm certain it isn't Christianity. So from this our neutral observer can note that people mostly pick their religions because it's what they're raised to do. So then our follower has to ignore people who follow religions. He has to assume that they are biased because of conditioning--in other words, they're a tainted source. So it also discounts sheer numbers for religion, which is a good thing for you christians, because if the neutral observer went by numbers, I'm reasonable certain that christianity isn't the leasing religion on the planet, since most of the population lives in China and India Even if they didn't, which christian religion would he pick? I mean christianity has to be one of the most splintered religions on the planet, there are so many variances from christian religion to christian religion, and the people in each faction can hate one another. They've even gone to war with one another... To my thinking this would be a strong negative, for the neutral observer--any religion that causes fighting within itself can't be very strong. I mean technically the roman Catholics believe that the methodists are going to hell, and the Mormans think everyone else is going to hell...and it goes on and on. So perhaps he would consider the sources? Go off and read these many books that cause these religions. Well then things would get damn confusing. He would learn that most of these religions teach basically the same things, but use different methods to get it across. There are basic differences, but basically they want you to be a decent person. I suspect at this point our neutral observer would be torn, because no religion can PROVE everything it says. Because he doesn't have a relgious prefereces to lean to, or to rebel against, he would be stuck in a place where they all look the same. So that's what might happen there... So let's talk about me for a little bit. I went to a Catholic school, and was raised a roman Catholic by an Anglican, and a Catholic who was too busy working to go to church. After I got out of Catholic school, I thought and thought about things, and I read about other religions, eastern religions, islamic religions, trying to find one that suited me, and then I realized something. If I commit to a religion, I commit to the possibility that they will tell me something that is wrong. For example, I believe that pre-marital sex, masturbation, and homosexual sex is fine. To each his own, who really cares what other people do with their bodies. If I became a Catholic, then I would be a hypocrite, because I would subscribe to a religion that says a neutral thing is bad. So it occured to me that I should follow my own beliefs, however I came about them, and not subscribe to ONE system of beliefs. This is preferable for one major reason: it allows for change. According to the bible you're not supposed to eat meat on some certain days and all kinds of nonsense that no one cares about now--it didn't change, and it should have. Life is change, and if you lock yourself into one religion, then those are your beliefs, for the rest of your life. If, however, you allow yourself the freedom of belief, then you can change your mind. You are free to say 'I was wrong for believing in that, I can see that now.' This is a powerful tool though, and few people are able to accept it's burden, and some people are not moral enough to operate without some belief structure telling them that they have to. Well I am able to be a good person without the fear of hell, or the promise of heaven. I am able to make moral choices, and I am able to feel guilty when I do things that I believe are wrong. You won't go to hell if you lead a good life, but don't believe in Jesus--that's nonsense. If there is a hell, and there is a god who is all powerful and all knowing, your believing or not believing in him won't matter, because otherwise he would have to be one egotistical son of a bitch, and ego is a product of imperfection. Lead a good life, and don't get wrapped up in that god stuff, it's WAY above your puny brain, and mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divine Spirit Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by Vestril I've read all of this, and I tried to consider it from an objective point of view...and then it occured to me. What if someone who was totally neutral came into the world. Which religion would he pick? Why? i assume they would just not pick a religion. If theyve lived their life so far without religion then why should they suddenly pick something they havent even thought of before? if your talking about 'and they HAD to pick a religion' i suppose ur right- i didnt read the whole thing so ill give u the benefit of the doubt but thanks for the input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by 123456789101112 Hey, buddy, your a waste of time. I don't think so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by Divine Spirit i assume they would just not pick a religion. If theyve lived their life so far without religion then why should they suddenly pick something they havent even thought of before? if your talking about 'and they HAD to pick a religion' i suppose ur right- i didnt read the whole thing so ill give u the benefit of the doubt but thanks for the input You're really bad at thought experiments...you know that??? (just kidding you ) Ok ok, allow me to qualify this a little. This hypothetical being just came into existence, a fully cognizent being, and has only a sense of right and wrong. If you say 'is murder wrong?' he'll be able to answer you, but if you ask him 'what is wrong and what is right?' he won't know, because it's not a knowledge, it's a feeling. His guidelines as to what specifically is right or wrong isn't pertinent, just to head off all of you naysayers (though thankfully most of the idiots proclaimed that they were leaving this thread...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789101112 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by Vestril For example, I believe that pre-marital sex, masturbation, and homosexual sex is fine. To each his own, who really cares what other people do with their bodies. Vestril, I read everything you said and I understand everything that you said. One thing that I want to point out here. Those things are wrong. Homosexuality is wrong for two reasons: It is not love cummunicating and there is no openess to having a child. Anal sex is wrong no matter what. It is even wrong for a woman and a man to have anal sex. Oral sex is wrong too. Neither thing is love communicating and there is no openess to having a child. If there is no way that a child could be the possible outcome of that act, than it's wrong. Mastubation is wrong becuz that of those two reasons and cuz it devalues the act of sexual intercourse. You say who cares what other people do with their bodies. I don't get that. So are you saying that abortions are ok than? Cuz the main reason why people say that abortions are ok is cuz it's a female's body and she can do with it what she wants. Like it or not, the child is not part of her body. It is distinct and different. She is merely carrying it. It is an individual being. That's one thing that is wrong with pre-marital sex than. It creates the atmosphere that sex is fine and if you do accidentally get her pregnant, you can just have an abortion. Sex is supposed to be love communicating. How does that communicate love? If we do have a child, the product of our love, we can just delete it if we don't want it. That's why you have to wait till marraige. How would you like it if your mom choose to have an abortion? You would never have existed. Ah, but she could have if she wanted to right? If you truely feel that people are able to do what they want with their body, than you would have to be against abortion. Sure, your mom is allowed to do what she wants with her own body, but does that mean that she's able to force you do what she wants? So, people are able to do what they want and I guess they can force you to do what they want, even if you don't want it. You don't get a say in this. The father doesn't get a say either. How is that fair? You can't just do whatever you want with your body just becuz it's yours. I have a car. It's mine. That doesn't mean that I can just go and drive it wherever I want to or drive recklessly. I can't go drive it into a building. You might say well the building is not yours so you can't drive it into a building. Guess what, that child is not yours either. Just like there are certain responsibilities that you must follow when you go out onto the road while driving a car, the same thing applies to the child. BTW, you say that your environment affects your religion. Guess what. It does. However, that does not mean that becuz everyone around you is Christian that you have to be Christian too. You still can choose. They teach me Christain values in school. They present the material to me, I don't have to accept it. My friend goes to a Catholic school and he's a atheist. Your environment doesn't mean that that's what you have to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aNaL tHeRapisT Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Ehh... too much to read... so I'll post a picture I think is relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky_Baccy Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by Vestril I've read all of this, and I tried to consider it from an objective point of view...and then it occured to me. What if someone who was totally neutral came into the world. Which religion would he pick? Why? I mean people in America become christians for the most part, they mainly believe in christianity. Because it's the better religion and they're smarter?... NO <snip> Lead a good life, and don't get wrapped up in that god stuff, it's WAY above your puny brain, and mine. I'm shocked and slightly disturbed at how completely I agree with your post, Vestril... It's like you took the thoughts right out of my mind... (seriously) Posted by 123456789101112 BTW, you say that your environment affects your religion. Guess what. It does. However, that does not mean that becuz everyone around you is Christian that you have to be Christian too. You still can choose. They teach me Christain values in school. They present the material to me, I don't have to accept it. My friend goes to a Catholic school and he's a atheist. Your environment doesn't mean that that's what you have to be. He didn't say that if everyone around you were Christian (or whatever) you would have to be too; he said that the major religion in a society affects and influences the numbers of people who practise/subscribe to it (the bigger it gets, the less room for change/variation there is), and affects the way most people in that society live their lives (imposed morals/values). The rest of your post is debatable, but I don't really feel like debating right now (too tired) - so I'll leave that to Vestril Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 BTW, you say that your environment affects your religion. Guess what. It does. However, that does not mean that becuz everyone around you is Christian that you have to be Christian too. You still can choose. They teach me Christain values in school. They present the material to me, I don't have to accept it. My friend goes to a Catholic school and he's a atheist. Your environment doesn't mean that that's what you have to be. Of course you can, I never said you couldn't. I'm talking about raw numbers. If it didn't affect it, then we would have islam, christianity, buddism, and all of that other stuff spread in a somewhat equal manner. Instead we have concentrations of each religion in certain areas. This leads to the reasonably obvious conclusion that enviornment affects your judgement. It doesn't HAVE to affect it, but it can. Homosexuality is wrong for two reasons: It is not love cummunicating and there is no openess to having a child. Bull. Homosexuality, just like heterosexuality, can be about love or lust. Do not generalize like that, it suggests that you are ignorant. Also, some women are infertile, if they get married, should they be unable to have sex? Homosexual couples are able to adopt, from the children that some heterosexual couples were too cowardly or callous to raise (that is generalizing, I know--some people are forced into that situation, fair enough). It is even wrong for a woman and a man to have anal sex. Oral sex is wrong too. Neither thing is love communicating and there is no openess to having a child. If there is no way that a child could be the possible outcome of that act, than it's wrong. Mastubation is wrong becuz that of those two reasons and cuz it devalues the act of sexual intercourse. When I eat a cheesburger, it isn't love communicating. Does that mean that I can't eat cheesburgers? Also, Masturbation doesn't devalue the act of sex, it potentially enhances it, especially for women. It's generally more difficult for a woman to have an orgasm than a man, and one friend of mine put it bluntly: 'it's because we don't practice as much.' Intimate knowledge of yourself allows you to better understand what pleases you, which you can communicate to your partner, thus allowing for better sex. Why does sex have to result in a child? It's just something that two people do...holding hands doesn't result in a child, neither does kissing. Is it the orgasm that makes the difference? Why should the orgasm make the difference? It's just another form of pleasure, like eating a cheesburger (albeit a better form ). The only one that makes any sense is the ban on pre-marital sex. Having your first time with the person you will be commited to for the rest of your life allows you to mold yourself sexually to them, plus it makes it a little more special. On the other hand practice with other people can make you more confident with your partner, so that has advantages too. You say who cares what other people do with their bodies. I don't get that. So are you saying that abortions are ok than? Cuz the main reason why people say that abortions are ok is cuz it's a female's body and she can do with it what she wants. Like it or not, the child is not part of her body. It is distinct and different. She is merely carrying it. It is an individual being. That's one thing that is wrong with pre-marital sex than. It creates the atmosphere that sex is fine and if you do accidentally get her pregnant, you can just have an abortion. Sex is supposed to be love communicating. How does that communicate love? If we do have a child, the product of our love, we can just delete it if we don't want it. That's why you have to wait till marraige. How would you like it if your mom choose to have an abortion? You would never have existed. Ah, but she could have if she wanted to right? If you truely feel that people are able to do what they want with their body, than you would have to be against abortion. Sure, your mom is allowed to do what she wants with her own body, but does that mean that she's able to force you do what she wants? So, people are able to do what they want and I guess they can force you to do what they want, even if you don't want it. You don't get a say in this. The father doesn't get a say either. How is that fair? You can't just do whatever you want with your body just becuz it's yours. I have a car. It's mine. That doesn't mean that I can just go and drive it wherever I want to or drive recklessly. I can't go drive it into a building. You might say well the building is not yours so you can't drive it into a building. Guess what, that child is not yours either. Just like there are certain responsibilities that you must follow when you go out onto the road while driving a car, the same thing applies to the child. I don't think you realize how stupid this part of your argument is. I mean no offense here, but I never brought abortion into this argument, and you actually responded as to why I wouldn't. It isn't just her body she's affecting, there is also a tiny being in there that is half someone elses. To me it is absolutely wrong that a woman can have an abortion without the consent of the father. Absolutely wrong. However, there is a side issue--reality. The reality is that if a woman wants an abortion, she will have it. Period. You can say it's wrong till the cows come home, but at the end of the day, she'll use a coat hanger if she has to. So my thinking is, make it legal and make sure she does it safely. It's terrible, it's horrible, but it's better than her getting killed because of a dangerous abortion. Now, let me ask a favor of you. Do not EVER put words in my mouth like that again. You said that I was on a certain side of that issue and I had not brought it up at ALL. What you did was insulting and rude, and I honestly expect an apology. I think I have been very polite about this, given the circumstances. --Edit-- Glad you agree with that one Wacky , you may not agree with this one , also, thanks for the defense, you hit the nail on the head. Maximus--why would we want to stop?? This is fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dath Maximus Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 i say we all forget this over a nice monkey knife fight! get him furious george!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Quote by Vestril What if someone who was totally neutral came into the world. Which religion would he pick? Why? Well ok ill get into this a little more. I was raised Catholic. Durring my time growing up I did ALOT of reading. I still do. Now I dont consider myself Catholic anymore. I am not Athiest. I am very spiritual. I dont belong to any religion though. I am a seeker of knowledge. Im very open minded. I study alot of the worlds religions, and ancient world history. I come to my own conclusions. If we look at most of all the earths religions, they all are alike in a way. They all have the same storys, but of coarse the charecters names and locations names are going to be different. If it be christianity,judism,muslim,ancient egyptian storys,Hindu,greek, romans,mayan,aztek,incan, ect-they all have stories that are simmilar to one another(if you look into it thoughrouly). Most of the religions we have now have been altered thoughout the ages. If you look back. There has been a global destruction of the REALLY old text. All we have now are storys of old that were written down in books(various Bibles being some of them). Most of the wars that have happened in the past have to do with religion. Think about it. The word Religion comes from a root word that means "division". Thats exactly what is has done. Look at the crusades. It was a religious journey in the name of christianity. They would kill anyone who didnt except chrstianity as their religion. They would burn any holy text from their defeated enemies and then they would force them to become christian. We see this alot in the earths history. Ancient scriptures have been destroyed in egypt,in the mayan,incan,aztek citys, the library of alexandria, ect. People wanting to "erase" any other religion and make theirs "one". What little text and scriptures are left are the most interesting. The oldest scriptures on earth are the summerian tablets. They are about 2000+ years older than the time the 1st hebrew bible was written. It is amazing how simmilar the storys in thse tablets are to the ones in the bible, anong with the other religions as well. These events had to have an original source. All the other religions just adapted elements from them and made their own religions. There is proof in text and there is proof in ruins all over world. Now religion is used as a method of control. Some invented charecters like satan to scare people into doing as they are told by the priests. In these ancient scriptures there is alot of interesting storys that fit perfectly into the puzzle like the example I gave in my earlier post about -Eloheim meaning "Gods". Anyhow everyone can beleive in what they want to. I choose to be open minded and learn as much knowledge that I can. I will maybe one day write a book:) "The Earths Religion" is a good title for it , I think. There is a saying I like it goes like this: "religion is like a prison for the seekers of wisdom" I am no "madman" , I do think im religious. I do study religion. I study them as a whole though. As one Ancient Story that have been lost in time. Only a watered down version remain , in the current religions we have now. I have more to say but Ill stop. In no way am I saying this is how it is. This is just a "small" example of what I beleive in. Hope I dont get crucified for stating this;) We all have to learn to respect everyones views and not hate them for what they believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Good call MotionMan, I agree with you. I don't mean to come across as...condescending towards other religions, or the people who follow them. I think they all serve an important purpose. It's just that as I get into this I can be a little...overly stringent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dath Maximus Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 it seems no one is noticing me. All i ask is for some recognition!!! Im doing all i can to ease you people with some good quality knife fights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by Dath Maximus it seems no one is noticing me. All i ask is for some recognition!!! Im doing all i can to ease you people with some good quality knife fights Hey, I edited my post, look up a few at the --Edit-- section, you're mentioned --Edit-- It was before your post, in terms of where they fall, but I edited after I read it, and decided to put it there rather than make a new post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dath Maximus Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 hmmm boy do i feel foolish. Now place your bets i got to monkies who are looking for blood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I try to not think about it 24/7 and let it consume me. I am no kind of fanatic. If you meet me in person I wont even mention my beliefs to you. Only if it comes up. I have known people who throw it in your face and thats all they talk about. How great their religion is and that if you dont act like a good religious person youll burn in hell and whatnot. I hardly talk about this. I study it cause it interests me. Im usualy am joking around having a good time. Thats the kind of guy I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by MotionMan I try to not think about it 24/7 and let it consume me. I am no kind of fanatic. If you meet me in person I wont even mention my beliefs to you. Only if it comes up. I have known people who throw it in your face and thats all they talk about. How great their religion is and that if you dont be better youll burn in hell. I hardly talk about this. I study it cause it interests me. I usualy am joking around having a good time. Exactly, that's why I kind of expounded on here, I very rarely talk about it with people, partly because I'm a big believer in personal privacy, and partly because I know people would get offended, or wouldn't understand. Maximus--I place my bet on Beppo, Mojo killed his kitten last sunday, and Beppo is out for vengeance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dath Maximus Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 cool man cool. Beppo it is any one for mojo cause this is my last post here in this thread for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky_Baccy Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by Vestril Glad you agree with that one Wacky , you may not agree with this one Damn... You read me like a book ...Well, not entirely - but pretty close Maximus--why would we want to stop?? This is fun Too true! Exactly, that's why I kind of expounded on here, I very rarely talk about it with people, partly because I'm a big believer in personal privacy, and partly because I know people would get offended, or wouldn't understand. And the similarities continue... BTW, which ones (and what... I'm guessing monkeys...) are Beppo and Mojo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789101112 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Vestril, Fine, I apologize for assuming that you were pro-choice. You said that people could do whatever they like with their bodies and I assumed from that that you were pro-choice, since that is the main arguement for pro-choicers. I am sorry for assuming. I demand an apology too. How dare you call my beliefs as stupid. I'm sorry if I can't express them as well as you can express your views. I am trying to proclaim the official Catholic stance on these issues. I'm sorry if I'm having a hard time expressing them. You will keep arguing this until you "win", which is wrong. I do know what I'm talking about. I don't consider myself omnipotent or something like that, but I do know a little bit about this. You act like you are right and that's final. Well, it's not. You act like your on a higher platform becuz someone else agrees with you. I apologized for making an incorrect assumption about you.(though in your explaination here, it kinda seems like I made a correct assumption) Nevertheless, you demanded an apology, so I gave you one. Now, I demand you to apologize for calling my beliefs stupid. I'm only trying to explain to you the official Catholic teachings. You are the one being ignorant and close-minded. "no offense, but your aguement here is stupid" Sorry man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789101112 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by Vestril It doesn't HAVE to affect it, but it can. Exactly. You proved my point. It affects it but it doesn't have to. Bull. Homosexuality, just like heterosexuality, can be about love or lust. Do not generalize like that, it suggests that you are ignorant. Also, some women are infertile, if they get married, should they be unable to have sex? Homosexual couples are able to adopt, from the children that some heterosexual couples were too cowardly or callous to raise (that is generalizing, I know--some people are forced into that situation, fair enough). I have a question for you. Why is that some people are homosexuals one day and than heterosexuals the next? They choose to be like that. I'm not bashing homosexuals. Homosexuality is fine, as long as you don't act upon it. I don't have a problem with homosexuals. Your not supposed to act upon that though that's all. Adoption for homosexuals is okay I would speculate. Though, this is important, you must do what right for the child. raising a child in a family where he has two dad's or two mom's is not in the best interest for the child. You have to do what's best for the child. Can you honestly say that a child growing up like that is in the child's best interest? When I eat a cheesburger, it isn't love communicating. Does that mean that I can't eat cheesburgers? Also, Masturbation doesn't devalue the act of sex, it potentially enhances it, especially for women. It's generally more difficult for a woman to have an orgasm than a man, and one friend of mine put it bluntly: 'it's because we don't practice as much.' Intimate knowledge of yourself allows you to better understand what pleases you, which you can communicate to your partner, thus allowing for better sex. Yeah, like if you marry a virgin. You could just say yeah I have a huge penis. How would she know if it is or not? She would have no way of knowing. Pre-marital sex and masturbation devalues sexual intercourse. Ever notice that the more times you do something, the less fun it is? You think to yourself, "boy that would be great if all day I could just do this one thing that I really enjoy over and over." It would get boring. Like, I like pizza. If I eat that everyday for the rest of my life, wouldn't you think that I would begin to start hating pizza? It's the same thing with masturbation and pre-marital sex. It doesn't enhance it. You see how that would devalue it? Why does sex have to result in a child? It's just something that two people do...holding hands doesn't result in a child, neither does kissing. Is it the orgasm that makes the difference? Why should the orgasm make the difference? It's just another form of pleasure, like eating a cheesburger (albeit a better form ). Sex doesn't have to result in a child. You have to be willing to have a child if that shoudl occur. Exactly, oragasm are a better form of pleasure. So, like I said earlier, would you, if you were given the option, eat cheeseburgers all day everyday for the rest of your life? The only one that makes any sense is the ban on pre-marital sex. Having your first time with the person you will be commited to for the rest of your life allows you to mold yourself sexually to them, plus it makes it a little more special. On the other hand practice with other people can make you more confident with your partner, so that has advantages too. cool.... I don't think you realize how stupid this part of your argument is. I mean no offense here, but I never brought abortion into this argument, and you actually responded as to why I wouldn't. right.. like I said earlier, you can't do whatever you want with your body. You just can't. You can't go and eat and eat and eat all you want. It's called gluttony. It's a sin. You have to take care of your body. You can't just do what you want with it. It isn't just her body she's affecting, there is also a tiny being in there that is half someone elses. To me it is absolutely wrong that a woman can have an abortion without the consent of the father. Absolutely wrong. cool... However, there is a side issue--reality. The reality is that if a woman wants an abortion, she will have it. Period. You can say it's wrong till the cows come home, but at the end of the day, she'll use a coat hanger if she has to. So my thinking is, make it legal and make sure she does it safely. It's terrible, it's horrible, but it's better than her getting killed because of a dangerous abortion. NO, here's a period for ya, coming up. <---- Thah is a period. You can't do that. You can't just go and kill someone cuz you don't want them. I guess I could go over to your house and kill you cuz I don't like you, using your logic. It's a human. How come a woman can have an abortion, yet, if she gets killed in a car accident, the guy who hit them gets charged with a double murder? WTF? That is bull. They acknowledge that it is a human than, but not when she wants to kill it. What do you think? Back-alley abortions are not like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime-Light Posted June 29, 2002 Author Share Posted June 29, 2002 Hey! im back. I do think a woman, should she have sex, be prepared to deal with all possible outcomes, along with the man. However, I have a friend who is actually have a pregnancy scare right now, and shes petrified. She would have to drop out, give up her budding career in journalism, and raise a child she cat support and whom her whole family would resent. Thats not in the best interests of the child. I dont think she should (if she pregnant) get an abortion, but if thats what she feels she should do, I believe she has that right, becuase I know the guy invlved doesnt want anything to do with it. As I stated on the first page, I respect most of the christian morals. Some are outdated, but they make sense. I dont like homosexuality, simply becuase it seems like a rather unatural and disgusting thing to me, but I its thier choice, and I can put that aside easily enough, and respect them as a human being, instead of being offended by thier very being. Poeple need freedom, and I think western religions (many Aisian religions allow for multiple beliefs systems) restrict freedom, and restrict open mineded-ness (I state that as a generalization, and really most poeple I talk to are christian, and open to other ideas, but fundamental christianity is not open minded), so I have a problem with that. But I'm going to look at religion in another way. Not as a belief system, or a club, but as an organism. What is an organisms goal? One, to survive, two, to expand and grow in numbers. If you look at religion in this way, you see that many of its rules and practices are there simply to ensure its further existence. You're going to eternal fiery torture if you dont believe in christianity. You go live in a wonderful place of peace and love with the supreme being if you believe. Sign me up! Take a look at buddhism for instance. Life is hell, you need nothing but to meditate and achieve xen so you can leave, instead of being reincarnated back to this hell. I dont understand what the positive result of sitting around trying to escape life is, but you certianly practice your religion if you want to be one with the universe, and so the religion survives. Religions began as a primitive way to explian the occurences around man kind. Now they have evovled into a power struggle of who can obtian the most believers and finaly "enlighten" everyone over to thier side, with the exception of the Bin Laden group, who simply tries to erradicate the other side. What troubles me about this great war between beliefs, is what progress can be made? With the Christians bidding thier time untill they can be with god, the buddhists siting on thier asses meditating and th fundamentalists killing folks, were does man kind as a whole go? Nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789101112 Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Originally posted by Lime-Light Hey! im back. I do think a woman, should she have sex, be prepared to deal with all possible outcomes, along with the man. However, I have a friend who is actually have a pregnancy scare right now, and shes petrified. She would have to drop out, give up her budding career in journalism, and raise a child she cat support and whom her whole family would resent. Thats not in the best interests of the child. I dont think she should (if she pregnant) get an abortion, but if thats what she feels she should do, I believe she has that right, becuase I know the guy invlved doesnt want anything to do with it. She should have know what the possible outcome could have been. Like she didn't know that she could have had a child. THAT is the exact reason why you should wait until you're married. Doesn't that make sense? She doesn't have to abort the child. She will have to go through the pregnancy and just give the child up for adoption afterwards. There are plenty of people that want to adopt. That would be in the child's best interest. If she can't provide a good environment for the child, someone else can. But I'm going to look at religion in another way. Not as a belief system, or a club, but as an organism. What is an organisms goal? One, to survive, two, to expand and grow in numbers. If you look at religion in this way, you see that many of its rules and practices are there simply to ensure its further existence. You're going to eternal fiery torture if you dont believe in christianity. You go live in a wonderful place of peace and love with the supreme being if you believe. Sign me up! Take a look at buddhism for instance. Life is hell, you need nothing but to meditate and achieve xen so you can leave, instead of being reincarnated back to this hell. I dont understand what the positive result of sitting around trying to escape life is, but you certianly practice your religion if you want to be one with the universe, and so the religion survives. I am really sorry that you look at it that way. You could say that about anything than and make it seem bad. So organisms like to further their existance eh? Well, why would Jesus die for a lie than? Wouldn't he like to live a little bit longer? Why would his followers die than too? Sure, you want others to belong and yes you do want the religion to survive. Why wouldn't you? That applies to everything. Just like in school for me, they present the material to me, but I don't have to accept it. You make it seem so bad by saying that you will rot in hell if you don't follow Christianity. Religions began as a primitive way to explian the occurences around man kind. Now they have evovled into a power struggle of who can obtian the most believers and finaly "enlighten" everyone over to thier side, with the exception of the Bin Laden group, who simply tries to erradicate the other side. Metaphysicalists pondered those questions. I don't believe they actually established an organization. I doubt that's true. What troubles me about this great war between beliefs, is what progress can be made? With the Christians bidding thier time untill they can be with god, the buddhists siting on thier asses meditating and th fundamentalists killing folks, were does man kind as a whole go? Nowhere. Well, where do you go sitting on your ass in front of the tv? I guess that way, you at least get some excitment watching your favorite team make it all the way. No progress there. At least they are doing something and they are actually acting on behalf of their beliefs. Really, I gotta see that as being better than sitting home and seeing who's on Letterman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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