1.04 (a rant for Raven)

[CapitalB]

why in the fudge, does a god damn HEAVY backswing do less damage than a normal forward heavy attack...

 

then whats the point of a backswing?! Half the time it won't even connect and it's highly blockable. Bring back full damage for backswing plz. It's a SPECIAL MOVE now shouldn't it do something special? Instead of leave you immobolized and do 30 Damage? that's bull ****. The medium jump special does more damage! Oh but you can pivot with that? That's ****ing stupid, get your **** together you assclowns.

 

Fix the croutch moonwalk as well plz...

 

DFA is still messed up, someone can still die just from touching it when they are on the ground.

 

 

UGHHH 1.04 killed this game.

[Elegy]

[Master Hamlet]

1.04 killed this game for people who want to do nothing but get fast kills so they can win. NOT for people who just want to play the game, and have fun playing.i do find however, that its impossible to find a good 1.04 ffa server.

 

now, that being said, whose fault is this? is it ravens fault for fixing a BUG in the game that people EXPLOITED. hell no it isn't. it's the peoples fought for ownly caring about winning. im not so hard headed as to keep playing 1.04 and refuse 1.03 just because bs whores will ruin the game, ill just play duels again, because ffa in 1.03 is just plain not fun. anyway, its the pig headed people that have ruined jk2, ALREADY, not raven or anyone else. i played Rogue spear for 3 years, and its taken them 3 years to get as assholish as the people playing jk2 ALREADY ARE. so hf with ur desecrated game kids.

[crazyplaya73]

Bring back full damage for backswing plz. It's a SPECIAL MOVE now shouldn't it do something special?

Raven I think nurfed backsweep too much. By simply stopping people from spinning and getting rid of the quick pull knockdowns was enough to make it fair but they also lowered damage too much. See when you backsweep in 104 with default setting you are totally vulnerable. So there is no more reward for the risk. So they basically removed it from the game.

 

Less moves = less variety = less fun.

 

Well come play on my server if you like to have powerful sabers where all the moves are powerful again including backsweeps. Fast action and lots of fun. No whiners allowed!

[Daishin]

Couldn't agree more, Elegy.

 

[Raze]

Hey you guys migth wanna realize that "special attacks" are EXACTLY THAT. You use them in special situations (like standing with the back to an opponent), not all the time.. This isn't Virtua Fighter III.

[NK_Zephorath]

The problem is not that they nerfed backstab, it is that the saber is too weak to do much damage. The solution is simple, increase saber damage for all stances.

 

JK2++ does this, and much more.

 

http://dev.wdonline.com

[Luc Solar]

ROFLMAO!

 

This is amazing stuff!

 

"why in the fudge, does a god damn HEAVY backswing do less damage than a normal forward heavy attack... "

 

 

:D

 

Yeah, *why* indeed...naturally TURNING YOUR BACK to your opponent and performing a RIDICULOUS, NO-LOOK-AIMLESS-POWERLESS swing BACKWARDS should be UNBLOCKABLE and do a HELLUVALOT more DAMAGE than some weak dfa or a heavy two handed swing in your face!?! Yeah dude! Right on!!

 

..........not.

 

LOL! This is just too funny..

[CapitalB]

anyone who says that the backswing is CHEAP or AN EXPLOITED MOVE. Is a god damn mother ****ing IDIOT. Ok you ****s the backswing is the EASIEST MOVE TO DODGE. What the ****, if you can't dodge it you're ****ing retarded. Plain and simple. Only ****ing noobs complain about how a move it too cheap. Oh yeah the matches were to fast for you? Get some ****ing skills you pathetic loser. Needing patches to make you better. Sorry, realy life dosen't provide patches when something is hard or someone "EXPLOITS" something. Raven is a bunch of idiots.

[Daishin]

[Master Hamlet]

the backstab is easy to dodge in a duel situation, yes. but, imagine ur in an ffa with 20 people, and theirs a group of aobut 7 fighting, and ALL of those people are bs whores, EXCEPT YOU. you dont stand a chance in hell. if you successfully dodge 1, theres 2 more waiting for you whever u move, since its not aimed whatsoever (no aim cuz no skill is needed to backstab) there are just bs's flying around EVERYWHERE.

[crazyplaya73]

Yeah, *why* indeed...naturally TURNING YOUR BACK to your opponent and performing a RIDICULOUS, NO-LOOK-AIMLESS-POWERLESS swing BACKWARDS should be UNBLOCKABLE and do a HELLUVALOT more DAMAGE than some weak dfa or a heavy two handed swing in your face!?! Yeah dude! Right on!!

 

Actually if you look at the animation this isn't really the case that it "should be weak". He spins around putting more speed into the swing then you could get by chopping down with both hands. Over hand chop should be more powerfull but not by very much.

 

And if you really think about it the a back sweep should be strong because in the back sweep you turn around gathering more momentum. And there has to be a reward for the risk of doing this move.

 

Don't think of the back sweep as a back attack its just that due to the limitation on buttons raven made it back + attack to perform it. Its really a spinning sweep.

 

Good players won't back up blindly looking for lucky kills. Thart is a very narrow and self serving view of it. What about people who DFA or blue lunge all over the place looking for easy kills. It doiesn't make these moves bad its just that n00bs will spam these moves trying ot get lucky. So what if your as skilled as you think you are then you should have no problem mowing them down due to their predictability.

 

Less moves = less variety = less fun.

[Agen]

I gotta do it too...

[Daishin]

Originally posted by Agen_Terminator

I gotta do it too...

 

No pity.

[KnightHawk420]

Originally posted by Raze

Hey you guys migth wanna realize that "special attacks" are EXACTLY THAT. You use them in special situations (like standing with the back to an opponent), not all the time.. This isn't Virtua Fighter III.

 

Right on the head with this one. A special move should be like a special play in football. For example a "punt" is a type of special play. A particular move to handle a particular situation....

 

 

Me thinks others think it should be like a Dragon uppercut from streetfighter or something.

[Darth Kaan]

:violin:

 

In the spirit of Johnny Bravo...

 

Quick! Everyone do the Monkey!

 

:monkey4:

[Haemon]

Originally posted by crazyplaya73

Actually if you look at the animation this isn't really the case that it "should be weak". He spins around putting more speed into the swing then you could get by chopping down with both hands. Over hand chop should be more powerfull but not by very much.

 

And if you really think about it the a back sweep should be strong because in the back sweep you turn around gathering more momentum. And there has to be a reward for the risk of doing this move.

 

Don't think of the back sweep as a back attack its just that due to the limitation on buttons raven made it back + attack to perform it. Its really a spinning sweep.

 

Do yourself a really big favor and never get into a fight. Infact don't even bother with boxing, karate, fencing or anything of the sort. Reasons? I'll list them:

1.NEVER TURN YOUR BACK

2.Swings are hardly effective. You're supposed to come straight at your opponent.

3.NEVER TURN YOUR BACK

4.Yeah you'd think I big overly wide swing would kill in one hit but then again wouldn't most hits with light sabre kill too?

5.NEVER TURN YOUR BACK

 

There you have it 5 good reasons why backswing is not only impractical but retarded.

[crazyplaya73]

There you have it 5 good reasons why backswing is not only impractical but retarded.

 

If you block it or aviod it and one should be able to in most situations then your right but if you don't then you die. It is very easy to counter backsweep and you admit that so what is the problem with backsweep.

 

Look - if I swing a bat at you of course the fastest way for me to connect is a straight on blow but if I catch you off gaurd and swing all the way around and build up momentum then it will hurt more yes? Now do you understand?? Yes it is easy to counter and yes you are very dumb if you use it all the time.

 

The point is that they did not have to lower the damage so much for this move since they fixed the problem of the spinning and the easy knock downs? And the lower damage is not realistic. Wether you agree or not try to address the issue of the argument.

[Agen]

[CapitalB]

Originally posted by KnightHawk420

 

Right on the head with this one. A special move should be like a special play in football. For example a "punt" is a type of special play. A particular move to handle a particular situation....

 

 

Me thinks others think it should be like a Dragon uppercut from streetfighter or something.

 

you are a moron....

 

ok yeah its a special move... BUT IT LEAVES YOU OPEN FOR ATTACK. It's the counter-balance to the special. Now its just weak as ****, AND YOU'RE OPEN FOR ATTACK. It's stupid.

 

Ok, to Haemon, you are also a huge moron, and a nerd... ok yeah lets compare this game to real ****ing life. You actually think, someone would get into a fight after playing jk2 and turn their back? ITS A ****ING GAME, ITS NOT ****ING REAL LIFE YOU DUMB****.

 

once again, anyone who says the backswing was cheap, is a god damn pussy. Thats it, just a pussy. Who can't handle competition.

[Solo4114]

Wanna know what's special about backstab now? You are attacking when your back is turned. That's pretty damn special when you think about it.

 

Essentially the game (and Raven) is saying the following:

 

"You are a Jedi. Not only do you have superfantastico force powers that let you protect or attack, you also have a heightened level of awareness. Towards that end, even when someone attacks you with your back turned, you can perform a precise strike on them, despite the fact that, under normal circumstances, you'd have to turn around to do it."

 

Think about it for a second, before you commence a-whinin'.

 

When you're playing with guns on a server, can you successfuly point your gun behind you while still facing forward, shoot, and hit an enemy? OF COURSE NOT.

 

Nor can you pivot on your feet, take aim, and fire a precise shot at an opponent standing behind you. Instead, when your back is turned while holding a gun, if someone shoots you or sabre's you, you're history.

 

So the mere fact that the backstab move even exists at all is pretty damn special. It's an evasion move. A last ditch defense when being attacked from behind. Rather than spend precious seconds having to run away and turn around, or flip over the attacker and possibly miss them, you can simply pivot around and whack 'em with your lightsabre. If you catch them winding up for a swing, you'll hit them. If they're just standing there, they'll block you, AS THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO. Imagine if you're the guy standing behind the backstabber. You either haven't swung yet, or have just finished delivering a blow and have recovered to your en guarde position. Now, why in the hell would you NOT be able to block a guy who spins around and executes what would essentially be a wildly targeted move? You already have your sabre poised for any action, defensive or offensive. He has simply spun around and swung, praying to god, yoda or whoever that he actually lands a hit. You SHOULD be able to block the move, if you're in position to do so. Now, if you're winding up for that big overhead chop, with your sabre waaaaay back over your head, there's also no reason why your opponent (who happens to be a force wieldin' BMF Jedi) should not be able to at least spank you with a glancing blow.

 

There is simply no logical, justifiable reason why the backstab should be a killing blow, unless ALL strikes from a sabre are instantly lethal. Such a move should be merely a delaying tactic, used to gain a little breathing room and put you back, at least, on the defensive, as opposed to having NO defenses whatsoever. So, if they actually reduced the damage to 30, kudos to them. The whole notion of people spamming pull/push/kick and that move was ridiculous in the first place and totally destroyed the sense of immersion that you can get in this game.

 

Nerfing the damage for the backstab was absolutely necessary and a wise move, because it makes SENSE. Even if you ARE spinning around and winding up for a powerful hit, the likelihood of being able to actually land that blow is fairly slim under normal circumstances, if your opponent is not a total feeb. Throw in the ability to use the force, and you have a chance of not only gaining a good defensive posture, but also dealing out a little bit of damage to the opponent.

 

Finally, consider the following: you can piss and moan all you want about it. Raven and Lucasarts have spoken (so to speak). I think the trend is a move away from 1.02. If you don't like that, great! Guess what. You can STILL play 1.02. I'm sure there are plenty of people who say, "Awwww, man! Bring back 1.02! That r0x0r3D!!!" or what have you. Those of us who happen to enjoy a BALANCED game, on the other hand, will go and play 1.04 (as tweaked by a few cvars). Yeah, the damage is low if you play an as-is version of 1.04. At least, it's low for FFA (it's great for duels). But that can easily be tweaked, and will be tweaked.

 

So, essentially, for those of you complaining about how 14m3 or whatever the new patch is, because backstab doesn't instantly kill people anymore, I have VERY little sympathy for you. Try learning a few other moves, or learn to fight without any of the special moves. If you don't depend on any single style or stance, no amount of patching will ever reduce you to the rank of n00b again. Besides, most of us could see this change coming a mile away. I think it was pretty safe to say that if Raven was going to release another patch, THIS move would be at the top of their list, since they PUBLICLY STATED that not fixing it was an oversight on their part, and that it was supposed to be fixed in 1.03. Thus, you folks have essentially been exploiting a bug. Plain and simple. Sorry if this ruins your fun, but honestly, if you try to learn a few more moves instead of picking one particulr maneuver and doing it over and over and over, you MAY actually have a lot more fun.

 

Oh, and CapitalB, you might want to do one or more of the following:

 

1.) Calm down.

2.) Switch to decaf.

3.) No more eightballs before breakfast.

4.) Buy a book called "How to Win Friends and Influence People."

5.) Read it.

6.) When someone challenges your position on a subject, don't fly off the handle, go off on a rant and start calling the *******, fags, losers, morons, mother***ing idiots, etc. Instead, try defending your position with logic and clearly thought out points in support of your argument. You will likely find that it is received in a much more favorable light, and that people will actually respect what you have to say, as opposed to simply writing you off as some frustrated Ub3r 1337 hAx0r d00d who's got a bug up his ass and a bone to pick because he is 1337 no more.

[rolsen]

Originally posted by CapitalB

 

you are a moron....

 

ok yeah its a special move... BUT IT LEAVES YOU OPEN FOR ATTACK. It's the counter-balance to the special. Now its just weak as ****, AND YOU'RE OPEN FOR ATTACK. It's stupid.

 

Ok, to Haemon, you are also a huge moron, and a nerd... ok yeah lets compare this game to real ****ing life. You actually think, someone would get into a fight after playing jk2 and turn their back? ITS A ****ING GAME, ITS NOT ****ING REAL LIFE YOU DUMB****.

 

once again, anyone who says the backswing was cheap, is a god damn pussy. Thats it, just a pussy. Who can't handle competition.

 

I would like to direct you to the forum code of conduct, which you have just violated numerous times.

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64363

[Owen Yu]

Can we have one rantless day each month? Please?! Thanks!

[Daishin]

Originally posted by Owen Yu

Can we have one rantless day each month? Please?! Thanks!

Good luck.. =\

[Areoch]

Thanks for that good post Solo4114 nice to see there are some intelligent people left on the forums.

 

I don't like nerfing but I can see the reason behind it considering how people act.

You can't give people nice powerful things, they can't control themselves and use moderation.. Even if you gave people 100 moves they'll ignore 99 of them and use the 1 that is the quickest easiest way to beat someone and time and time again we've seen people are willing to do the most ridiculous things to win.

 

1.02

Good: Saber battles were quick, dodging was a must and if you timed it right you could block...maybe.

Bad: People Use nothing but red, drawing battles out to 15 minutes of chickensh*t people who don't have the nerve to face each other and have a close battle. Force matches get drawn out because people just use heal/drain like water. People use DFA every other swing again drawing out battles to a long bullfight match with people DFAing and spinning like a blender, killing everything with one touch, at least you had the 0.1 second to counterattack.

 

Patch> DFA is balanced, still one hit kill but now you have to actually aim it. heal and drain get neutered badly, absorb gets a boost so now you have to listen for it. Raven assuming people thought that single player was better than multiplayer, decided to lower the damage and increase blocking so people would have more toe to toe battles and not be afraid to get up to each other anymore.

 

Wrong

 

1.03

New move on the street is the backstab but not even that bad when compared to backsweep at least backstab you have a second or two of warning and counterattack time but with sweep + yaw with the values in the several hundred thousand, you got yourself a blender of 360 degree 1 touch death. I doubt that Raven couldn't even fathom what not fixing one little bug could do. People running backwards holding down attack. People spining 180 degrees in a middle of a face to face battle. Instead of people going close to close you still have to play like 1.02 hit and run attacks or else they might get you with a BS. Later enter the Airlunge, people use this so much I've actually seen people do lunge instead of walking. Why walk when you can take the lunge express? I've seen battles where people's only move was backflip followed by a lunge repeated 100x over. Arn't we all having *great* fun?

 

patch> Neutered BS moves completely and fixed the bug (YES BUG) with pull being unblockable, you can only knock a person down when he doesn't have the force to counter it. Which is how it was originally intended and how it should be. When I put three points in push/pull I expect to block at least when I am rationing my mana not just simply fall over anyway. And they gave gunners more ammo for their weapons. No complaints there.

 

People say the new spam move is kicking. Last time I checked, saber had 24 moves (eight for each stance). Notice how people don't use them? People complain about the saber being a toy but you know g_saberdamagescale fixes that so why complain at all? Hell set it to 3 and ALL moves even BS do high damage.

 

Plus notice how the 30 or so people who complained about raven not caring, not making a patch not listening to complaints and whatnat and doomsaying and all that crap now pretty much shut up. Why don't you thank raven for making a patch at all you ungrateful pricks. Hell give the game a chance and since they did release a 1.04 at all against all odds shows that they are still working on the game and are likely going about to hammer out the problems. The game wouldn't have changed a single bit from 1.02 if noone complained, well this is what you get when you complain they listen and change the game and they you yell,whine bitch and moan when they do change the game and then when they don't you whine bitch and moan even more.

 

Sorry for getting a little angry there and perhaps a little offtopic.