Shadow Angel Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 This debate is based on what I posted in the "Most Powerful Jedi" thread almost 24 hours ago. It seemed that everyone was voting either Anakin, Yoda, or Sidious. I took that opportunity to argue why Sidious is the most powerful of them all (he IS my favorite character, after all, and I can get really worked up over that sometimes) but many people disagreed. That's okay, but I'd like to have everyone's opinion on the matter. Here's my original post on the "Most Powerful Jedi" thread. It doesn't really say why Sidious would beat Yoda, but it's still a good reference. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It seems to me that this entire debate is a three-way tie between Anakin, Sidious, and Yoda. I think Luke is better than Anakin, considering that Yoda trained him for, what, 3 days? If you compare his learning rate to the average prequel-era Jedi, Luke would be on the Council within a week! However, Yoda still seems to be more powerful than him, so I'm going to rule both Skywalkers out. It comes down to Yoda and Sidious, at complete opposite ends of the Force spectrum. Personally, I think Sidious dominates (and not just because he's my favorite fictional character of all time and he rocks.) You see, in the old trilogy, before AOTC ever came around, we saw Yoda as all talk, looking like an old, worn-out Muppet reject who couldn't walk three feet. I mean, sure, he lifted the X-wing out of the swamp, but other than that, he just blabbered about the Force and in ROTJ, he just said a few lines and died! (I'm not trying to diss Yoda, he's cool, you'll see my point in a minute.) Unfortunately, this also applies to Sidious/Palpatine. In ROTJ, I expected to see one bad@$$ tough-looking dude, and what did I get? A decrepit old man on a friggin' cane! In the movies, all we see him do is either throw Lightning (which is still awesome) or talk through holograms with his face covered (wish I could too.) Back to Yoda: Here comes AOTC. Still, here's Yoda, meditating and giving orders, sending clonetroopers to their deaths, but still no action. Then comes the hangar scene with Tyranus. A short 30-second fighting sequence and Yoda's the biggest action hero of the summer, and we all put him on the top of the most powerful Jedi list. Now, if this trend continues, I have a feeling that in Episode III, we'll get to see the full extent of Sidious's dark powers with flinging boulders, whipping up lightning storms, maybe swinging bad@$$ dual purple lightsabers, and soon he'll replace Darth Maul as the official T-shirt bad guy (notice how there are so many Darth Maul T-shirts?) And, of course, since I'm a HUGE Palpatine fan, this is good for me and now I can wear a Palpatine T-shirt and have a LOT more Palpatine JKII skins to download (just like how there are so many Maul skins out there.) So, my vote goes to Darth Sidious. Long live the Emperor. -- End. (I'm still learning how to format the texts and stuff, otherwise, I would have had the above text in bold or something.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 1on1 Yoda... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben_Walker Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Well I have to vote for Yoda. First off, I bet if he focused all his energy he'd probery be able to fight for a while with the skill we saw against Tyrannus. But I'd love to see Yoda and Sidious going head to head, going all out in a lightsaber battle. If Lucas can turn Yoda into one fast little bugger, he probery can do something to give Sidious an advantage as a saberist. I think that if they did have a battle, it would be really close and go on for awhile, but I would have to say that Yoda would come out on top. But I do agree with you on the part about the emperor in the original's. You would've expected a guy like Emperor Katarn. Big strong guy with the power to destroy life in a star system within his breath. Or even one of the Palpatine young clones from Dark Empire. But it would be cool to see Yoda using his full power of the lightside battling Sidious using the maximin of his dark power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Hmmm...tough one.We dont know Sidious' true power,so I dont know.I would vote Sidious,tho because he is just too creepy to be a weakling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Angel Posted June 29, 2002 Author Share Posted June 29, 2002 Hmm... addressing the issue of Palpatine being old and weak, it says in the Star Wars (Original Trilogy) Visual Dictionary that he uses a cane to appear weak to his enemies, not because he needs it. It's rather similar to how Yoda doesn't need his cane either (well, when he's not using the Force.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda_623 Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 I'm still goin with Yoda. From what I saw it was a pretty close fight. Hopefully they'll finish it in the next film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Joka'ar Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Well Shadow Angel, I have some uestion for you. You see, I have posted a issue about Darth Sidious is Emperor Palpatine in another forum.The result is, there several member do not agree with it. Their reasons are -The plot is too obivious -GL is trying to give some surpise(like DV is Luke father,Leia is sister). -Most of us is using the sequel to predict the prequel -Some other $h!t that I have forgotten There for,are u sure DS is EP? I am not trying to flame you but I am just a Padawan Fan looking for answers:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Jai-Obaj Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 acutualy i have no clue they both rock. with their powers if they clashed it would be great. but if i had to choose it would be yoda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Joka'ar Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Keep this alive, My question is still not answered:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondraedan Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 I'd say sidious would be most powerful, but I think anakin had the potential to be most powerful, if he completed his training and become a jedi knight. He was, after all, conceived by mediclorians(sp?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Angel Posted July 1, 2002 Author Share Posted July 1, 2002 Darth Joka'ar, I''m quite confident that Sidious and Palpatine are one and the same. Think about it: How else would you explain Palpatine being a Sith Lord after "rescuing" Vader from the molten pit? Episode III is only a couple of years from AOTC (and yes, it's confirmed that the Vader suit will be in the movie.) Plus, it's evident in AOTC that he's evil. He talks privately with Anakin in his office about him being the most powerful Jedi, not needing direction and so forth. Also, he's aged WAY faster than normal since Episode I. The toll of the Dark Side is showing in his face. If anything else, the actor for Darth Sidious is not listed in the credits, suggesting that Ian McDiarmid (the actor for Palpatine, even in ROTJ) is filling the role. Now, I know that it's not confirmed that they're the same, but I'm pretty sure. And if Episode III comes around and he's someone else, I'm going to feel like one big n00b. (or something else, I'm not fluent in Internet slang.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Joka'ar Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Explain why the Jedi Counsel couldnt sense the Force in Palpatine(again not to flame:p ) I got one saying that Palpatine is the clone of Sidious. Then Sidious take Palpatine place and become the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JandoFett1842 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Sidious/Palpy would try to zap him with FL, Yoda would obsorbe it into his hand and send it back, then pull out his saber and bust out some kung fu stances the sic Sidious out and then jump around Sidious so fast that he would be cut into 100 pices before 30 seconds of fighing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 First off I think Yoda would win. Ok then Now ill say that I think Sidious is an awsome charecter and I love the siths:). Anyhow I wasnt sure about Sidious using a saber in ep.3 But after I saw a pic of his with a saber i changed my mind. Its a fake but it looks awsome. http://www.thelightsaber.com/epIIupdate/17.GIF Hopefully he uses one and fights someone like Mace or another Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Angel Posted July 1, 2002 Author Share Posted July 1, 2002 Originally posted by MotionMan Ok then Now ill say that I think Sidious is an awsome charecter and I love the siths:). Anyhow I wasnt sure about Sidious using a saber in ep.3 But after I saw a pic of his with a saber i changed my mind. Its a fake but it looks awsome. http://www.thelightsaber.com/epIIupdate/17.GIF Hopefully he uses one and fights someone like Mace or another Jedi. That pic is sweet, so I added it to my collection of Sidious/Palpatine images. If you're into Expanded Universe, you'd know that in the Dark Empire comic series that 6 or so years after ROTJ, Palpatine is reborn in a young clone body, and duels Luke with a lightsaber. I would, though, imagine that if Mace dies at Sidious' hands, it would be by some Dark Side magic rather than a saber. That would be cool if it was by a saber, though. Answering Darth Joka'ar's question, that's a really good arguement point towards the Sidious-is-not-Palpatine people. The best I can explain that is because Palpatine knows of a skill that can cloak his "aura of evil." He's a cool character, he can a lot of things. In Expanded Universe sources, like Dark Empire, Palpatine can transfer his soul into clone bodies if his current body dies, he can create Force Storms that are more devastating than hurricanes, use a lightsaber, and a bunch of other stuff. To further argue this, Mace stated that the Jedi's ability to use the Force has diminished. They couldn't sense the attack of Padme's ship, or that Tyranus would leave the Order. They didn't even know he was a Sith until he revealed it to Obi-Wan and Anakin. That really rubs it in Yoda's and Mace's face when they're in Palpatine's office, pondering over the Sith and the Dark Side, when they're staring right at Palpatine. Oh, yes, I forgot to say that in Episode I, during Qui-Gon's funeral, right after Mace asks who was destroyed, the master or the apprentice, the camera shifts to a close-up of Palpatine. Finally, also in Episode I, Palpatine says to Anakin (not the exact line, I don't thnk) "We look forward to your career with great interest." It's also obvious that he's power-hungry. I mean, he really pushes Padme to vote out Chancellor Valorum, he comments that the Republic needs a strong Chancellor, emphasizing the word "strong." That's quite an understatement, as he becomes a dictator. The Clone Wars gives him an opportunity to stay in office beyond the term limit, build an army of stormtroopers (wether the clones are stormtroopers or not should be discussed elsewhere, but it says in The Art of Episode II that they're supposed to evolve into the original trilogy troopers) and, if you go to http://www.holonetnews.com, which is an official Lucasfilm site with news reports as if you were a citizen in Episode II, it should say that the news channel is closed for emergency purposes by the Office of the Supreme Chancellor. This is how the Emperor censors anti-Imperial news articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Angel Posted July 1, 2002 Author Share Posted July 1, 2002 Wait a minute, I just noticed a "Is Darth Sidious really Palpatine" thread right below this one! D'oh! Alright, this is going to be the last word about them being the same or not. To further argue the issue of Yoda not sensing Palpatine in his office, how come the Empire couldn't find Obi-Wan or Yoda? (and if you bring up the Expanded Universe reason of the Dark Jedi's spirit in the cave concealing Yoda, that still doesn't explain Obi-Wan, and I can say that Palpatine had a ysalamiri in his pocket.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Angel Posted July 1, 2002 Author Share Posted July 1, 2002 Originally posted by JandoFett1842 Sidious/Palpy would try to zap him with FL, Yoda would obsorbe it into his hand and send it back, then pull out his saber and bust out some kung fu stances the sic Sidious out and then jump around Sidious so fast that he would be cut into 100 pices before 30 seconds of fighing! Palpatine's lightning is WAY more powerful than Tyranus', and Sidious must be at least as good with lightsabers as Darth Maul, because in Expanded Universe (how many times do I have to say that?) he trained Maul from birth every thing he knows, including lightsabers. I haven't read any Maul books (I got this from a reference document), but Maul's final test (or one of them) was dueling Sidious, and he lost! Even if you don't take EU into account, how else does Maul know how to use the lightsaber? So my point is that Sidious, although we never see him use one in the movies, should be very competent in using one. If not, I think Tyranus would kill Sidious for the title of Sith Master. In fact, that's how a lot of Sith become the Master. And don't give me the brainwashing bull, Tyranus has been sort of a rebel since the start of his career, and he never swore allegiance to anything, not even the Jedi, so I don't think he's sworn total allegiance to Sidious (which could be one reason why Sidious gets rid of him.) If you think the current announcer in JKII multiplayer sucks (The Force is (not) with you"), you MUST check out this thread. http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Joka'ar Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Does this liitle Ysalimiri does exist in EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Angel Posted July 1, 2002 Author Share Posted July 1, 2002 Yeah, Raven got the ysalamiri idea from Timothy Zahn's book, Heir to the Empire, pretty much the most famous and liked book in the EU. (By the way, I'm not a HUGE fan of EU, but I have to say that Heir to the Empire and it's sequels are masterpieces. They should have gotten him to write the script for Episode I (it'd be better than the existing one, anyway.) Anyway, the ysalamiri is a slug-like thing that, as you probably know, it's natural defense in the wild is creating a bubble that sort of deletes the existence of the Force. This is how Grand Admiral thrawn, the leader of the Empire at this time, controls a Dark Jedi as his pawn. When Luke was in a jungle surrounded by these things, he couldn't sense the Force at all. He felt like a normal, non Force-sensitive guy. I was joking about the thought of Palpatine carrying a ysalamiri with him, but the idea DOES have merit. After all, I think Lucas is trying to bridge the gap between canon and EU (he added Aayla Secura, an EU character, for one thing, and the double-bladed saber, another EU concept.) The Council (to my knowledge) doesn't know about ysalamiri, and that would explain why Yoda says "The Dark Side clouds everything." Oh, now that I think about it, this is another reason why Sidious would beat Yoda. If only one or two Sith can cloud the judgement of the entire Jedi Order, Sidious must be a powerhouse of Dark Side energy. And besides, if Yoda could indeed beat Sidious, then why must he spend his life in a swamp area, instead of going out and whipping Sidious? If you ask me, it's because Yoda's afraid that Sidious would open a can of Whoop-Ass on him (that's a real drink, you know.) Seriously, though, I wouldn't say that Yoda would go down in 3 seconds, he'd put up a good fight, but Sidious would win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Joka'ar Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Hmm....you got a point, maybe Plapatine is really carrying a Ysamiri if he is Sidious. Make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Angel Posted July 1, 2002 Author Share Posted July 1, 2002 Hey, hey, our avatars match! I just noticed that (or did you change it just now?) Anyway, I wasn't really serious about the ysalamiri, but it's still a valid arguement point for those who believe they're the same person. As you can see in the Is Palpatine really Sidious thread, almost everyone agrees. But, like I said before, no more on that arguement. I want to keep the Sidious vs. Yoda topic alive in hopes that people will realize that Sidious is the MASTER, or at least, will acknowledge that he'd put up a good fight. By the way, Lord Joka'ar, who did you vote for? In fact, to restart the debate again, I'll say that Sidious is THE BOMB and will mercilessly butcher Yoda with his saber of darkness and take his soul Mortal Kombat-style. (He he, just messing with the Yoda fans/Sidious haters/etc. Yoda supporters can proceed with the flaming now.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Joka'ar Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Well, about the avatar, I need to explain from the beginning. -I saw SW E IV,V,VI looooong ago,but doesnt seem to like it. -Played JK:JO II(recommended by friends)HELL,it a GREAT game! -Watch SW Esp II in cinema with my friends(GREAT MOVIE)couldnt able to express with words:c3po: -Starting to trace the old source of SW. -Founded EPS I TPM.Cool! I like the way DM handling OB1 and QGJ,damn cool I say! -Founded the rest EPs IV,V,VI(quite disappointing the Saber Duel)wat can I say, it was film loong ago with old equipments -Picking the avatar,founded Darth Maul hologram pic,nice,so put it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCanr2d2 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Hey, I've heard the argument of "They put it on the back of the Episode 1 DVD/Video that Sidious is Palpatine" which I respond to with "Would GL, if he is anywhere near smart, going to reveal a major plot point on the back of a DVD/Video release?" Everything with GL is true, unless he makes you believe otherwise in the next movie. I have an 85-90% feeling that Sidious is Palpatine, but that 10-15% tells me not to trust GL, that he may not be the same person, and the opening scenes of Episode 3 may have some shocking revelation, after the usual spaceship and pan to a planet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teutonicknight Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Yoda: Why? Because the light side always wins!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Angel Posted July 2, 2002 Author Share Posted July 2, 2002 That's not true. Darth Maul killed Qui-Gon, Vader killed Obi-Wan, Tyranus owned Anakin and Obi-Wan. Plus, two Sith (Sidious and Vader) took out all the Jedi in the galaxy but 2, and those two are wasting their lives in hiding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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