Darth Vigrid Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Come one oreo, you are obviously lying. These last 2 posts by oddjob offer definetive proof. There is no way you would be able to create a model so geometrically equivalent to the HL one. Perhaps you tried to create a Neo model from scratch, gave up, then decided to steal the Trinity. Stunts like this is what causes good modelers to leave this forum. Just admit defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob: A-Team Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 Wow, still no reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy867 Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 you know, its actually possible, but the chances are very slim, the only time i have seen this done was during the creation of the Episode 1 map... this one guy was going to make amovie accurate version, and when he saw LivingDeadJedis, he swore he was looking at his own version... pretty spooky stuff, seeing as how the guy had NEVER released anything, and we all know how good LDJ is at mapping... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreo Posted August 15, 2002 Author Share Posted August 15, 2002 yes he still hasnt replied yet... i wonder if he is still using the address he posted on his site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreo Posted August 15, 2002 Author Share Posted August 15, 2002 o and that part A... there IS an answer to that... a pretty obvious one too... im amazed u cant figure that out... since u seem to be such a 'great' modeler those parts are for the torso... and the arm... JK2 uses those parts for dismemberment... and u MUST have those parts as different things... Â o and i wont be answering anymore things until i get response from that guy, im only doing this so u would shut up, i dont even care about wut u say u can believe wutever u want, but if i can get that guy to shut u up then fine ill do it... o and more about part A, they r not the same size, not the same angle, and not the same radius and not even the same shape... and this is the last time im gonna repeat i never used any mesh smooth unless ur dumb or something if u want try to apply a god damn meshsmooth to that model of urs and look at wut meshsmooth would really make it look like... and as usual u failed to reply to any of my questions as well as understanding the fact that EVEN IF i got permission its still my model, itll just have credits for that guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grafox Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 OMFG, after reading the whole thread twice, I can't stop laughing at you oreo. Even after Oddjob has posted the wireframe-overlays you still won't admit you stole it with out asking the original author for persmission to use it. Â I really don't like people like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob: A-Team Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 Originally posted by oreo o and that part A... there IS an answer to that... a pretty obvious one too... im amazed u cant figure that out... since u seem to be such a 'great' modeler those parts are for the torso... and the arm... JK2 uses those parts for dismemberment... and u MUST have those parts as different things... Â So, you are going to have the arm and torso separate EXACTLY on the tank top edge? Is that your story? First of all it's a curved edge. So you decided that when the light saber cuts off her arm. it's going to magically follow the edge of the tank top, curving at the bottom. When every other model had a fairly flat plane as the cap. And why did you build the cut point between in there for just the arm/torso from the earliest versions and none of the others? Especially when you stated on page two about 2/3 of the way down that you hadn't started capping them yet? Heh... I told you not to answer that one. Â Â Look NOBODY belives you. And you look the fool more and more every time you post. Can't you see that? Â It's best not to come to a battle of wits unarmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob: A-Team Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 Originally posted by Andy867 you know, its actually possible, but the chances are very slim, the only time i have seen this done was during the creation of the Episode 1 map... this one guy was going to make amovie accurate version, and when he saw LivingDeadJedis, he swore he was looking at his own version... pretty spooky stuff, seeing as how the guy had NEVER released anything, and we all know how good LDJ is at mapping...  Sure, if you are looking a finished, textured map using the same subject matter, they SHOULD look so similar to each other because they SHOULD look like the subject matter. Especially if they are using all the same set of textures. But once you take the textures off and look at the basic wireframe in an editor, you would be able to see all the actual differences. Because it's more than unlikely that they both would place every vert in exactly the same place so that when you lined up the two maps they would match perfectly like oreo's model with the facets showing and the HL model. Dimentions would be slightly off, some geometry would extend further where it can't be seen, etc.  Same with a model. Let me show you what I mean.  http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/fetts.jpg  Here are two models both based on Jango Fett. On the left the Jango Fett model by Corto Maltés. On the right, the Mandolorian model by António "BloodRiot" Perestrelo & Tim "Absath" Buckley. Basicly look the same. The skins are a bit different, but not by much, but the models could be the same.  Here is a look at the two model meshes. This is where their true differences are totally apparent. http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/fet_side_head.jpg http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/fet_side.jpg http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/fett_back.jpg http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/fett_front.jpg  Notice how in the side close up of the head, the heads are at two different angles. Look at the side shot. The calf on one model is back further than the other. The postures are different. Unlike oreo's and the HL model. The posture on those are exactly the same, especially the head. Notice how different the geometry in the chest area is constructed COMPLETELY different from each other. That goes for pretty much the whole thing actually. And the heads are slighly different shapes and constructed VERY differently.  I moved the jet packs off to the side so you could see the construction of the two models better. You can see that the models are plainly different models with nothing but the barest resembalence when textured in common. This is what happens when two modelers make models using the same subject matter but arrive at the same goal using their own personal techniques, and artistic vision and sense of dimention. They make basically different models that look generally the same when textured. Just like your map example, and just like oreo's Jar Jar and Anakin examples.  If oreo actually made that model the two models should look at least that different. AT LEAST. You don't accidently make models that look that similar EVER. It just doens't happen. Even if you learned from the same teacher or the same book or tutorial.  What oreo is doing is so obvious it's not even funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 Yeah, Sorry Oreo, but it's really pretty obvious that those models are the same......you should probably back down now methinks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striderx2048 Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 Screwed, you are, Oreo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leXX Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 Does this mean I don't get my Trinity model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBell Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 wow, after reading this thread i never realized how stupid i am at modeling  .....so much to learn......so little time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreo Posted August 16, 2002 Author Share Posted August 16, 2002 lexx dont worry u will, i just need to resolve this quickly... and i still insist that the model's geometry r not the same, i will take screenshots later on once i get this over with to show the 2 trinity models infact do have the amount of difference that the jango models had... u r prolly blind if u cant see it... also about the caps... uhh i did model the seperate SEGMENTS since the beginning.. CAPPING simply means sealing the ends of the SEGMENTS u retard... just cuz they r the same object color doesnt mean they r the same segment... Â o and i am still working on her, just not a public WIP once i can confirm the permission i will post a new WIP, also if i cant reach him, there wont be any other way(unless someone can give me a direct way to contact him) then ill just give him credit for the model which should still be released Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NemoX Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 Help me to understand Oreo, you keep saying that you did not steal the HL model, you say that it is an original model by you, then why are u trying to get the permission of the creator of the HL model if this is your model, and why would you give him credit for your model? Â It's pretty obvious you are taking credit for someone elses work, and you refuse to apologize for it, even though Oddjob has proved conclusively your model is the same as the HL model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob: A-Team Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 Anything you do now is too little, too late. You can try and make future version more and more different(although I doubt your ability as a modeler to be able to actually DO that. I'd bet I could still find a way to prove it no matter how much work you did) it's the earlier versions that count. Sure, eventually, you could make the two models look as different as the Jango Fett models. EVENTUALLY. But that won't change the past. They are still the same model from the beginning. Any changes you make now just make you look like you are trying to hide the fact that you stole the model. Especially when you continue to ignore the fact that I am obviously not talking about future versions that are yet to be modified. Â also about the caps... uhh i did model the seperate SEGMENTS since the beginning.. CAPPING simply means sealing the ends of the SEGMENTS u retard... just cuz they r the same object color doesnt mean they r the same segment... Â I don't even know what you are trying to say here. Of COURSE the caps are just the ends of the segments. I never said otherwise. But you failed to address why you made the torso/arm segments separate exactly on the tank top line. You specifically ignored what my ACTUAL argument was and attacked something that I didn't even argue at all. That's called a 'Straw Man' fallacy. And for all you people out there that haven't taken a logic class, a fallacy is, it's a defect in an argument arising from some source other than merely false premise. That particular type of fallacy, the 'Straw Man' fallacy is one where the arguer distorts the other persons argument and attacks the distorted version rather than the ACTUAL arguement. What oreo has just done is a classic example. Another example of it in this exchange is when he continues to provide 'proof' using later, more modified versions of the model while ingoring the fact that the earlier versions are what are exactly the same and where I am basing my arguments. Â And to oreo again: If you release that model without his permission, then it's just as bad as if you didn't bother admit you stole the model. Either get his permission or don't release it. And just because you WILL try to, I am going to provide a link to this thread to every JKII model host I can find and show them why they shouldn't host any models made by you. What you are doing is WRONG. Plain and simple. Â Denial, it's not just a river in Egypt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBell Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 my eyes hurt from reading so much  How r u able to type sooooo much without passing out oddjob? I guess you r a god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob: A-Team Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 I learned to type fast while playing 1st person shooters online. You have to be quick to get a couple of insults in without dying back in the Q2 days.  BakerS8er said: "if you cant see it,then perhapes trust a real modeler    are you questioning to authentisity of this model.... or if someone a REAL modeler??  hmmmmm confused i am  Now, hopefully you can see that I was both questinging the authentisity of his model AND if he was a real modeler. And when I said 'if you can't see it, then perhaps trust a real modeler' I was refering to me and any other modeler of note that happens to read this thread. And there have been a few. And they all agree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBell Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 ohhh ok, cause i was thinkin you were questioning the people who were looking at this model and saying " they dont look the same" as fake modelers...... my bad  The things im gonna miss in these forums when i go back to school...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Vertex Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 One day Odd-job might be a successful politican. Or some Owner of a very prosperous company. You have expectional debating skills, and you able to prove your point maturly without rows ***********************. Keep it up man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBell Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 ya.... after reading this thread and painfully adjusting my vision, i dont think i have ever read a single reply from Odd Job that was BS. Everything he said actually made sense. Rather than him just cussing and saying pointless crap. Â Great JOB Odd JOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twins of Doom Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 sorry i haven't checked this post in awhile    but i was taking a close look at both wireframes...and i see a LOT of differences  the legs on the white is fatter the whole white wireframe is a lot wider  the chest is also different in a lot of aspects between the two...it is hard to believe that anybody ever thought they were the same!    come on people, stop with the BS and let him make his damn model   if you aren't going to make a trinity model than shut the **** up and let those who actually are doing something get to work without having to put up with this BS  i don't know about you but i want matrix models for jk2 why are you trying to ruin the prospect of a matrix model for the rest of us!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBell Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 we arent ruining it for the rest of you... He specifically stated he was still going to continue to model Trinity whether we thought it was a copy of not...so its not our fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob: A-Team Posted August 17, 2002 Share Posted August 17, 2002 Originally posted by Twins of Doom but i was taking a close look at both wireframes...and i see a LOT of differences  the legs on the white is fatter the whole white wireframe is a lot wider  the chest is also different in a lot of aspects between the two...it is hard to believe that anybody ever thought they were the same!  come on people, stop with the BS and let him make his damn model  if you aren't going to make a trinity model than shut the **** up and let those who actually are doing something get to work without having to put up with this BS  i don't know about you but i want matrix models for jk2 why are you trying to ruin the prospect of a matrix model for the rest of us!?!?  So you are just one of those completely self-centered, selfish people that doesn't care how they get something as long as you get it, right? You couldn't care less if the model was stolen or not, as long as you get your model. Screw the original author and every other real modeler that puts hours of their free time into their work, as long as you get your model. Nice attitude.  But some of us real modelers don't like the idea of what we do being cheapened by some hack that just takes somebody else's model and passes it off as their own. It truely baffles me how people can have your attitude. Almost more than it baffles me how oreo can do what he's doing. Nobody should get any Matrix model if the only way it can be obtained is by theivery and lying. But you seem not to care as long as you get what you want. There is a word for that type of person: sociopath. A person without concience. Is that you? Do you honestly have no sense of right and wrong?  On top of that, the reasons you gave for them not looking alike completely miss my points. It's as if you haven't even read the thread. You can push and pull verts and turn edges here and there but, to the trained eye of a modeler, it's obvious that they are the same. What you suggest makes them different is as simple as scaling a few verts or even moving a few. And it doesn't change the underlying construction.  I am not talking about the basic shape. Or how one is fatter than the other or thicker in some parts. The things you sugges that make them look different aren't even a part of my arguement so don't even need to be considered by anybody. I am talking about how each vert lines up with the next creating edges of each polygon, and in turn each polygon being a certain shape and a certain size and a certain place. THAT'S what those models have in common. I am talking about how the general posture is exactly the same. The tilt of the head, the shape of the head, etc. That's what makes them the same model. If you honestly can't comprehend the case that I have laid out, then perhaps you are not qualified enough to comment, to which I suggest that you get a good, talented, and KNOWLEGABLE modeler you trust to come here and review this entire thread and then trust his judgement.  Here's some MORE pictures illustrating my point.  http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/triside2.jpg  Are you honestly going to tell me that the fact that oreo's is 'fatter' makes them totally different models?  Here, have a closer look at the head: http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trisideclose.jpg And here is one where I added some red lines to really show you how they are EXACTLY THE SAME MODEL. http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trisidecloselines.jpg  But, like I said. Don't trust me, as obviously you don't. Or maybe you do and just want the model no matter what.... But let's assume, that it's just a lack of trust and understanding. Ask any well known modeler from this community you like to come here and voice their opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreddnott Posted August 17, 2002 Share Posted August 17, 2002 Ouch. Talk about losing respect for certain people! Â If anybody can successfully defend oreo at this point (seeing as he's obviously completely, absolutely incapable of being coherent on his own), I will be extremely impressed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreo Posted August 17, 2002 Author Share Posted August 17, 2002 umm i wasnt attacking a part that u didnt argue about... if u actually read i already answered u about y i did the segments like that cuz its the TORSO and the ARM... and i specifically made sure the joint between the torso and the arm was a perfect flat circle so that it would cap properly... but u decided to assume everything(that i didnt segment other parts and that the joint was wrong to be able to be capped) and argued that i should not have done that which is total BS... because the torso is suppose to be that way... and also i already answered y im contacting the author its so i can shut him up, if contacting him and officially giving credit to that guy as my 'base model referece' can shut him up then so be it, i just need to get this done with so i can work on my other 2 matrix models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.